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resle 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 1-May-2015 2:28:10
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 500
From: shanghai

Quote:
@resle That was an awesome and probably accurate explanation!


@realize

Thanks - but no big feat, I have produced 15 or so years of canned speechs, doublespeak and general corporate/exec boilerplate myself with a grin - so I am quite familiar with this stuff.

The secret sauce is that people will always read what they want to read, if you keep the message vague enough. Write "restructuring" to your staff and they will think someone will be moved to new positions when in fact everyone is just getting fired. Write "reassessing strategies" to investors and they will think the company is coming up with some big surprise plan soon - when in fact you mean "we have no clue / our previous strategy failed badly"

Now, this community is the quintessential example of the above. This is what makes it possible for certain companies (hint: plural) to rape a bunch of amigans' dreams, hopes, and wallets. This is what makes it possible for some mediocre developers and "artists" to receive donations for vaporware and praise for unfinished, amateurial stuff.

Blind trust + Personal interpretation + Exploiting
Does it ring a (church) bell?

Last edited by resle on 01-May-2015 at 02:29 AM.

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ne_one 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 1-May-2015 3:40:25
#22 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 866
From: Unknown

@resle

Quote:
this community is the quintessential example of the above


Perhaps some portions of the community may be included in that category.

For the most part, I'm sure people simply want to be honestly informed - sycophants, moderates and ne'er–do–wells included.

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agami 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 1-May-2015 8:23:30
#23 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 545
From: Melbourne, Australia

@TRIPOS

One day in the not too distant future, possibly before the end of May, Hyperion will have some sort of news update on their site which will serve as an announcement of the various changes that have been made for a healthier and more prosperous company going forward.

In truth, I don't expect any great revelations or deep insights into the inner workings of the company. Hyperion is after all a private company and any news it shares with the public is entirely voluntary and generally serves as PR. Therefore I am not expecting to see anything beyond encouraging marketing speak. What I take away from that by reading between the lines may be quite similar or very different to what you or @resle, or @pavlor, or @realize (to name a few) take away from it. But then again, those of us who would like Hyperion to be more forthcoming are not representative of Hyperion's target demographic

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Boot_WB 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 1-May-2015 9:50:00
#24 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@blizz1220

Quote:

blizz1220 wrote:
@TRIPOS

Quote:
"by opening up its shareholdership"


Changing the legal form of a company which might have
been privately owned into shareholdership where investors
may buy shares and influence decisions of company.
[...]
Probably the one who buys share of company large enough
to be entitled to that position or on the other way someone
who will be more competent in milking out more cash out
of company's assets sort of speak.


Not all types of share endow the shareholder with voting powers. Always read the smallprint, especially when a lawyer makes a vague statement offering to sell you shares in his preciousssss.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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blizz1220 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 1-May-2015 12:45:12
#25 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@Boot_WB

Well I really don't see point in revisiting this thread
or at least change it's name to "anything goes".

Bankruptcy is a mean to protect company owner from
paying for obligations of a company but can only be
applied if company owner didn't break any laws in
the near past so reading what was said one thing
that can be verified is that owner of Hyperion did
in fact run legitimate business (take away Amiga
factor from it) so probably shouldn't be mocked
in forums right now.It's not like many didn't see
this coming from far far away.

"Legal mess" is a right legal term for where Hyperion
is now legally and before statements can come it has to be
resolved and it can't be done overnight.

But badmouthing legitimate business going through
bankruptcy/reorganization isn't really ethical ...

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Boot_WB 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 1-May-2015 13:09:44
#26 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@blizz1220

Quote:

blizz1220 wrote:
@Boot_WB

Well I really don't see point in revisiting this thread
or at least change it's name to "anything goes".


Agreed. Just correcting the assumption that selling shares == selling influence.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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blizz1220 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 1-May-2015 13:18:40
#27 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@Boot_WB

Well I imagine that if you bought 50 % of
shares of company you would at least get to
talk with company management ? :)

If not I would get legally angry

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Boot_WB 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 1-May-2015 13:30:53
#28 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@blizz1220

Quote:

blizz1220 wrote:
@Boot_WB

Well I imagine that if you bought 50 % of
shares of company you would at least get to
talk with company management ? :)


Example:

"Most companies have only one class of shares, ordinary shares, but it is increasingly common for even very small private companies to have different share classes. This may be done for various reasons, such as to be able to vary the dividends paid to different shareholders, to create non-voting shares, shares for employees or family members, etc. A company can have what classes of shares it like,s and can call any class of shares by whatever name it chooses. Apart from ordinary shares, common types are preference shares, non-voting shares, A shares, B shares, etc (sometimes called "alphabet shares"), shares with extra voting rights (sometimes called "management shares"). The share class system is infinitely flexible. Different classes of shares, and the rights attached to them, should be set out in the company's articles of association. "

http://www.companylawclub.co.uk/topics/classes_of_shares.shtml

Quote:
If not I would get legally angry


And we're back to reading the small print...

Last edited by Boot_WB on 01-May-2015 at 01:31 PM.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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blizz1220 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 1-May-2015 13:45:41
#29 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@Boot_WB

UK is part of Common Law countries like US and
it's not the same as Euro-Law countries so I imagine
Corporate Law is different ...

