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      /  Anything new on the TiNA?
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Yssing 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 3-Nov-2013 20:58:52
#21 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 1019
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

ofcourse and its understandable. I was in the same situation, but after a talk to my boss it worked out.
But yes, tread carefully

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asymetrix 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 3-Nov-2013 23:23:42
#22 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 856
From: United Kingdom

@cdimauro

I understand. It would be of great benefit if you could document your ideas, surely just writing your thoughts down in your spare time - you boss cannot object ?

yes, real life is most important.

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majsta 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 4-Nov-2013 10:34:03
#23 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Dec-2010
Posts: 22
From: Unknown

I don't understand all of this. Amiga scene is not small, every product can be sold in hundreds or maybe thousands of pieces. But If I can say almost every Amiga related project contains wrong principles from the start. Maybe I just don't understand how you can start some project and then give up at some point. Complete idea that nothing works should bring new motivation. Happiness when something is solved can't be compared to anything. On Amiga scene you have bunch of published block diagrams, schematics, codes but almost nothing is finished because at some point people lost interest. For every project you don't need to invest lot of money. Modern development boards can be ordered for 100USD and that is only investment you need to start any Amiga hardware related project.

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Seiya 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 4-Nov-2013 11:32:31
#24 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1416
From: Italia


Quote:

majsta wrote:
I don't understand all of this. Amiga scene is not small, every product can be sold in hundreds or maybe thousands of pieces.


do you really really sure ot this?

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OlafS25 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 4-Nov-2013 11:38:51
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5758
From: Unknown

@Seiya

if you can sell a couple of hundred computer-systems for 3000 ...

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majsta 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 4-Nov-2013 12:28:16
#26 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Dec-2010
Posts: 22
From: Unknown

@Seiya

So far I have proved everything I said. Let's say that to the end of this year 300 of my Amiga 600 accelerators will be send to the users, for A500 I cant imagine how much will be ordered maybe few times more. For new products,standalone machines, you can count on few others groups of people:
1. those tired from x86 technologies, wanting something new
2. users from amiga classic community wanting new look, old feeling but faster
3. group of people who left amiga scene 15 years ago

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cdimauro 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 4-Nov-2013 20:39:20
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
Right now I think that to continue with it an Amiga chipset expert is needed. But it's clear that if no one is found,

as if there was no minimig core that runs happily on number of devices, the problem is everyone tries to develop everything from scratch rather to distribute it.

We started from the Minimig DE1 (or 2; I don't remember now) core, not from scratch.

Quote:
its better that tina and natami are declared dead, no false hopes, no disappointments.

I'm not the project owner. I cannot do it.

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cdimauro 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 4-Nov-2013 20:51:11
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@NomadOfNorad

Quote:

NomadOfNorad wrote:
Then what we need to do is make sure all these projects document all their development so far, that is, they need to publish to the web or to some public repository all the technical schematics so far developed in these previous projects, so that there IS no need to remount from scratch on the next one, they can just build on what's already been done.

Right.

All my ideas and the chipset definition are mostly on amigacoding.de or the TINA forums, and they cover pretty everything.

I only left one idea about doubling the available bandwidth for a Cyclone V system, but it cannot be applied to the 99 evaluation boards that are available and used by some developers.

I had some other ideas about special graphics mode that can save bandwidth while providing very good quality, but I cannot disclose them anymore. However there are some hints spread in what I've already written in amigacoding.de; may be someone can figure out how they work.

Quote:
Thing is, can we track down another potential chipset expert? Maybe one who's not at the moment paying attention to the Amiga community, but would come if notified of this void left by the current guy leaving the project? Or is this potentially far enough along that maybe we don't need AS expert an expert to take if from here on this current project, with maybe some guidance from other people who each know a little bit about different parts of the Amiga chipset?

While putting together several minds could be a good solution on the paper, the experience that I had especially in amigacoding.de shown that it's better to have a single person which, after evaluating all the different ideas, traces the road and takes decisions.
That's because there are different, sometimes VERY different opinions, and without a clear leadership that decides what to do, I thought it could be very difficult to go ahead.

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amigadave 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 4-Nov-2013 20:59:10
#29 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1622
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@Seiya

if you can sell a couple of hundred computer-systems for 3000 ...


I think that number is closer to 400 and growing larger still, but there is no official statement about how many X1000 systems have been sold, or how many more will be built. Plus now there is the possibility of buying only the Nemo motherboard from 2 different distributors, and building your own X1000 system from your own parts, so I imagine that this will increase the number of X1000 systems further.

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cdimauro 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 4-Nov-2013 21:00:02
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote:
@cdimauro

ofcourse and its understandable. I was in the same situation, but after a talk to my boss it worked out.
But yes, tread carefully

@asymetrix

Quote:

asymetrix wrote:
@cdimauro

I understand. It would be of great benefit if you could document your ideas, surely just writing your thoughts down in your spare time - you boss cannot object ?

yes, real life is most important.

My manager is a very nice and wise person. We talked a lot about this problem and he explained me some cases that happened in the past in similar situations. He hasn't absolutely forced me to decide to leave the project. He left me thinking about what to do. In the end I decided that an hobby isn't worth the risk to lose the job of a life...

As I stated previously, I documented almost everything of my ideas; I hope that they can be useful to some Amiga-on-FPGA projects.

