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phoenixkonsole 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 17-Aug-2014 13:43:46
#161 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1758
From: Unknown

@pavlor
Yep and non of the available os4 Systems have 3D either.
But as mentioned i think two years more than the Speed Problem is Solved and wazp3d is also there.
BTW i would take the aminux approach so you can Run modern 3D if you need natively.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 17-Aug-2014 at 04:36 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 17-Aug-2014 at 01:44 PM.

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broadblues 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 17-Aug-2014 17:26:57
#162 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4402
From: Portsmouth England

@pavlor

Quote:

We discussed simply QEMU CPU core performance, not future WinUAE implementation.


You discussed QUEMU performance, phoenixconsole used that to suggest a SAM equivalent emulator for SAM(e) price, but left out the hardware and other winuae overhead. I'm not accusing you of behaving like a used car sales man.

I agree that uaegfx speeds up UAE enivonments considerably, WinUAE emulating 3.x is not really usable in AGA on my older PC but is in RTG, but there is still some WinUAE CPU overhead to run even that and as you say no OS4 driver.


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phoenixkonsole 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 17-Aug-2014 17:35:21
#163 ]
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Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1758
From: Unknown

@broadblues
Sure there is Overhead but qemus ethernet, gpu and Sound emulation is Overhead as well and Maybe more than what winuae does. I am not Sure if the Second CPU emulation can be Splitted as own task. If yes it will Benefit from dualcore Systems.
We will See it One Day... Right now we assume.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 17-Aug-2014 18:04:00
#164 ]
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Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:
I am not Sure if the Second CPU emulation can be Splitted as own task. If yes it will Benefit from dualcore Systems.


WinUAE emulates PowerPC on second core.

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itix 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 17-Aug-2014 19:08:12
#165 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@pavlor

Quote:

Too slow and non-compatible to be really useable (Beta 11). Better to wait for faster core (eg. QEMU).


If Toni Wilen ever bothers to replace PearPC core with QEMU (which is better). It seems it is quite lot work and Toni dont care so much about NG operating systems.

At the moment with currernt PearPC MorphOS wont even boot properly and OS4 crashes randomly. It just depends on how quickly you hit wrong PPC instruction...

Shame, I'd really like to see MorphOS 1.4 booting again.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 17-Aug-2014 19:16:11
#166 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@itix

Quote:
Shame, I'd really like to see MorphOS 1.4 booting again.


There is some attempt to run current MorphOS release in QEMU - maybe it will be done soon (or not...).

Note: Although CPU emulation is faster in current QEMU version, precompiled Windows binary of version 2.1 I use right now has much slower GFX than old 0.8.2 release. Fast UAEGFX and QEMU CPU core - that would be ideal combination for MorphOS/OS4 emulation.

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itix 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 17-Aug-2014 20:09:34
#167 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@pavlor

I know this effort but it is not the same than running MorphOS in WinUAE. I am never going to get PPC Amiga again (too rare, too flakey) and WinUAE is only way to have it again. Only on real Amiga you can have the original chipset which, for some strange reason, is still appealing me.

Although I probably would get bored in five minutes...

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Zylesea 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 17-Aug-2014 20:59:29
#168 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2168
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote:

Shame, I'd really like to see MorphOS 1.4 booting again.



As I understood Toni Willen has decided to go the QEMU route now. A little patience and your wish may become true eventually.

But what about the "Usage on any other hardware and/or inside of emulation environments is strictly forbidden." clause of the MorphOS for PowerUP?

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itix 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 18-Aug-2014 3:40:29
#169 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Zylesea

It is still valid.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 18-Aug-2014 5:34:28
#170 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1758
From: Unknown

@itix
Not if you live outside the us or are end-user.
See hackintosh.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 18-Aug-2014 at 05:36 AM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 18-Aug-2014 at 05:35 AM.

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BinoX 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 19-Aug-2014 8:36:22
#171 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2005
Posts: 709
From: Cornwall, UK

Has there been any official word from Hyperion on their stance of using OS4 classic under emulation?

I dug out my never-before-installed OS 4.0 classic and got it all installed and working on WinUAE. (I had a PPC accelerator, never installed OS 4 and then sold the accel a few months later)

If emulation improves, I may well buy OS 4.1 classic as well...

