@Signal

Quote:

Instead of 'pirating' firmware we could just 'emulate' it.

That would require reverse-engineering and then reimplementing whatever the "special-sauce" part is that enabled OS4 to run, the part that is Copyright Hyperion. In some places this is legal to do, in some places it is not. Who lives in a reversing-friendly place that is willing and capable? Would we then expect a quick uboot update to make the next OS4 update bootable, and then have to play constant-catchup every release?

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@Seiya

Quote:

AmigaOS 3.9 run legally on WinUAE, so one day AmigaOS 4 and MOS could be run legally on PPC emulator.

There are both legal and illegal ways to run OS3.9 on WinUAE. The difference is legal ownership of the copyrighted OS and ROM images, and not using the same "copy" (install disks and ROM chip image) in WinUAE as in a hardware Amiga. The UAE copy must be a dedicated, UAE-only, legally purchased copy. And this only those that own but do not use an OS4 supported motherboard can legally use what is proposed in this thread.

OK, I'm somewhat forgetting the Pegasos2 OS4 exists now. That doesn't have Hyperion's special-sauce + uboot firmware. Perhaps an open-source flavor of OpenFirmware that reimplements things exactly as Genesi did can work. I'm not sure of the fine details of their OpenFirmware vs other OpenFirmware implementations, but it was stated at one time that the Peg2 port of OS4 would not translate into an Apple PPC port, as Genesi had some things in their firmware implementation that Hyperion used, which are missing from Apple's OpenFirmware implementation. So whatever that is, would need to find its way into the emulator's OpenFirmware implementation. Wikipedia says that particular OpenFirmware for Qemu is named "Open HackWare".

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

I think that the best emulator would be when i buy some
programs for different hardware and different OS's and
this thing could run them all.

Will there ever be an unified hardware platform? I do not think so.
Will there ever be an unified software platform? I do not think so.

Is it possible to build an unified hardware emulator?

Is it possible to build an unified software emulator?

Is it possible to build an unified hardware + software emulator?

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A1G3-SE + OS4.1 u1 iso (x2)

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:

Back in 2010 i offered TeamMorphOS to cover costs and ensure security for a MOS-Emulator. I can understand their fear about piracy but hey.. there are solutions which can't be "hacked". Online activation.

Just because you personally cannot think of ways to circumvent something does not mean it is impossible (or even difficult) to do.

There are members of the MorphOS development team who happen to be successful security consultants / analysts.

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:

phoenixkonsole wrote: Maybe it is better to use Dolphin emulator as base since it emulated ATI GPU and is faster than Qemu.

Oh the flak I took for suggesting an OS4 port to Nintendo hardware years ago on Amiga.org...

The Gamecube->Wii->WiiU upgrade path is pretty trivial too..
http://fail0verflow.com/blog/2013/espresso.html

And of course the Dolphin emulator means cheap x86/x64 hardware...

Ah hindsight, someday those fools in the Nibiru threads will see the [pressure of] light too...pun intended.

Last edited by Lou on 01-Feb-2014 at 08:21 AM.
Last edited by Lou on 01-Feb-2014 at 08:15 AM.

@ASiegel
? And? How would you do that with a single online activation, personalized in our sub micro market where everyone knows erveryone..?

If they are spezialized in security they should think about what they are using now... a mac adress check?

My concept was to have installation and activation running native on i386 linux. The result would containt a supervizor environment i showed in one of my vids.

Pure 100% control since security stuff is running native not emulated. No hints could be found about in any open source corde of an emulator...

And again:
If you offer it you will have more gain
Offer stays valid.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Feb-2014 at 10:21 AM.

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AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

@A500Fan

Iwould donate

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Finally there's light, AOS4 runs in WinUAE. Next logical steps, emulation of AOS4 PPC, porting AOS4 to x86/64

@akis

Welcome!

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:

How would you do that with a single online activation, personalized in our sub micro market where everyone knows erveryone..?

It does not exactly take a large ntellect to supply a fake name during the registration process and to pay via an anonymous prepaid debit card...

(Also people could ask a friend (or some distant acquaintance) without any relation to the MorphOS scene to pay with one of his/her cards, etc. There are quite a number of possible scenarios.)

Last edited by ASiegel on 01-Feb-2014 at 10:47 AM.
Last edited by ASiegel on 01-Feb-2014 at 10:46 AM.

@IntuitionAmiga

Im sorry if my words (unintentionally) offended you. I've misspoken.

Just want to invite users to avoid some comments that could be misinterpreted.

I'm not an authority to judge.

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retired

@AmigaBlitter

on Topic... the market is shrinking BECAUSE both AmigaOS and MorphOS are connected to aging and/or overprized hardware that is only interesting to a small number of veterans. To change that both have to change their strategy or they will simply die. Propably not tomorrow but a slow and long enduring process.

@OlafS25

Powerful VM solution for mainstream hardware could be good step from niche of "aging and/or overprized hardware".

What is needed:
Fast CPU emulation portable to different architectures (x86, ARM).
GFX acceleration (compositing, 3D).