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cdimauro 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 4-Nov-2013 21:14:18
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@majsta

Quote:

majsta wrote:
I don't understand all of this. Amiga scene is not small, every product can be sold in hundreds or maybe thousands of pieces. But If I can say almost every Amiga related project contains wrong principles from the start. Maybe I just don't understand how you can start some project and then give up at some point. Complete idea that nothing works should bring new motivation. Happiness when something is solved can't be compared to anything. On Amiga scene you have bunch of published block diagrams, schematics, codes but almost nothing is finished because at some point people lost interest. For every project you don't need to invest lot of money. Modern development boards can be ordered for 100USD and that is only investment you need to start any Amiga hardware related project.

For TINA it was quite different. The company behind the project has several boards, including some of the last Cyclone V, and the idea of the owner was to give some of them to develop part of the NeoAmiga, while working to a new board which extends and removes some limits of the current boards (for example doubling the memory bandwidth; but not only).
There are some engineers that can work on it, and the company has already developed a prototype using 3 FPGAs (Cyclone III-based) based on an hold schematics. Just to say that developing a new board is not a problem. Then came the decision to abandon the Cyclone III e go directly for a Cyclone V.

What's missing now is an Amiga chipset expert that has knowledge of the platform, and has an idea clear enough on how to bring to project to the defined goals: adapting the Minimig core to the new Cyclone V board, adding AGA support, adding new features in an incremental basis.

I don't know what are the numbers on the Amiga community. Certainly thousands of users can be a good number, but the idea that I made frequenting the Amiga community is that there can 4-5 thousands of passionate amigans around, but not only of them will buy a NeoAmiga platform.

Last edited by cdimauro on 04-Nov-2013 at 09:15 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 4-Nov-2013 22:40:37
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11384
From: Norway

@cdimauro

Better if it was some thing simple like a card whit a FPGA, some ram and a CPU, so you emulate the hardware on it put gfx output in a vmem out block, that might be copied to the host system, some thing like insideout card, the joystick post might be controlled from host system or from outside by configuration the FPGA, it might work in synergy whit the host system.

This might enable to move most of hardwork of emulating a macintosh or Amiga into a reconfigurable computer, hell it can even be used as co processor to decode mp3 or video in the background. On the back side you can joystick ports, and audio out.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 05-Nov-2013 at 09:41 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 04-Nov-2013 at 10:45 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 04-Nov-2013 at 10:44 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 5-Nov-2013 6:24:42
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@cdimauro

Better if it was some thing simple like a card whit a FPGA, some ram and a CPU, so you emulate the hardware on it put gfx output in a vmem out block, that might be copied to the host system, some thing like insideout card, the joystick post might be controlled from host system or from outside by configuration the FPGA, it might work in synergy whit the host system.

This might enable to move most of handwork of emulating a macintosh or Amiga into a reconfigurable computer, hell it can even be used as co processor to decode mp3 or video in the background. On the back side you can joystick ports, and audio out.

I know that it's your idea/wish; we already discussed it in the past. But it can cover only part of the market.

I think that most people just want a little board where they can use:
- the VGA or better the HDMI to connect to their favorite monitor or TV;
- a couple of USB ports to connect their favorite keyboard and mouse;
- an SD card or USB pen where to put their ADFs and/or HD files.

This is the bare minimum, because the amigans require also more power, better performance, video, and audio, which is something they dream about from years.

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wawa 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 5-Nov-2013 8:34:42
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:
I don't know what are the numbers on the Amiga community. Certainly thousands of users can be a good number, but the idea that I made frequenting the Amiga community is that there can 4-5 thousands of passionate amigans around, but not only of them will buy a NeoAmiga platform


looking at the interest in fpgaarcade which still has not been widely delivered you can sense the actual interest, i guess.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 5-Nov-2013 9:51:24
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11384
From: Norway

@cdimauro

My idea is different it's less costly as you do not need the USB, HDMI and SDCARDS, as you have it connected to host system.
During emulation the FPGA is used as custom chips for computer your emulating, but when not emulating the FPGA can be reconfigured to be used to encode or decode video or audio.

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asymetrix 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 5-Nov-2013 12:16:46
#36 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 856
From: United Kingdom

@cdimauro

Whos project is TiNA ? can he/she confirm the project is Cancelled if at all.

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wawa 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 5-Nov-2013 12:36:51
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
My idea is different it's less costly as you do not need the USB, HDMI and SDCARDS, as you have it connected to host system.


but what does it matter if this is not a standalone computer? a pc can emulate 68k and the chipsetr just fine without need of an fpga. ppc might have problem with that, but how many users are there to address.. not many i fear.

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wawa 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 5-Nov-2013 12:40:42
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@asymetrix

Quote:
can he/she confirm the project is Cancelled if at all.


bold statements, some deadlines skipped with no comment, no information and no news otherwise. cant you judge for yourself? why do people always insist on some official statement that comes few years later best case. everyone can see projects progressing like the majstas one. forget the rest.

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asymetrix 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 5-Nov-2013 13:12:42
#39 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 856
From: United Kingdom

@wawa

Quote:

bold statements, some deadlines skipped with no comment, no information and no news otherwise. cant you judge for yourself? why do people always insist on some official statement that comes few years later best case. everyone can see projects progressing like the majstas one. forget the rest.


Simple. Respect and common courtesy to the original project owner, rather than be misquoted or to make a false statement before a confirmation that may have unforeseen or adverse effect on the project itself.

Last edited by asymetrix on 05-Nov-2013 at 01:12 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Anything new on the TiNA?
Posted on 5-Nov-2013 13:42:44
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11384
From: Norway

@wawa

Well FPGA plus a real CPU will probably get the time right every time, while a emulated CPU can depend on how complicated an instruction is to emulate, one game might run well or even better than the real thing, another game might not run as expected, but often there is latency what you see on screen is not what is happening, so you react too late to things happening on the screen.

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