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Hyperionmp 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 2-May-2015 22:43:18
#61 ]
Hyperion
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 502
From: Unknown

@gta2014

A few. AmigaOS 4.x is the ONLY genuine successor to AmigaOS 1.3 - 3.1 and beyond.

It is based on the original source-code, some of which even predates Commodore's involvement.

Not convinced?

"Here's a video generated from the AmigaOS source-code repository showing development from AmigaOS 1.0 in 1985 through to AmigaOS 4.1 update 2 in 2010. Clearly Commodore's source code repository did survive its demise."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NJ1TlQwLTs

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jorit2 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 2-May-2015 22:59:05
#62 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 243
From: Unknown

@Hyperionmp

With all due respect, but I fail to see how a video uploaded by Hyperion itself (or so it seems), and created by Rogue (or so it seems) is a convincing argument ...

Evert

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sundown 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 2-May-2015 23:09:20
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@jorit2

And just who do we trust to tell the truth anymore when everyone in Amigaland is a "liar"?

Last edited by sundown on 02-May-2015 at 11:15 PM.

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jorit2 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 2-May-2015 23:12:42
#64 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 243
From: Unknown

@sundown

i didn't even imply it's a lie, but using this video as an argument in this ... "debate" seemed a little flawed/weak

It's like me saying ...

"Hey I created this software X" and then point to a webpage I put up online myself to prove it.

Evert

Last edited by jorit2 on 02-May-2015 at 11:13 PM.

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itix 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 2-May-2015 23:15:40
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@gta2014

Who need Amiga brand name anymore? Amiga 500 did not sell because it was Amiga branded. It sold because it was a good machine.

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sundown 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 2-May-2015 23:17:09
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@jorit2

I wasn't arguing with you, just saying nobody trusts anyone here these days.

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number6 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 2-May-2015 23:19:48
#67 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@itix

Methinks neither of you gets a response given the post from @gta2014 was, in fact made in 2014 and he's likely not following this convo.

#6

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 2-May-2015 23:20:41
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5942
From: Unknown

@jorit2

it is not important anyway. We have 2015 now, if AmigaOS is based on the old sources is not interesting today (except some users here). Most see only amiga computers with 68k processor, kickstart and OS up to 3.9 as Amiga, MorphOS and AROS users do not care either and outside noone is interested in it either. If you would ask most people there (if they remember Amiga at all) they would say "Amiga? Oh Yes the Amiga 500". With PPC most people would have no emotional connections. It is important for parts of the AmigaOS community as a kind of identification so we should leave them their fun.

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Boot_WB 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 2-May-2015 23:22:01
#69 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

Hyperionmp wrote:
@gta2014

It is based on the original source-code, some of which even predates Commodore's involvement.


There was a horror movie advertised on the radio earlier based on real events from 1977.

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itix 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 2-May-2015 23:22:43
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@number6

Oh... necrothread became alive it seems.

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 2-May-2015 23:24:18
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5942
From: Unknown

@sundown

it might be true but it does not tell anything about product quality. If Hyperion wants to make more money they need better reasons than old sources if they want to win new customers.

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number6 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 2-May-2015 23:30:53
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@itix

My fault. I was posting about the status of MANY Amiga related websites and social media today, and this thread was the only thing I could find on-topic.

More of it covered in other threads such as:

start with #283

#6

Last edited by number6 on 02-May-2015 at 11:36 PM.

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resle 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 2-May-2015 23:50:08
#73 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 500
From: shanghai

@jorit2, @sundown

I wonder why everyone still debates whether AmigaOS 4 is actually based on 3.1's sources. What could Hyperion have done at all without that huge codebase?

AmigaOS 4 is clearly based on 3.1's sources. But, was I Hyperion, I wouldn't struggle to prove it and even less brag about it.

All the opposite: I would pretend I started from scratch. Because for the OS to be where it is, given the privileged starting point Hyperion had - well, it's twice the shame.

Last edited by resle on 02-May-2015 at 11:50 PM.

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kolla 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 3:30:10
#74 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1872
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

It is based on the original source-code, some of which even predates Commodore's involvement


Yes, it is rather embarrassing.

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sundown 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 5:28:24
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@resle

Quote:
I wonder why everyone still debates whether AmigaOS 4 is actually based on 3.1's sources. What could Hyperion have done at all without that huge codebase?

