@OldAmigan

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OldAmigan wrote: @agami Print is dead? That will be why there are new PRINT magazines popping up then!

Anecdotal evidence on the other hand, is alive and well.

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@agami

The evidence is there though! New magazines on sale and letters, pictures, comic strips and posters being actually printed! The internet is one thing but life does continue off it too! What constitutes a dead computer use? It's a dead platform commercially anyway but PageStream is useful for the home user and I'd say budding newsletter distributor! Is that allowed?

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@matthey

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matthey wrote: BigD Quote: God's Not Dead lol. I hadn't heard that song before. MEGA_RJ_MICAL likes to babel on like Nimrod, using his terminology which is actually Biblical. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimrod Calling God dead is admitting he exists and recognizes him as God. Calling him dead sounds dangerous considering all the stories of Godly immortality he may not know the history of like the story of Nimrod and the Tower of Babel with the location now on Google Maps. https://www.reddit.com/r/Retconned/comments/8f5qox/tower_of_babel_is_now_on_google_maps/ Surely God is no more dead than the Amiga yet people here have enough faith, including Mega_RJ_MICAL, to show up waiting for the resurrection.

Relying on faith is for quiche eaters: there's no need of a dummy for our Universe to exist and work as it is.

I suggest you to start reading the bible from the very first page and think about what it says to become aware of the bunch of illogical and inconsistent (with history, discovery, and science) things on which it's founded, so that you can then get rid of it.

As additional "bonuses", you'll get much more free time which you can spend on more important things AND your pockets will get more money instead of supporting people which decided to live by scrounging on someone else work.

@BigD

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BigD wrote: @agami The evidence is there though! New magazines on sale and letters, pictures, comic strips and posters being actually printed! The internet is one thing but life does continue off it too! What constitutes a dead computer use? It's a dead platform commercially anyway but PageStream is useful for the home user and I'd say budding newsletter distributor! Is that allowed?

Of course it's allowed. As long as you accept that it is an overall shrinking niche market catering to laggards.

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@agami

You didn't originally say that it's a shrinking market (which it obviously is), you said that it's dead, which it demonstrably isn't.

@cdimauro

Whether or not a lot of things in the bible can be discounted by science, etc, you should remember that it was written by people who didn't (couldn't) have that hindsight and relied instead on their limited understanding of the world around them.

There are also very few people, even theologians, who take Genesis or the rest of the Bible literally these days. If you don't look at it in a literal sense, things then become a little more understandable.

E.g. first it was dark, then the Lord said "Let there be light" - the Big Bang, and so on.

And by the way, no, I'm not in any sense religious.

Last edited by OldAmigan on 18-Sep-2022 at 12:16 PM.

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@OldAmigan

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OldAmigan wrote: @cdimauro Whether or not a lot of things in the bible can be discounted by science, etc, you should remember that it was written by people who didn't (couldn't) have that hindsight and relied instead on their limited understanding of the world around them.

Well, it was supposed that "god" was driving them to "The Knowledge" and give them "Wisdom"...
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There are also very few people, even theologians, who take Genesis or the rest of the Bible literally these days. If you don't look at it in a literal sense, things then become a little more understandable.

The main problem with this position is that for around 2.5 millenniums the supposed speakers on behalf of god said that the bible was inspired by their big flying buddy and it was "perfect". So, to be taken literally.

Theologians started changing it only because science proved that many things were wrong, so they were forced to introduce the "interpretation" of those writings to become more "acceptable" and "compatible" (somehow) with the reality.

Easy, right? You killed and burned people for centuries but then you had to change your position because people weren't so so so stupid anymore...
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E.g. first it was dark, then the Lord said "Let there be light" - the Big Bang, and so on.

Which is wrong because it was missing the previous context. The very first sentence of the bible is this:

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth"

which means that the Big Bang already happened...
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And by the way, no, I'm not in any sense religious.

Good for you: you don't waste time and money anymore supporting utterly bullsh*ts.

@cdimauro

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Well, it was supposed that "God" was driving them to "The Knowledge" and give them "Wisdom"...

On that we can agree.

1 Corinthians 1:25
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For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom.

'The Big Bang Theory' and 'The Theory of Evolution' haven't disproved the Bible (the clues are in the names) as they are both simply theories! Yes, they are peer reviewed by other 'scientists' who have an inherent biased need to explain away a universe that has 'Creator' written all over it! However, it is non-scientific to start with absolutes like "the universe is billons of years old"! It is also entirely unscientific to believe something can be created from nothing without there being a 'creation' moment! Where in nature does anything come into being from chaos and chance? Not once has my breakfast made itself and you'd be an unscientific fool to suggest it would ever do so even given a "millions of years" time frame! I guess you may be able to make the maths work however if you used a carefully selected constant!

