@garethk
Not bad.

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AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

@IntuitionAmiga

There may be low quality batteries, but there are also better batteries (maybe not on ebay uk though, but the world is tad bigger than ebay uk). A proper 50W battery gives 4-5 hours of runtime if you don't run the machine maxed out..

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MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

Last edited by retro on 31-Jan-2014 at 12:14 AM.

An OS4 and/or MOS emulator for Windows on cheap standard x86 hardware is probably the most important piece of software for the Amiga community to have a bounty for. The only thing I don't like about the proposal is the DRM eg. "thou shalt not displease Hyperion" kind of attitude. This project shouldn't be beholden to the whims of Hyperion/MOS. Let's fight for the right to emulate. Let's have "computers for the masses, not the classes". In any event it would benefit them enormously as they don't make hardware and it would dramatically expand the userbase (and developer base) for their OSes. Instead of the current situation where you pay thousands over the odds for a slow underpowered desktop-only machine (OS4) or use obsolete hardware that hasn't been made for 8 years (MOS).

Last edited by Minuous on 31-Jan-2014 at 07:10 AM.
Last edited by Minuous on 31-Jan-2014 at 07:07 AM.

I think the bounty would need to be pretty huge and it's gains might be worthless in future

Better ways to get x86 support:
- port those OS:s to x86

Better ways to get affordable HW:
-bounties to create open source LowEndPPC (eg 1.4Ghz dualcore, 2GB RAM) motherboard (pico/nano/mini size) and to get it produced in 1000...10000 volume

Last edited by KimmoK on 31-Jan-2014 at 08:25 AM.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

LOL, Big bounty? It better be big enough to fund a lengthy legal battle. I doubt any of the current Hyperion or MOS IP owners would sit back and watch this happen unchallenged.

Also, an Amiga emulator that needs Windows? No thanks.

@Xmas87

Quote:

LOL, Big bounty? It better be big enough to fund a lengthy legal battle. I doubt any of the current Hyperion or MOS IP owners would sit back and watch this happen unchallenged.

Is there anything that they could do about an open source emulation of hardware like Pegasos II? I very much doubt it...

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@WolfToTheMoon

There's absolutely nothing they could do to stop someone creating an emulation of the Pegasos II other than release an update that checks if the OS is running on a emulator and then halting.

Why they would do that is anyone's guess but I wouldn't put anything past Mr Hermans.

@Zylesea

I have eBay set to search worldwide and "A1138 battery" only returns crappy batteries, 5200 mAh is the biggest (I have one of those now).

There's nothing better on Amazon either so any links you could provide will be very much appreciated.

@phoenixkonsole

Other than it needs merging, is there any reason why the AROS Gallium port doesn't have the Radeon HD drivers baked in?

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTU4MTU

@IntuitionAmiga

@WolfToTheMoon

I think that user common fairness sense should preval in this.
Having an emulator without a lock system, without paying the royalty fees to the author of the IP (both hardware an software), could favorite piracy in an already shrinked market. A true amigan would for sure wants to avoid this.

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retired

@AmigaBlitter

I'm not advocating piracy...

I'm simply saying MOS team or Hyperion cannot legally do anything against an open source Peg II emulator. You would still need to register AOS/MOS to run it on that emulator. And Peg II has long been discountinued and is not in production anymore, so no legal issues there.

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@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

A true amigan blah blah blah

Who made you the authority on what a "true Amigan" is or would want?

I've been using and developing on Amigas since 1989, does that make me a "true Amigan"?

In fact I'd rather not have that label attached to me to be honest as it has negative connotations of middle aged men who are stuck in their early teens emotionally.

@IntuitionAmiga
About ATI on AROS:
There is first some drm work needed so it is not just as easy. And since there are not so many voices (a bounty could be good motivation) it will stay as it is.

Isn't Hyperion trying to utilize Gallium too (if, for ATI or Nvidia)?

About PPC emulation:
Back in 2010 i offered TeamMorphOS to cover costs and ensure security for a MOS-Emulator. I can understand their fear about piracy but hey.. there are solutions which can't be "hacked". Online activation.

The thing is, if they don't do it by themselves they will lost control for sure as soon someone else does.
Easy rule.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 31-Jan-2014 at 01:02 PM.

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>port those OS:s to x86

This doesn't seem likely to happen in any official way, the community has already waited many years for this. Emulation is the solution to that problem. Eg. OS3.x has not been ported to x86 and likely never will be, but that hasn't held back emulation of it. The same applies to Atari ST, etc. In any event, even if OS4/MOS were ported to x86, an emulation layer would still be necessary for running PPC software.

Support for running x86 native code, a la WinUAE, could be a part of the proposed emulator and would allow a seamless migration to x86.