All part of the developer war between the 3 OSs, each side claiming the other is using some of their code. Personally I have no idea what the truth is in all this or care. Each side will tell a different story so we'll never know the real truth.

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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 5:46:26
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2287
From: Germany

@Hyperionmp: there aren't doubts that the AmigaOS4 is the successor of the Amiga operating system (short version from me: Amiga o.s.). A video is not needed for declaring that.

But when you put the "genuine" word, well, I strongly disagree.

For about 20 years the Amiga o.s. had libraries with no concept of "interfaces": there was only one to "rule them (applications) all".

For about 20 years the Amiga o.s. had libraries for sharing a single set of code and its global data. No shared objects at all.

For about 20 years the Amiga o.s. had fully linear address space. No "8-bit era" bank switching.

So, you can legitimately talk about OS4 as the (legal) successor, but you have transformed the original o.s. in its nemesis...

Last edited by cdimauro on 03-May-2015 at 05:47 AM.

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blizz1220 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 6:59:01
#77 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

As for the trademarks I wouldn't say they are worthless
by any means considering that getting Amiga or Commodore
trademark can get you in promo campaign with Disney or at
Nascar Racing if you play your poker cards right.

People are strange and when they want to buy Amiga or
Commodore they tend to Google and then buy things labeled
with Amiga(One) and Commodore.

Sadly both trademarks are owned by people who only use(d)
them to extort money or sue someone but even if somebody
was to make a new product based on these it probably would
have nothing to do with anything considered Amiga here but
maybe there would me more good will towards these projects.

P.S. Sorry , I wasn't including AmigaOne in above statement but
i wouldn't consider it happy story so far either ...

Last edited by blizz1220 on 03-May-2015 at 07:00 AM.

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resle 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 7:16:59
#78 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 500
From: shanghai

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote:
@resle

[quote]we'll never know the real truth.


...as opposed to the false truth?

Jokes aside, I think the timeline of the post AmigaOS 3.1 era events make the truth quite obvious leaving little room for wars:



1994 - Commodore goes titsup


1995 - AROS development begins. No AmigaOS 3.1 source are used: a bunch of scattered developers/fans just can't have access to the closely guarded assets of a once billion-dollar company still fresh from bankruptcy. The crawling speed of development also speaks for the lack of reference material. Everything happens through painstakingly hacking and retro-engineering.


2000 - Morphos first release. No secret is made that Morphos borrowed from the first few years of AROS development and retro-engineering o AmigaOS 3.1. Why starting from scratch, after all?


2001 - Amiga Inc. hands AmigaOS 3.1 sources to Hyperion for a port to the PPC architecture that will become AmigaOS 4.0 in 2004. History goes that the improvements from Haage & Partner couldn't be used. It's a very logical assumption that, with 6 years of re-creation and api-compatible improvements ready to be grabbed from the Aros source repositories, Hyperion took handfuls of code from there. And I bet that their logic was "you know, they made this stuff by retro-engineering the OS of which now we own the source code... so it's legit".

(An assumption which later evolved in the "Aros is illegal" statement, a behavior perfectly consistent with the ethics of someone who receives source code for a project, and then decides to just keep it and claim exclusive rights on it)



In conclusion, yes AmigaOS 4 is really built on the 3.1 sources... but not just on those! There must be plenty of AROS code in there, too.

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Hyperionmp 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 7:57:34
#79 ]
Hyperion
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 502
From: Unknown

@resle

There is absolutely NO Aros code in AmigaOS 4.x. barring possible one small component carried over from AmigaOS 3.5/3.9.

The extent of your ignorance is quite astounding.

And yes, we did start frm scratch with a complete reimplementation of Exec in C (ExecSG), an entirely new DOS library etc.

Again, why are you even posting this? Even your average troll these days knows these facts.

But we value compatibility.

Strangely enough, so does our userbase and the userbase of the clones.

Having said, AmigaOS 4.x is probably the software that "broke" most badly written applications over time because we did not want to compromise on bogging down features with compatibility hacks which Commodore did themselves for specific games.


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itix 
Re: Amiga name, assets and IP today: how much is worth?
Posted on 3-May-2015 8:04:51
#80 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

There is absolutely NO Aros code in AmigaOS 4.x. barring possible one small component carried over from AmigaOS 3.5/3.9.


Are you sure?

Last edited by itix on 03-May-2015 at 08:06 AM.

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