Last edited by BigD on 18-Sep-2022 at 04:32 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 18-Sep-2022 at 04:30 PM.

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@BigD

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BigD wrote: @cdimauro Quote: Well, it was supposed that "God" was driving them to "The Knowledge" and give them "Wisdom"... On that we can agree. 1 Corinthians 1:25 Quote: For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom. 'The Big Bang Theory' and 'The Theory of Evolution' haven't disproved the Bible (the clues are in the names) as they are both simply theories!

And you cannot understand them even if they are "simple"...
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Yes, they are peer reviewed by other 'scientists' who have an inherent biased need to explain away a universe that has 'Creator' written all over it! However, it is non-scientific to start with absolutes like "the universe is billons of years old"! It is also entirely unscientific to believe something can be created from nothing without there being a 'creation' moment! Where in nature does anything come into being from chaos and chance? Not once has my breakfast made itself and you'd be an unscientific fool to suggest it would ever do so even given a "millions of years" time frame! I guess you may be able to make the maths work however if you used a carefully selected constant!

This proves that it's much better that you stick to religion: science is too much complex for you. Even the "simple" one...

cdimauro Quote:

And you cannot understand them even if they are "simple"...

It is simple to observe galaxy expansion and natural selection but these theories have been extrapolated to much more and the extrapolated theories taught in schools as facts. Consensus science is bad science (flawed scientific methods) as theories should never be accepted as fact while alternative theories should always be explored. I'm not advocating for teaching creation theory as fact in school science class either. I would rather see multiple theories taught as theories. Science often ignores and discounts history labeling historic reports as myths when they should be more closely studied using science. There are over 200 reports of a great flood in different cultures for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths

Some historic artifacts don't align with consensus science that thinks civilization and technology have generally improved up until today. The pyramids which are all over the world are an example or, perhaps better, what is in some of the pyramids which were reused by later Egyptian civilizations.



https://curiosmos.com/wonders-of-ancient-egypt-the-puzzling-100-ton-stone-boxes-of-saqqara/

The stone boxes are made of rose granite and diorite which is extremely hard and often cut with diamond tipped power tools today while they supposedly used primitive (bronze?) hand tools to intricately cut these with the time line of mainstream science & history. These boxes also weight 100 tons which is more than a semi truck can carry yet they managed to pull these boxes through small passageways not much bigger than the boxes and with only torch or oil lamp light despite a lack of soot on the tunnel walls from doing so. There are heavier stones like in Baalbek, Lebanon with up to 1650 ton quarried stones from BC that even the heaviest equipment today would have trouble moving but they are softer limestone and likely could be hand chiseled. There is a lot we don't know and I prefer to keep a more open mind than consensus science dictates.

cdimauro Quote:

This proves that it's much better that you stick to religion: science is too much complex for you. Even the "simple" one...

Consensus science is the easiest to follow like lemmings follow the leader. Don't push your consensus bad science on us which is practically a false religion.

Last edited by matthey on 19-Sep-2022 at 09:44 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 18-Sep-2022 at 08:29 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 18-Sep-2022 at 08:12 PM.

@matthey

Däniken already explained all this!

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@matthey

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matthey wrote: cdimauro Quote: 'The Big Bang Theory' and 'The Theory of Evolution' haven't disproved the Bible (the clues are in the names) as they are both simply theories! It is simple to observe galaxy expansion and natural selection but these theories have been extrapolated to much more and the extrapolated theories taught in schools as facts.

Don't confuse it with what religious people want to do: AFAIR it's in your country that you want to teach the creation myth as a fact...

In school where science is being taught the Big Bang and evolution are reported as theories, but explaining that there are TONs of FACTs supporting them.

Viceversa, which "facts" are supporting the bible's content? The "fact" that it was written... by someone... inspired by "god"?

BTW, you quoted me above, but that sentence came from BigD.
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Consensus science is bad science (flawed scientific methods) as theories should never be accepted as fact while alternative theories should always be explored.

Theories are used and accepted because they are supported by A LOT of facts, as explained above.

But we know that they are theories and they could be supplanted by other ones if the new ones are able to explain the same things PLUS other which the current theories aren't able to do (yes, we're aware that our current models are NOT perfect).
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I'm not advocating for teaching creation theory as fact in school science class either.

Not you, but many of your citizens want to do it, actually.
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I would rather see multiple theories taught as theories.

See above: if you have better theories than you're free to expose them and let them be peer-reviewed. If they pass it then they could become the new theories explained at school in future.
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Science often ignores and discounts history labeling historic reports as myths when they should be more closely studied using science.