It's been a good few years since my AmigaOne XE died and I've missed the OS 4 experience :( and every time I have a little bit of spare cash there's never any systems available (The X1000 is well out of my price range these days, now that I have a mortgage to pay off and the Sams don't seem to be available any more)

Here is how far I've gotten in fiddling with WinUAE: http://www.apidya.net/OS4emulated.png (Excuse the "network" typo)

Last edited by BinoX on 19-Aug-2014 at 08:36 AM.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 19-Aug-2014 12:42:11
#172 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

Another QEMU PowerPC benchmark (PowerPC 750 emulated on Core i5-2500K 3.3 GHz; QEMU 2.1) dnetc 2.9109-518-CFR-10071303:

OGR-NG: 4,096,130 nodes/sec (... 440EP 425 MHz; 750 380 MHz; 750GX 366 MHz)
RC5-72: 3,619,238 keys/sec (... 440EP 1150 MHz; 750 1155 MHz; 750GX 1070 MHz)

For comparison:
440EP 666 MHz
OGR-NG: 6,413,294.00 nodes/sec
RC5-72: 2,094,967.00 keys/sec

750 (ext L2) 450 MHz
OGR-NG: 4,852,631.00 nodes/sec
RC5-72: 1,410,643.00 keys/sec

750GX 1000 MHz
OGR-NG: 11,194,444.00 nodes/sec
RC5-72: 3,381,284.91 keys/sec


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number6 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 19-Aug-2014 12:49:32
#173 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10829
From: In the village

@BinoX

Quote:
Has there been any official word from Hyperion on their stance of using OS4 classic under emulation?


I've seen nothing of the sort in any public venue. In fact, very few folks have even brought this up as a topic. When they have, it's been quickly dismissed.

#6


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Boot_WB 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 19-Aug-2014 12:50:42
#174 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@BinoX

Quote:

BinoX wrote:

(The X1000 is well out of my price range these days, now that I have a mortgage to pay off and the Sams don't seem to be available any more)


Does that mean you've found a way out of Helston's incomprehensible one-way system?

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 19-Aug-2014 12:57:02
#175 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

Dnetc WOS (dnetc 2.9109-518-CTR-10121712) in WinUAE (beta 12?):

OGR-NG: 183,820 nodes/sec (... 604e 17 MHz )
RC5-72: 72,282 keys/sec (... 604e 23 MHz)


For comparison:
604e 180 MHz
OGR-NG: 1,869,902.83 nodes/sec
RC5-72: 577,487.71 keys/sec

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number6 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 19-Aug-2014 13:51:32
#176 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10829
From: In the village

@number6

Quote:
@BinoX

Quote:
Has there been any official word from Hyperion on their stance of using OS4 classic under emulation?


I've seen nothing of the sort in any public venue. In fact, very few folks have even brought this up as a topic. When they have, it's been quickly dismissed.



Guide: WinUAE PPC OS 4.0 Classic Install Guide (Beta 12)

Shortly after this was posted a disclaimer was added.

It should be self explanatory.

#6

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eliyahu 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 19-Aug-2014 13:52:14
#177 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1811
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@pavlor

yeah. so, i have AOS4 classic running in winUAE now -- but it is glacially slow. i mean slow. i mean like it flows like peanut butter. in winter. on neptune. if toni ever integrates the PPC JIT from QEMU, it might be able to get us close to real CSPPC speeds, though. i'd love to see that happen.

-- eliyahu


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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 19-Aug-2014 13:54:48
#178 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11209
From: Norway

@number6

Quote:
I've seen nothing of the sort in any public venue. In fact, very few folks have even brought this up as a topic. When they have, it's been quickly dismissed.


I don't see way they should, every outher operating system can be emulated, besides emulators can be useful.

Crating a EULA that says you not preremitted to use it in a emulator etc, will just be ignored because be impossible to police.

On the other hand you should not expect Hyperion to bend over backwords to support emulators. They have more important things to do, and work on that.

AmigaOS4 will be moving target to support fully, as more and more advanced hardware features are supported by AmigaOS4, more and more modern hardware will need to be emulated by WinUAE.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Aug-2014 at 04:22 PM.

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terminills 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 19-Aug-2014 14:01:21
#179 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1387
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
AmigaOS4 will be moving target to support fully, as more and more advanced hardware features are supported by AmigaOS4, more and more modern hardware will need to be emulated by WinUAE.


At the rate Toni works vs Hyperion development speed he should easily be able to take a vacation while waiting for emulation to break.

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number6 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 19-Aug-2014 14:01:33
#180 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10829
From: In the village

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
On the other hand you should not expect Hyperion to bend backwords to support emulators.


I don't, but it's Amigakit, AmigaOS4.x beta testers, and users supporting the posts in the EAB thread. I don't see the relevance of Hyperion in this context.

Quote:
AmigaOS4 will be moving target to support fully, as more and more advanced hardware features are supported by AmigaOS4, more and more modern hardware will need to be emulated by WinUAE.


Since this is for Classic AmigaOS4.x, I don't understand your comment, unless you're indicating more support for classic h/w is coming in a later release for classic?

#6

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