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pavlor 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 10:14:03
#101 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9255
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
I had a number of discussions with die-hard AmigaOS fans who tried to persuade me how superior PPC is.


You meant this? Sure, there are many PPC fans in OS4 and MorphOS camps. As x86 fan, I was always black sheep.

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 10:17:22
#102 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5942
From: Unknown

@pavlor

I think MorphOS fans are MorphOS fans. They do not care much about if it runs on PPC or another hardware. But as I wrote, it is a personal impression.

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 10:18:49
#103 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9255
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
They do not care much about if it runs on PPC or another hardware.


Just read some threads on Morphzone...

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 10:20:34
#104 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5942
From: Unknown

@pavlor

people writing PPC is the only real one and MorphOS the only future of Amiga? Where? Please post links

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Hyperionmp 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 10:22:47
#105 ]
Hyperion
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 502
From: Unknown

@pavlor

We have no emotional ties to any specific CPU architecture.

Before the 2009 settlement, we were restricted to PPC, an architecture to which migration had already started by third parties (Phase 5, Haage & Partner) prior to the involvement of Hyperion.

The fact is that a thousands of people invested very substantial cash in hardware such as BlizzarrdPPC and Cyberstorm PPC.

To abandon these users would have been a real shame which is wy to this date we still support the Commodore Amiga's with such PPC add-ons.

An added benefit was that PPC was bi-endian so also big endian just like the 68K.

But that certainly is not the only architecture out there that is big or bi-endian.

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wawa 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 10:51:31
#106 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Hyperionmp

Quote:
The fact is that a thousands of people invested very substantial cash in hardware such as BlizzarrdPPC and Cyberstorm PPC.


a bit strange an argument, since the os4 port to ppc accelerators for amiga came pretty lately as far as i remember, have been actually programmed by a third party and altogether their initiative only approved and distributed by hyperion after being presented the proof of concept. before that os4 in contrary to morphos only worked on its "dedicated"* ppc hardware in no way to related to amiga not to mention any amiga expansions people may have invested into.

*) well, "dedicated hardware" doesent probably appy to rebadged products, but lets leave it at it.

Last edited by wawa on 03-May-2015 at 10:54 AM.

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wawa 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 10:58:50
#107 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Hyperionmp

Quote:
Having said, AmigaOS 4.x is probably the software that "broke" most badly written applications over time because we did not want to compromise on bogging down features with compatibility hacks which Commodore did themselves for specific games.


convenient thing to say after compromising compatibility. may be the case, may be not. reading the forums seems that os4 dedicated software, or rather in most of cases software ported to it, may fail from update to update and from platform to platform.

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Hillbillylitre 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 11:00:38
#108 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2015
Posts: 270
From: Unknown

@Hyperionmp

Well at least I didn't buy the BPPC card mainly for the PPC CPU, I bought it for the graphics card and the already existing software. There were no PPC software at the time and Commodore was bankrupt and most or all serious software producers had moved or focused on other markets.

_________________
Using: One Commodore C64 - One Commodore Amiga 500 - One Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running Amiga DOS - One Hellbillylitre Amigatwox86x64x6000x running Windows7

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 11:01:34
#109 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9255
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:
a bit strange an argument, since the os4 port to ppc accelerators for amiga came pretty lately as far as i remember


True, but first work on OS4 was done on old Amiga hardware with PowerPC cards. It was sensible choice then to concentrate effort on new AmigaOne.

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wawa 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 11:16:29
#110 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
True, but first work on OS4 was done on old Amiga hardware with PowerPC cards.


may be. may even be, that the work was done on amiga hardware as reference. btw, im sure it was the same in case of other clones. but it doesnt change a simple and known fact, which defeats this in this respect rather demagogic argument:

Quote:
The fact is that a thousands of people invested very substantial cash in hardware such as BlizzarrdPPC and Cyberstorm PPC. To abandon these users would have been a real shame which is wy to this date we still support the Commodore Amiga's with such PPC add-ons.


porting os4 to amiga ppc accelerators at this late stage definitely doesnt look like a sign of continuous support towards the users that invested in the hardware in question some fifteen years before, as it is being worded in the above quote, but just another target audience to address the sales, when other possibilities have been saturated and no other alternatives in sight. similar btw may apply to pegasos port.

Quote:
It was sensible choice then to concentrate effort on new AmigaOne.


it would be if the hardware was any good.

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 11:19:22
#111 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9255
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:
that the work was done on amiga hardware as reference


There was no AmigaOne hardware back then...

Quote:
it would be if the hardware was any good.


That was only new hardware they had licence for, then.

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Hillbillylitre 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 11:47:53
#112 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2015
Posts: 270
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Hyperion ported games back then. It isn't the same as porting a operating system.

_________________
Using: One Commodore C64 - One Commodore Amiga 500 - One Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running Amiga DOS - One Hellbillylitre Amigatwox86x64x6000x running Windows7

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wawa 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 11:48:54
#113 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
There was no AmigaOne hardware back then...


am i questioning this? but to my knowledge os4 has not been released on any hardware till only well after "amigaone" has been available. or rather even after it wasnt available anymore, could that be?

one way or the other neither at its release nor practically till today os4 has been meant to address the investments anyone has made in amiga hardware or expansions. this is just pr talk as well as that video about continuous amiga os development among many other arguments, that have even been questioned by a former company co-owner. thats all i am referring to.

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Hyperionmp 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 11:52:17
#114 ]
Hyperion
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 502
From: Unknown

@wawa

Not quite. AmigaOS 4.0 was initially entirely developed on Cyberstorm PPC because removing all the chipsets dependencies from AmigaOS was also a quite substantial undertaking.

