Poster | Thread |
NutsAboutAmiga
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 21-Sep-2014 17:51:22
| | [ #301 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12962
From: Norway | | |
|
| @Rob
Quote:
@NutsAboutAmiga
Quote:
Anyway its better to have real memory, then depending on memory being swapped out when you run low. |
It really depends how fast it swaps out. Since under emulation it will all be on the same bus there'll be less of a penalty.
|
Not all memory can be swapped out, and I don't know if every program acts right when its swapped out, but I agree it should not make a difference, but it might. Anyway it might be just my paranoia.Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Sep-2014 at 05:54 PM.
_________________ http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/ Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
cdimauro
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 21-Sep-2014 20:26:51
| | [ #302 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 29-Oct-2012 Posts: 4127
From: Germany | | |
|
| Quote:
Leo wrote: Quote:
He tried to increase accellerator RAM. However, OS4 could support Z3 as RAM - that would be simple change
|
Simple: there's no such thing as "simple" when it comes to OS4/MorphOS and emulation... I mean: I don't see Hyperion releasing an updated OS4 (or even a single patched file) if it only benefits emulation. Especialy not if it benefits emulation... |
Some people have bought OS4 "Classic" just for using it with WinUAE: I think that their money aren't less important than compared to people which uses this product on real hardware.
The patch should be very simple to implement, so it'll not require ages for the authors...
Quote:
NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Ancalimon
Quote:
Would it matter under emulation? |
Well yes, the emulation does not change what AmigaOS4 is doing,
it might be true that Z3 RAM is slower then RAM on a PC, but even so the emulated Z3 memory is used as swap. |
From an emulation point-of-view it doesn't matter: both Z3 and PowerPC board RAM will run at the same, maximum speed.
Z3 is not chip ram, where you've to take care of the timings: it runs as fast as possible. The same for the on-board memory. Slowing down them on purpose, for a "cycle-exact emulation", doesn't make sense, and I'm pretty sure that Toni hasn't implemented it this way. Quote:
Anyway its better to have real memory, then depending on memory being swapped out when you run low. |
Of course. A simple patch can solve it.
Quote:
pavlor wrote: @tlosm
Quote:
@pavlor run a timedemo with quake in 640x480 in software mode there are many porting for wos and ppc.library i can say the result compared with sam 440,460 ,xe,pegasos2 and some cybererstorm ppc |
Now, Quake ports work with WinUAE 2.9.0 beta 17. Tried only 320x200...
timedemo demo1 QuakeWOS: 28.6 FPS |
Unfortunately it suffers from the slow speed of the emulated (not JITed) FPU. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
pavlor
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 26-Sep-2014 17:08:37
| | [ #303 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
From: Unknown | | |
|
| First post from OS4 (Netsurf) 
Installation of AmigaOS 4.1 was easy (only too much updates to install...). AmiUpdate is really cool. I had sole problem with Connection Wizzard and Czech locale (wrong names of options).
My first impressions (and some Benchmarks) confirm expected performance on Core i5-2500K: 400 (OGR-NG, DosBox) to 1000 (RC5-72) MHz 604e.
I´m impressed by 68k compatibility of OS4. I just copied my applications (TvPaint, PPaint - there I changed paths in config file) and some games (Populous II - WHDLoad installed) - all work without problem by double-click. No other installation needed. My WinUAE box is fast enough for A500 games emulated by RunInUAE. I will try more demanding classic games later.
128 MB Fast RAM + SWAP is not enough for some applications (Odyssey), other work OK (NetSurf, OWB 3.32 - certainly only few tabs can be opened). AbiWord (AmiCygnix) is slow, but useable for simple text writing with footnotes. I must try some more complex documents (eg. my master thesis).
4 MB GFX RAM is also very limiting. I use 1366x768-16bit (native resolution of notebook of my brother), TFT on my desktop supports up to 1680x1050. Transparency effects work even with Picasso IV (fast), I thought these are only for Radeon cards.
Stability: There are crashes in low-Fast memory situations. May be also error in emulation (crashes entire emulation, not only OS4). Time for games!
Edit: RAM, VRAM and stability. Last edited by pavlor on 26-Sep-2014 at 05:17 PM.
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
phoenixkonsole
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 26-Sep-2014 17:13:17
| | [ #304 ] |
|
|
 |
Super Member  |
Joined: 8-Nov-2009 Posts: 1772
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @pavlor The needed ppc board roms are they legal?
_________________ AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
pavlor
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 26-Sep-2014 17:18:58
| | [ #305 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @phoenixkonsole
I don´t think so.  |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
NutsAboutAmiga
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 26-Sep-2014 20:33:04
| | [ #306 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12962
From: Norway | | |
|
| @phoenixkonsole
It's Abandonware, you can't buy the roms and hardware is not sold anymore. Unless roms are offered for sale it has no commercial value. Phase5 is out of business, I think you can safely copy the rom's with out getting into any legal problems with original owners.
