@Massi

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Massi wrote: @KimmoK At the time of Window$ 3.1, AmigaOS was far ahead! Just a quick example, even Amiga 500 was capable to format a floppy disk in perfect multitasking with the user actually using the system during the operation, while Window$ was poorly stuck ... it is a question of design

And was it a good design to make internal o.s. structures publicly available and even writable? This is the main reason why the Amiga o.s. suffers of the same issues, whereas all other mainstream o.ses run rock solid.

BTW, starting from Windows 3 for 286, and 3.1 for 386, it was introduced memory protection for applications, which greatly limited the chance to corrupt other applications or even bring down the entire system.
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PC / Intel advocates here may remember.

That's the usual Ad Hominem attack.

If defending some facts means advocating something, then depending from the fact I'm a PC advocate, an Intel Advocate, an Amiga advocate, a Motorola advocate, and Apple advocate, and so on...

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bison wrote: I'm not sure I understand the distinction you are making between 'Amigas' and 'AOS machines'.

Really?

Amiga: Computer with OCS/ECS/AGA chipset and 68K CPU (expansions aren't relevant).
AOS computer: Computer without OCS/ECS/AGA chipset that runs some version of AOS natively. Examples include the Draco and X1000.

@cdimauro

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That's the usual Ad Hominem attack.

You always see personal attacks everywhere ... always victim ...

BTW Window$ 3.x had "cooperative" multitasking while AmigaOS was "preemptive" so no doubts Amiga had a better design.

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SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

@Massi

Quote:

BTW Window$ 3.x had "cooperative" multitasking while AmigaOS was "preemptive" so no doubts Amiga had a better design.

Windows 3.x was great improvement over previous versions. However, its desktop (Program Manager) was horrible. By 1992 AmigaOS was still more than competitive (preemptive multitasking, clever localisation, datatypes, basic drag/drop etc.), on the other hand chipset developement stagnated and Amiga never regained great advantage it had in 1985/1987.

@Thorham

We had similar discussion about sub-groups of "Amiga" hardware on Wikipedia "Amiga models and variants" page. Current consensus gives Amiga computers (Commodore and AT) to one group, AmigaOne to another and other AmigaOS compatible (Draco, Minimig) to third group. Such division is not ideal (where should I write about Amiga Mini? ), but as nobody invented better concept, it will probably stay as it is...

@cdimauro

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There's no definition of "normal PC", but if someone has one, well, he can report it.

Most sold models, I guess. However, this would be market dependend (eg. US vs Czech Republic).

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The point is that they were rare birds, since the vast majority of them killed the o.s. to take full control of the machine.

Great majority, sure, but titles I mentioned were among the best games.

@Massi

Quote:

Massi wrote: @cdimauro Quote: That's the usual Ad Hominem attack. You always see personal attacks everywhere ... always victim ...

So you can explain why you labeled as "PC advocates" who simply reported FACTS.

If you don't like FACTs, well, I can understand.
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BTW Window$ 3.x had "cooperative" multitasking while AmigaOS was "preemptive" so no doubts Amiga had a better design.

It was an implementation detail. In fact, it was transparently lifted with Windows '95.

Of course, the Amiga o.s. had it from the beginning. And I really appreciated it.

But the it's also a FACT that the o.s. crystallized over its defects, and it's basically the same after 30 years, whereas other o.ses greatly evolved and became MUCH more solid and secure.

@pavlor

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pavlor wrote: @cdimauro Quote: There's no definition of "normal PC", but if someone has one, well, he can report it. Most sold models, I guess. However, this would be market dependend (eg. US vs Czech Republic).

And customer-dependent, so PCs sold with different hardware according to customers' needs.
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Quote: The point is that they were rare birds, since the vast majority of them killed the o.s. to take full control of the machine. Great majority, sure, but titles I mentioned were among the best games.

No doubt, but all together how much of the marked made? 1%? We can ignore them...

@cdimauro

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No doubt, but all together how much of the marked made? 1%? We can ignore them...

These were games I played most. Ignore them? Not!

@cdimauro

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But the it's also a FACT that the o.s. crystallized over its defects, and it's basically the same after 30 years, whereas other o.ses greatly evolved and became MUCH more solid and secure.

What OSs? Windows and Mac OS? I don´t think these were affected by numerous bancruptcies of their parent companies...

Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia - 1993 Edition

Amiga had a Workbench interface too simple, not much professional. It easy to use, but very poor in quality.



Windows 3.x had istead an interface that could made professional software with interactive complex system. Hihg Quality assured!