Common law countries have tendency to allow more
legal freedom for trade while Euro-Law countries are
little more conservative on that issue.

A lot more protection by law , and law is stronger than
any contract so small printed clauses wouldn't be
taken into consideration if they are not permitted by law
of the country.

No idea how Belgium law stands now though ...

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Rob 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 1-May-2015 14:25:51
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5804
From: S.Wales

@TRIPOS

Is there an aftermath? I realise that some people were obviously upset that the decision didn't go the way they fantasised it would.

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agami 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 2-May-2015 7:20:21
#31 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 545
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Rob

There's always an aftermath.

I wouldn't go as far as saying I "fantasised" but yeah, I contemplated. I didn't wish anyone any ill will, rather I was focused on the silver lining of the misfortune that has been visited upon the "beloved" company. I mean, it couldn't get much worse than what it has been over the past five years.

And even if AmigaOS 4.x disappeared quietly into that good night, well there's a silver lining in that scenario as well; At the very least I wouldn't have to listen to the sycophants gushing over the minutest of improvements released on schedules only glaciers could keep up with.

Last edited by agami on 02-May-2015 at 08:46 AM.

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Trixie 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 2-May-2015 8:18:15
#32 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1783
From: Czech Republic

@agami

Quote:
into that good night

Nice Dylan Thomas reference

_________________
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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Boot_WB 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 2-May-2015 9:12:01
#33 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@blizz1220

Quote:

blizz1220 wrote:
@Boot_WB

UK is part of Common Law countries like US and
it's not the same as Euro-Law countries so I imagine
Corporate Law is different ...

Common law countries have tendency to allow more
legal freedom for trade while Euro-Law countries are
little more conservative on that issue.

A lot more protection by law , and law is stronger than
any contract so small printed clauses wouldn't be
taken into consideration if they are not permitted by law
of the country.

No idea how Belgium law stands now though ...



Not certain with CVBAs but BBVAs can issue up to 1/3 of their shares as non-voting shares under Belgian law.

Ultimately it comes down to what proportion of the shareholdership is being opened up, and who retains the remainder.

If Ben retains 51% ownership and therefore the controlling share regardless of other votes, what would be the point (for the shareholders)?

30/30/40 with all shares having voting powers would seem to be an attractive proportion, whilst maximising inward investment - 30% retained by current owners, 30% to a new director, and 40% to outside ownership.

This kind of split gives _shareholders_ the deciding vote should there be a disagreement between director and incumbent owner), but also allows the director/owners to overrule should there be an agreed plan of action at some point.

Imho any proportion where the current owner retains the controlling vote would most likely lead to 'more of the same, but with your money this time.'

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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resle 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 2-May-2015 9:29:06
#34 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 500
From: shanghai

One thing is sure:

if they really want to sell shares, no matter how, they will have to disclose beforehand every single detail about their operations with the interested buyers.

Unless they count on finding someone gullible enough to put money on the table blindfolded just for the, uhm, greater good.

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Boot_WB 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 2-May-2015 9:32:25
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@resle

That strategy has served them so far.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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number6 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 2-May-2015 18:25:12
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10624
From: In the village

@Boot_WB

No idea where to post this, since the parent thread is locked now.

I refer you to:

domain expired

It has been updated:

http://whois.domaintools.com/hyperion-entertainment.biz

Quote:
Expires on 2016-03-15 - Updated on 2015-04-30


#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

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Boot_WB 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 2-May-2015 22:37:50
#37 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@number6

That does leave certain questions from your linked post hanging wrt authorising outgoing payments.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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ferrels 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 2-May-2015 22:52:46
#38 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 803
From: Arizona

@thread

People who buy shares expect a return on those shares. Currently, Hyperion has nothing to lead an investor or anyone else to believe that they'll ever pay a dividend on any shares they sell, so even if they decide to sell shares, it isn't like people will be lining up to buy them. Hyperion is bankrupt for a reason. Hyperion is selling a product that no one wants and until that changes the only people who will invest in the company are the handful of OS4 lunatics who lay awake at night wringing their hands because OS4 might finally be out of our misery.

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pavlor 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 2-May-2015 23:00:51
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8983
From: Unknown

@ferrels

Quote:
Hyperion is bankrupt for a reason.


Hyperion is not bankrupt.

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Hyperionmp 
Re: Unanswered questions in the aftermath of Hyperion's bankruptcy
Posted on 2-May-2015 23:11:12
#40 ]
Hyperion
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 502
From: Unknown

@ferrels

I realise this may be deeply upsetting to you but Hyperion is NOT in a state of bankruptcy not even in the widest sense of the word (like a chapter 11 like status).

Take a look at the official Belgian overnment website:

http://kbopub.economie.fgov.be/kbopub/zoeknummerform.html?lang=en&nummer=466.380.552&actionLu=Zoek

No shares were sold.

We have brought in an additional director to handle operational affaires.

That's all there is to it although we expect significant strides to be made as a result of his involvement.

He was instrumental in pushing the AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition out prior to the end of the 2014 and he is bringing in his expertise as a project manager.

SInce it takes a while to get this through the red tape, this has not been published yet officially. It wil be soon enough.

No carry out with your trolling, I expect nothing less.

Ben Hermans
Director Legal

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