DCE might be the owner of the ROM's but they have not offered it for sale, nor have I seen any statement from DCE about the ROM's. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Sep-2014 at 11:22 AM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Sep-2014 at 09:06 PM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Sep-2014 at 08:34 PM.
_________________ http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/ Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
phoenixkonsole
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 26-Sep-2014 20:54:50
| | [ #307 ] |
|
|
 |
Super Member  |
Joined: 8-Nov-2009 Posts: 1772
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @NutsAboutAmiga I can reach dce in some minutes by car. I know that they purchased some of property/ip I asked them some years ago for a quote for manufacturing a mobo. I know that they don't care about amiga anymore but "abandonware" is relative if you try to use it in commercial context like me. I just hoped for a offical statement in another forum about the status. Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 26-Sep-2014 at 08:56 PM.
_________________ AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
terminills
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 26-Sep-2014 23:19:09
| | [ #308 ] |
|
|
 |
AROS Core Developer  |
Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 1500
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @phoenixkonsole
They are property of the bankruptcy trustee iirc.
_________________ Support AROS sponsor a developer.
"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
wawa
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 27-Sep-2014 1:01:30
| | [ #309 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
From: Unknown | | |
|
| funny enough p5 accel roms are abandonware but amiga kickstarts are not. not that it bothers much admittedly. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
phoenixkonsole
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 27-Sep-2014 7:25:11
| | [ #310 ] |
|
|
 |
Super Member  |
Joined: 8-Nov-2009 Posts: 1772
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @terminills Maybe, maybe not : ) From Wikipedia : " DCE bought licenses before liquidation and produced some of the Phase5 hardware products under its own name. " I will call then Monday. I see no problem for private use in most but not all countries, it is just to clear things for comercial context. Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 27-Sep-2014 at 07:28 AM.
_________________ AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
NutsAboutAmiga
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 27-Sep-2014 11:00:37
| | [ #311 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12962
From: Norway | | |
|
| Quote:
but amiga kickstarts are not. |
the Kickstart ROM's are being sold by AmigaKit.
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=62
The Rom files are being sold as part of AmigaForever and AmigaOS4.1 So ROM's have some kind of commercial value.
As Amiga Inc is selling Amiga games to Black Barry I assume the rom's are also bundled with there games.
Amiga Kit are selling the physical rom's Hyperion, Cloanto and Amiga Inc as bundling the ROM's as part of there products.
And also the Kickstart is not abandoned because the libraries / devices / and other part of roms are part of AmigaOS4.0/4.1 kickstart (just newer versions with bug fixes etc).
I think Hyperion wonts people to upgrade, and putting resources on back porting to 680x0 means less resources to improve the OS. How ever layers.library has been back ported so maybe its possible. An other issue is trying to prevent forking of the source tree, having things close sources means that they don't need to worry about incompatibles. (some developers/hacks revere engineering libraires and putting hair in the soup so to speak)
I understand that Amiga1200/4000 users wonts to new kickstart rom's, I understand there frustration with old DOS.library and OLD fastfilesystem and other parts. Of AmigaOS3.1/3.9 that might give people problems.
If people want Hyperion create a new ROM, classic users has to show that there is a market, and that it makes sense to do so.
Anyway wawa if you like to read about the status quote, there is some information about it at Amiga.org. http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67649
I'm not sure what "page" but that topic has attract some developers who have worked on AmigaOS. (Thomas Richter, Olsen, Karlos to name a few.)Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Sep-2014 at 11:22 AM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Sep-2014 at 11:15 AM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Sep-2014 at 11:14 AM.
_________________ http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/ Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
number6
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 27-Sep-2014 12:16:20
| | [ #312 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11662
From: In the village | | |
|
| @NutsAboutAmiga
Quote:
As Amiga Inc is selling Amiga games to Black Barry I assume the rom's are also bundled with there games.
Amiga Kit are selling the physical rom's Hyperion, Cloanto and Amiga Inc as bundling the ROM's as part of there products. |
Perhaps I'm forgetful this morning, but what products are Amiga Inc. bundling ROMs with?
#6
_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Everblue
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 27-Sep-2014 12:41:58
| | [ #313 ] |
|
|
 |
Cult Member  |
Joined: 24-Sep-2006 Posts: 679
From: Amigaland | | |
|
| I have a question....
Does Amiga OS4.1 run faster on WinUAE on a fast PC (i7) than on a real Sam460ex@1.1Ghz?
_________________
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
DiscreetFX
 |  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 27-Sep-2014 12:44:30
| | [ #314 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 12-Feb-2003 Posts: 2543
From: Chicago, IL | | |
|
| @number6
If their games are emulated Amiga ones then the Kickstart ROM would be included with each one. Last edited by DiscreetFX on 27-Sep-2014 at 12:45 PM.