Last edited by Hyperionmp on 03-May-2015 at 11:52 AM.

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number6 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 12:36:21
#115 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@Hyperionmp

Quote:
Not quite. AmigaOS 4.0 was initially entirely developed on Cyberstorm PPC because removing all the chipsets dependencies from AmigaOS was also a quite substantial undertaking.


I suppose this post from HJF alludes to that:

Quote:
Projections and planning at this time didn't factor in a few important points that would soon become very important (like the removal of chipset dependencies, which where not required for the Escena board


Source

Quote:
We started on classic hardware, when we still thought that Escena would ever deliver anything.


I believe he meant "when we still thought that Escena would deliver".

Source

#6

Last edited by number6 on 03-May-2015 at 12:44 PM.

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 12:51:37
#116 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5942
From: Unknown

@number6

thanx for the link... I am just reading it. But kinda strange reading it for someone from "outside world"

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:05:47
#117 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1154
From: Unknown

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

Hyperionmp wrote:

AmigaOS 4.x is the ONLY genuine successor to AmigaOS 1.3 - 3.1 and beyond.




Given the facts that 1) The AmigaOS4 published by Hyperion is complete rewrite in important core components (such as Exec and Amiga DOS) and introduced several things in key areas that are very much "un-Amiga" in design and concept AND 2) AmigaOS 1.3 - 3.1 and beyond is still available, has been updated, and was recently released in a new version with new features, makes OS4 a FORK of Amiga OS rather than a "genuine successor" to it as you put it. The genuine OS for Amiga's is still being sold, completely separately from Hyperion and any of its published S/W! OS4 is one of three "NG" Operating Systems, though it is the only one with a (vague) source code connection, something that most people here now understands (from discussions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy) is a legal burden rather than a real life benefit in any way, technological and others. And fact is, that of the three "NG" Operating Systems available, OS4 is NOT the most Amiga compatible one or the one most "Amiga like" either, and I'm not talking about "different tastes" and "matter of opinions" here but strictly technological!


Quote:
It is based on the original source-code


Well someone said that Exec and DOS was complete rewrites, so MAJOR parts of OS4 (the most important parts) are not based on anything from Commodore at all (and like itix so politely hinted in his cute "beating around the bush" manner, the connections to AROS has already been established behind the scene). Beyond that, the 3.1 sources you are talking about are REWRITES of the original source code, for a different tool-chain altogether, rewritten for/ported to GCC and made to facilitate a migration away from the Amiga H/W. If you would compile these 3.1 sources you are talking about (which OS4 is based upon (except those major parts "written from scratch" )), it would NOT generate the same binaries as we find on the Workbench 3.1 disks, and this is a FACT! The key is of course the 3.1 API, this is the only thing that matters. And this is the same for all three of the "NG" Operating Systems, OS4 is no different here. So it's not a technological link, it's an emotional link, part of your effort to build a meta product.


Quote:
"Here's a video generated from the AmigaOS source-code repository...


I agree with your former Hyperion partner on this, "I fail to see how a video uploaded by Hyperion itself (or so it seems), and created by Rogue (or so it seems) is a convincing argument". It was merely one of many efforts to build an emotional meta product for OS4 marketing. As is the history and credits pages of "amigaos.net" website, where Jay Miner, Carl Sassenrath and Dave Haynie etc are mixed with people like Steven Solie and the Friedens. I can completely understand why this is so desperately important to you. OS4 was not the first, it is not the most Amiga like, not the most Amiga compatible, it is not the best (speaking of both quality and features). So the only thing left when you fall short in every single logical/technological areas compared to the competition, is to do what you have been doing since 2001: Go for the emotional aspects of it instead, build a meta-product and make THIS your Unique Selling Point! (And why not smear the competition with FUD as well?) This is exactly what A-Eon is trying to do with their 3000 door stops as well, project (in any way possible) the impression that the the product you sell is a real Amiga! It's "teh reel!!1!", "it's (almost) based on the (almost) real sources", "it's the only TRUE"... Problem with this strategy is that at some point consumers might start thinking for themselves and decide that logical/technological arguments and real, tangible qualities of a product is better and more preferable and more usable in real life than emotional meta-products. But I suppose you have learned this the hard way by now...?

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:14:39
#118 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1154
From: Unknown

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:
Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?


I'll contribute with one thing about the "IP" here, GoDaddy's own Domain Name Appraisal Service estimated (26-feb-2010) the value of the amiga.com domain name to be between $1,268 - $3,296. I have the printed document here beside me.

Sounds reasonable and fair IMHO. I suppose it would be less today, and even less tomorrow with all the new TLD's coming in as fast as they do...

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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:19:58
#119 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2287
From: Germany

@megol

Quote:

megol wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote:
...
For about 20 years the Amiga o.s. had fully linear address space. No "8-bit era" bank switching.
...


And you think you are a technical person?

The problem is given by the AOS design - using a single address space. How would you add the same functionality given that constraint?
Implying that this is linked to "8-bit era" is ridiculous.

You completely misunderstood. I was referring to this crap: Breaking the Memory Barrier.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 13:24:03
#120 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1154
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:
@itix

Quote:

itix wrote:
@number6

Oh... necrothread became alive it seems.

number6 wrote:
@itix

My fault. I was posting about the status of MANY Amiga related websites and social media today, and this thread was the only thing I could find on-topic.


Instead of digging up old graves, why not simply start a NEW thread, say what you want to say and make any number of links and referrals to whatever old posts you may find relevant in the context? It's not like the Internet is running out of bytes or anything. Bumping very old threads and lure people into discussing year-old subjects is bad Netiquette IMHO...

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