Science ignores nothing. Probably they were already studied and likely rebutted because they didn't pass the review.
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There are over 200 reports of a great flood in different cultures for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths

Those reports were already studied. For example, one that might interest you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis

But the general consensus is that those reports of a great flood was due the end of the Last Glacial Period: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Period
In short, the humankind which was spread around the Globe experienced the effect of it and the event was so big and powerful that they handed down it from generation to generation until writing was invented and someone wrote it down.

As you can see, it's "enough" to be documented on a specific topic. If you like to see if something on the bible was already studied by science it's "just" a matter to make a search because it's very likely that someone already addressed the specific topic.
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Some historic artifacts don't align with consensus science that thinks civilization and technology have generally improved up until today.

You know what? Theories had to pass the peer-review process. That's the problem with non-scientific things.
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The pyramids which are all over the world are an example or, perhaps better, what is in some of the pyramids which were reused by later Egyptian civilizations. https://curiosmos.com/wonders-of-ancient-egypt-the-puzzling-100-ton-stone-boxes-of-saqqara/ The stone boxes are made of rose granite and diorite which is extremely hard and often cut with diamond tipped power tools today while they supposedly used primitive (bronze?) hand tools to intricately cut these with the time line of mainstream science & history. These boxes also weight 100 tons which is more than a semi truck can carry yet they managed to pull these boxes through small passageways not much bigger than the boxes and with only torch or oil lamp light despite a lack of soot on the tunnel walls from doing so. There are heavier stones like in Baalbek, Lebanon with up to 1650 ton quarried stones from BC that even the heaviest equipment today would have trouble moving but they are softer limestone and likely could be hand chiseled.

I've already seen a documentary a few years ago about this specific topic, which was explained by scientists in some studies.

Yes, it was very hard at the time, but it was made by some ingenious engineers of the time. AFAIR those big blocks were transported via boats (even if they were so heavy).

Unfortunately I haven't found any link to share.
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There is a lot we don't know and I prefer to keep a more open mind than consensus science dictates. cdimauro Quote: This proves that it's much better that you stick to religion: science is too much complex for you. Even the "simple" one... Consensus science is the easiest to follow like lemmings follow the leader. Don't push your consensus bad science on us which is practically a false religion.

You know what? There's no "consensus or bad science"; rather only "science" with its rigorous studies and review process.

If someone talks about "consensus science" it's only because something didn't passed this process and it got upset for that. Hey, maybe you need a better story to justify it!

This is how science works: you've to prove your statements with solid arguments to pass the review process.

That's why religion didn't survived to this process and it'll disappear (it's just a matter of time).


@kolla

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kolla wrote: @matthey Däniken already explained all this!

AAARGH! Please, don't replace religion with pseudo-religion which talks about aliens, UFOs, and so on: there's no concrete change then!

@OldAmigan

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OldAmigan wrote: @agami You didn't originally say that it's a shrinking market (which it obviously is), you said that it's dead, which it demonstrably isn't. ...

I said what I said.

It's an expression. When people proclaim that 'Privacy is Dead' or 'Chivalry is Dead', it is commentary on the general state of affairs. The concept of privacy, though diminishing in its efficacy, is not actually absolutely absent, nor is the world completely devoid of individuals who perform acts of chivalry.

It's just a colloquial, and somewhat dramatic way of reaffirming and perhaps lamenting the observed/perceived trend of continued reduction of a once prevalent and maybe even a treasured concept.

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Back to topic: Pagestream 5.1.2 works nicely on my MorphOS iMac G5.
I can do the layout of whatever I want: A bible or a scientific paper.

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I am a bit surprised this thread is still going.

I am still using Pagestream 4.1.5.6, and BME 3.2f, and AniGS very successfully.

I am compiling an English/Kanji Dictionary.
Scanning the kanji, using BME to edit them, and tracing to .dr2d format.
I can then resize the kanji to whatever size I need to use.

There Dictionary contains a section on the language, pronunciation, and mandarin, Okinawan, & cantonese influence on Martial Arts Terms.
The main section is the martial arts terms, then a section on the individual Kanji, an appendix grouping techniques, kata, styles etc, and also a Kanji Index.

Currently this is running at 630 pages, The plan is to publish it this year.
I can print the whole document to a postscript disk file, and then use AmiGS to convert it to a pdf. Which I can then send to a print company, such as Lulu, or even Amazon.

As for printing, I have a postscript printer, so I can print in full colour.

I make all my eBooks, leaflets, forms, letters and invoices from Pagestream.

I am using OS4.1FE update1 on an Amiga X5000.

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