_________________ Sent from my Quantum Computer. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
pavlor
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 27-Sep-2014 12:53:14
| | [ #315 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Everblue
Does Amiga OS4.1 run faster on WinUAE on a fast PC (i7) than on a real Sam460ex@1.1Ghz?
With 128 MB Fast RAM, 4 MB GFX RAM and no Compositing? I bet no.
Last edited by pavlor on 27-Sep-2014 at 12:53 PM.
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
number6
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 27-Sep-2014 12:56:11
| | [ #316 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11662
From: In the village | | |
|
| @DiscreetFX
Quote:
If their games are emulated Amiga ones then the Kickstart ROM would be included with each one. |
If you have a link concerning the blackberry operation that illustrates exactly what they are using, please post it. As far as Amiga Games Inc. (the WRIT subsidiary) is concerned, they have zero products. The theory has been from the start that they needed to acquire such a license, hence their problem. And if that is true, considering your statement indicating that the Amiga Inc. branch DID have such a license, the logic leads us to Amiga Inc. either (1)not being able to pass (sublicense) to Amiga Games Inc. or (2)never had a license in the first place, no?
Furthermore, look at who IS doing licensing: Quote:
Hyperion Entertainment CVBA (Belgium) and Individual Computers GmbH (Germany) have signed a license agreement for use of Kickstart 1.3 and Kickstart 3.1 ROMs in processor accelerators for Amiga 500, Amiga 1000, Amiga 2000 and Amiga 2500. |
What are the chances that Hyperion is anxious to assist Amiga by issuing a license? Throw Cloanto into that mix as well.
Like I said...if they have a license, why can't they produce any products at Amiga Games Inc.?
Any further discussion on this we should take to: Term Sheet for New Acquisition of Amiga Games Inc. where we do touch on the blackberry aspect as well.
#6Last edited by number6 on 27-Sep-2014 at 01:05 PM. Last edited by number6 on 27-Sep-2014 at 01:00 PM.
_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Everblue
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 27-Sep-2014 12:58:36
| | [ #317 ] |
|
|
 |
Cult Member  |
Joined: 24-Sep-2006 Posts: 679
From: Amigaland | | |
|
| @pavlor
Quote:
pavlor wrote: @Everblue
Does Amiga OS4.1 run faster on WinUAE on a fast PC (i7) than on a real Sam460ex@1.1Ghz?
With 128 MB Fast RAM, 4 MB GFX RAM and no Compositing? I bet no.
|
Thanks. I bet someone will come up with a fix - then we'll talk
Or maybe Hyperion should make a Winuae version of Amiga OS4.1 with no HW limitations. It would be pretty funny if on emu it runs faster than X1000Last edited by Everblue on 27-Sep-2014 at 01:05 PM. Last edited by Everblue on 27-Sep-2014 at 01:04 PM.
_________________
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
NutsAboutAmiga
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 27-Sep-2014 13:52:15
| | [ #318 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12962
From: Norway | | |
|
| |
Status: Offline |
|
|
NutsAboutAmiga
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 27-Sep-2014 14:11:54
| | [ #319 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12962
From: Norway | | |
|
| @Everblue
The QEMU emulation used by Tony is to slow to beat Sam440, its no way it can beat X1000, if you only get 1/20 to 1/10 of Mhz on I5/I7, 200Mhz – 400Mhz, it wont help having better support for graphic cards under emulation.
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=969807&postcount=41
If Tony used Dolphin CPU emulation it might been closer to 800Mhz. But Dolphin CPU emulation is incomplete as he says, so it can't be used. and if it was used and he did add what is missing I bet it be slower.
Anyway I don't know how fast WinUAE is, because no one has yet run any ragemem and mplayer benchmarks.
What I know is if you running Linux (x86) in VirtualBox on x86 Window, is not like dual booting Linux, visualization is always slower then running the OS alone, emulation of a different CPU type is lot more complicated and a lot more CPU demanding.
Its even trick to emulate some ting as simple as a Amiga 500 on I7 correct.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7tkyjdw0Sg
this way you have MiniMig and hardware like that.
How ever this does not make WinUAE useless, it can be used when you travel, it can be used to recover, or it can be used to test stuff you have cross compiled, and it might also be used to test if things work on AmigaOS4.1 classic. So WinUAE can have many uses. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Sep-2014 at 03:16 PM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Sep-2014 at 02:22 PM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Sep-2014 at 02:21 PM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Sep-2014 at 02:20 PM. Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Sep-2014 at 02:17 PM.
_________________ http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/ Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Everblue
|  |
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation. Posted on 27-Sep-2014 14:18:08
| | [ #320 ] |
|
|
 |
Cult Member  |
Joined: 24-Sep-2006 Posts: 679
From: Amigaland | | |
|
| @NutsAboutAmiga
Ah well I understand what you mean. What I didn't understand is your Minimig comment =) _________________
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|