I fear even these 2 basic points aren´t possible with current resources and technology. It seems it is much easier to design new computer around some PowerPC SoC than to write such VM/emulator.

@pavlor

+1

Yes it would...

i think a emulation based on Linux-kernel with emulation on top of it (like Amithlon, AMINUX, Aeros) would be best choice

@ASiegel
We should find to drink a beer and talk from face to face.. Lost in translation.

With online registration i mean: (i try from the beginning).

Somebody buys a license from TeamMOS (webshop, by phone, in real life).
He will be added to a allowed user list and gets a "one-time-valid-code registered on his name).

He becomes a MOS-Installer-CD ( can be offered as public download)
This CD boots into a native running Installer (no emulation at this point)
The installer requires the code
The installer needs a working internet connection (wire/wifi "shitegal"->denglish word)
The installer asks also for name /surname and maybe 1 or more things.

Whatever.. in any way..this is only possible once.
1 Pesron = 1 license = 1 PC

What has it to do with credit cards? I hate credit cards. ; D

-------
My idea is to have a supervisor mini linux(or bsd) from where you could run any os and or switch to another boot loader /see coreboot

And have AEROS (without all the linux stuff the released isos are coming because it is already under the hood), or any native or emulated OS running seamlessly together.

This is one feature kept back for ongoing going going going.... indieGO-project : ) ongoing ongoing.... ahhh.. time goes by... so rapidly.. time goes by (ARM and x86).

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Feb-2014 at 12:44 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Feb-2014 at 12:42 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Feb-2014 at 12:41 PM.

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AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

@phoenixkonsole
Just to add:
Stuff to enhance emulation like drivers for virtual devices or additional services can be closed. And are a bonbon.

So even in case we make use of open source stuff... needed bits to make it work are closed and need activation. The installer itself can fetch informations about the PC it is being installed on and send them back to the server. So a transition (image) would be made harder.

Working in VBOX and similar can be prohibited to. Linux is quite good in understanding the HW it is running on.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Feb-2014 at 12:57 PM.

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AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

@OlafS25

Quote:

on Topic... the market is shrinking BECAUSE both AmigaOS and MorphOS are connected to aging and/or overprized hardware that is only interesting to a small number of veterans. To change that both have to change their strategy or they will simply die. Propably not tomorrow but a slow and long enduring process.

By that logic the RiscOS-market would be skyrocketing....

The HW-situation surely does not help, but is far from the top when it comes to reasons for the shrinking "market".

I somehow doubt that adding an EMU that would run the OS at Efika-speed on top-notch PCs is really gonna help here....

Want to move MorphOS or OS4 to x86 ? Port it, make sure key apps are ported along with it, and then add a (JIT) PPC-emu for those apps that can't be ported.

Still won't do anything in terms of growing the "market".

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- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Kronos

I tried to do some marketing outside and the two questions were "What can xxx better?" and "What software is available?". We need good answers there before the market has a chance to grow again. But the hardware situation is not helpful too. People keep on claiming they do not use AROS because it is so "buggy, years behind" and so on so MorphOS (or AmigaOS) running on affordable hardware would be the solution. Or not?

@Xmas87

Personally I would opt for the AMIthlon path of modifying a Linux kernel...

and run a custom "init" which is directly the emulator.

Boot that into a direct "PPC over x86" Emulation exposing the native PCI as the PCI bus to the PPC Emulation and work from there.

Done as a Linux kernel module it may be possible to "side by side" the whole thing and export all of the Linux Hardware support underneath "Class Device" drivers on the PPC side and have both Linux + AmigaOS dual-userspace running at the same time.
(Think of ShapeShifter pre-allocating most of the System Memory and some Graphics Memory)

Do the whole thing as a FLOSS project and maybe that would be semi-functional?

offering a decent userspace experience as well as the underlying power of the server infrastructure a lot of systems run as the background as well. (optionally set aside memory for any background services to run ?)

Just a potentially dumb idea

@Belxjander
Next Aminux Version will allow to launch linux apps from emulated 68K AROS.
If you replace it with PPC AOS or PPC MorphOS you can have also some fun.
Encoding stuff could be used natively. Even Blender could be splittet in a PPC GUI with nativer blender-server. Would feel like MOS app but runs as fast as native Blender.

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AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

Quote:

Want to move MorphOS or OS4 to x86 ? Port it, make sure key apps are ported along with it, and then add a (JIT) PPC-emu for those apps that can't be ported.

I'm not sure wasting time writing a PPC-emu would be useful, since most key apps already all run on x86.

Quote:

Still won't do anything in terms of growing the "market".

At least, the market is there. With PPC, there's none. So no, if wouldn't do anything, but it would be easier to have one.

If I wanted to grow a market I guess I'd go the easy way...

Last edited by Leo on 01-Feb-2014 at 08:16 PM.
Last edited by Leo on 01-Feb-2014 at 02:23 PM.

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http://www.warpdesign.fr/