>bounties to create open source LowEndPPC (eg 1.4Ghz dualcore, 2GB RAM) motherboard (pico/nano/mini size) and to get it produced in 1000...10000 volume

It would still be low-run production of an overpriced machine that is mostly only good for running OS4 or MOS. So, no different really to the current situation. My dirt-cheap netbook has a higher clock speed than that. Why not target a platform that is already out there in volumes of hundreds of millions?

>Also, an Amiga emulator that needs Windows? No thanks.

Why not? Haven't you heard of WinUAE? Much as I hate to say it, an x86 Windows box is the best all-around solution for emulation, because (a) the hardware provides the best price/performance, ie. the most clock cycles available for emulators, and (b) it has the largest range of emulators, eg. there are many obscure and not-so-obscure machines
that have no emulators of them, apart from on Windows.
This solution is better than an emulator that is its own OS (eg. Amithlon), as it's much better to be able to run something under an OS rather than needing to reboot each time and boot into eg. another partition.
I can, and do, emulate dozens of platforms on this machine. But I need a separate box just for MOS, it would be good to not need a separate machine. Emulation is the way forward, no physical room for dozens of machines.

>Having an emulator without a lock system, without paying the royalty fees to the author of the IP (both hardware an software), could favorite piracy in an already shrinked market.

That's clearly nonsense, it's well established that hardware can be freely emulated, see eg. Sony vs. Connectrix. It's like saying that eg. DOSBox is illegal unless you pay IBM, ASp is illegal unless you pay Amstrad, VICE is illegal unless you pay Commodore, every NES emulator is illegal unless you pay Nintendo, etc. There's no reason to smear the emulation community with accusations of piracy. In fact if there was nil to pay for the hardware, there would logically be more money available for spending on software.

Plus, who would the "author of the hardware" be in this case anyway? Apple/Eyetech!?

@IntuitionAmiga

Quote:

Other than it needs merging, is there any reason why the AROS Gallium port doesn't have the Radeon HD drivers baked in?

I don't know at all, but maybe this is related to it?

http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=78873#forumpost78873

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@Minuous

Quote:

In fact if there was nil to pay for the hardware, there would logically be more money available for spending on software.

Oh!
Yeah, that's a great observation.

No hardware, everything runs on other software.
including raspberries.

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Tinkering with computers.

@Minuous

Quote:

Plus, who would the "author of the hardware" be in this case anyway? Apple/Eyetech!?

Primarily the chip makers, Freescale, Via and MAI, for both the AmigaOne and Pegasos lines, as the emulator will really be about those things. Perhaps with some input form Eyetech, some believe that some do not. Also perhaps with some input from Adam, I forget his company name form back then, regarding the DMA built into the MicroA1, and aftermarket applied to some XE boards. I'd be very surprised if any of them would come back to cause a problem for this emulator.

It seems PowerPC is already in the Qemu, so it wouldn't seem that Freescale would attack.

It's an old Via chip, so it wouldn't seem they would get very excited about it.

MAI is long gone.

Eyetech is long gone.

Adam's company is long gone.

Does Genesi still exist? I hadn't paid attention to if they closed shop or not.

The tricky part would be firmware. In the case of Pegasos, that was proprietary OpenFirmware implementation copyrighted/owned by Genesi, and someone would still own that. In the case of AmigaOnes, that is a combo of open-source U-Boot and proprietary code. The latter part of that copyrighted/owned by Hyperion. So it may be easier to make a legal AmigaOne clone and run Linux, but how do you legally get the thing to boot OS4, even if you buy OS4? The BIOS/Firmware "special-sauce" for OS4 isn't on the OS4 CD you can buy. Going by previous UAE theory, you can use an image if you own the same kickstart chip, the same thing would make it OK for an XE/MicroA1 owner to image his BIOS if he's not using the motherboard anymore. So, a new market for broken boards?

Then there is graphics. We'd need drivers for whatever Qemu offers. Do they have virtual Radeons, or do we need a driver coder to support whatever Qemu does have? What about sound? Networking? Etc?

Last edited by billt on 31-Jan-2014 at 04:27 PM.

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@billt

Quote:

The tricky part would be firmware. In the case of Pegasos, that was proprietary OpenFirmware implementation copyrighted/owned by Genesi, and someone would still own that. In the case of AmigaOnes, that is a combo...........................

We would not have to worry about that. Instead of 'pirating' firmware we could just
'emulate' it.

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Tinkering with computers.

@Xmas87

why legal action?

AmigaOS 3.9 run legally on WinUAE, so one day AmigaOS 4 and MOS could be run legally on PPC emulator.

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