Last edited by Seiya on 23-Jun-2015 at 09:46 PM.

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@Thorham

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Thorham wrote: Quote: bison wrote: It has been replaced, by whatever one used to post to this forum. The problem is that a lot of people don't seem to like the replacement as much as the original (myself included (partially)). I obviously meant replaced on Amigas and AOS machines. Both Amigas and AOS machines can do better than AOS.

Case in point: AmigaOS can be replaced with Linux-based Debian on X1000 systems, which is more capable than AmigaOS is most ways, yet many people don't like it. (Although not all, as evidenced by the existence of the Amiga PPC Linux forum at this site.)

Last edited by bison on 23-Jun-2015 at 09:43 PM.

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"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@pavlor

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pavlor wrote: @cdimauro Quote: No doubt, but all together how much of the marked made? 1%? We can ignore them... These were games I played most. Ignore them? Not!

OK, but statistically they are not significant.

@pavlor

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pavlor wrote: @cdimauro Quote: But the it's also a FACT that the o.s. crystallized over its defects, and it's basically the same after 30 years, whereas other o.ses greatly evolved and became MUCH more solid and secure. What OSs? Windows and Mac OS? I don´t think these were affected by numerous bancruptcies of their parent companies...

Apple was about to go bankrupt around '96 or '97 (I don't remember the exact year, now). She was saved by Microsoft which invested some money, and ported Office and Internet Explorer.

Anyway, Microsoft introduced the memory protection starting from Windows 3 (it required a 286; with 3.1 it supported 386 also): well before Commodore bankrupt. And the o.s. already supported resource tracking, virtual memory (286 minimum), and didn't publicly exposed its internal structures. Does it count or not?

And Windows NT, which introduced full virtualization (and a rock-solid system), pre-empted multitasking, ACL, and an advanced filesystem (NTFS), was introduced in 1993. Again: is it good example or not?


@Seiya: the Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia is a good example, but I prefer that the discussion stick to games, as KimmoK pointed-out previously (albeit it didn't respected himself). Otherwise we discuss of too much arguments, and it's already a mess.

@cdimauro

ok :)

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@Seiya: you're passionate about games. You can better help reporting some VGA or SVGA games which can be compared to the Amiga version. Even if they are not same, but are similar, can be good to see the state of the art of gaming.

But it's better to move to the other thread, PC vs Amiga, and let this for King Kong's absurdities.

on youtube you see many Amiga vs PC, but i made a new version of Amiga and PC.
Whatch it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B68KdTH4kiY

@cdimauro
however there are many games that are the same for Amiga and PC (VGA and AGA) to see some interesting things.
some are better on AGA other are better on VGA.

on my Amiga vs PC - New Versus i want to show something.

Last edited by Seiya on 23-Jun-2015 at 10:58 PM.

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@Seiya: I saw. The problem, as usual, is represented by the conversion quality.

P.S. Now... sleep time!

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote: @Massi [quote] Massi wrote: @cdimauro [quote]But the it's also a FACT that the o.s. crystallized over its defects, and it's basically the same after 30 years, whereas other o.ses greatly evolved and became MUCH more solid and secure.

MacOS didn't particularly though, did it?

Chris

@Seiya

Quote:

Seiya wrote: on youtube you see many Amiga vs PC, but i made a new version of Amiga and PC. Whatch it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B68KdTH4kiY @cdimauro however there are many games that are the same for Amiga and PC (VGA and AGA) to see some interesting things. some are better on AGA other are better on VGA. on my Amiga vs PC - New Versus i want to show something.

Turrican 2 came out for PC in 1995 while the original Amiga Turrican II came out in 1991. The Amiga was far ahead of the average PC regarding side scrollers with parallaxing graphics, long into the nineties.


The Amiga had some features and advantages from the beginning the average PC did never have, and that was PAL/NTSC. It made it suitable for lots of stuff the average PC couldn't do. Not only for many video games but also video titling and multimedia, and for a reasonable Price. Just look at Scala MM400 and InfoChannel for instance.

Last edited by Hillbillylitre on 23-Jun-2015 at 11:27 PM.

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Using: One Commodore C64 - One Commodore Amiga 500 - One Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running Amiga DOS - One Hellbillylitre Amigatwox86x64x6000x running Windows7

That stupid annoying PC pointer that jumped around the screen because it didn't have real sprites.

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Using: One Commodore C64 - One Commodore Amiga 500 - One Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running Amiga DOS - One Hellbillylitre Amigatwox86x64x6000x running Windows7