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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
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PosterThread
blizz1220 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 15-Sep-2015 1:34:56
#221 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@umisef

I would use the term "Copyright Violation" instead but yes I see
a problem but "technical guy" said (or what I read he said) "I'm
not admitting to any legal accusation and these actions were taken
to rectify situation".

As for the laws that would be the ones but I'm not reading all of those
3 countries law and law practice.Too much pain and I would need legal
translation probably (regular wouldn't be good enough).I would guess that
if Piru sued (which I hope is not the case) he would use court of his
country.Implementation of that convention is done by each country by
ratifying the convention and passing needed law changes.

Other thing would be what compensation would Piru want and what
damages came from this ?

I just don't like way it's handled.

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cdimauro 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 15-Sep-2015 6:16:45
#222 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@blizz1220

Quote:

blizz1220 wrote:
@cdimauro

Off course I can't argue what I don't understand and have
no doubt that you and Umisef made correct conclusion.

What bothers me that it's already stated as "Copyright Infringement"
(that's going too far , if going that far is needed then go all the way)
and the way it was handled.Stating that against company damages it's
reputation and leaves it open for court case.The fact that SDK was
changed doesn't make thing any lighter because it was once available
for download.I'm not trying to take any side here but there was an
apology which was well worded.If there is something else that could be
done Piru can share what it is on his site.

If thread was "MOS code written by Piru part of Amiga OS 4 SDK" I
wouldn't see any problem with that.But does that code in that SDK
makes it Copyright Infringement is different.And what law should
one be reading in this case ? Which countries ? They are not the
same.

umisef already answered, but I've to recall again that Hyperion already did the same mistake with MUI4. And the SDK "fix" also proven out of any doubt their continuously, illegal, behavior.

And yes: it IS copyright infringement.

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cdimauro 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 15-Sep-2015 6:19:04
#223 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@umisef

Quote:

umisef wrote:
@blizz1220

Quote:
But does that code in that SDK makes it Copyright Infringement is different.


There might be an argument that the header files in question don't meet a certain threshold of creative endeavour which is required to be eligible for copyright protection.

The header clearly shows the verbatim copy of the content. They also did the stupidest thing in this case: copying the comments.

So, it IS a clear copyright infringement. Absolutely no doubts about it.

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blizz1220 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 15-Sep-2015 10:30:47
#224 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

If so confident I suggest legal action.I can't imagine that Piru
won't be able to get legal help in this matter (and considering
that it is sure win then he won't have to pay for that either , lawyer
will get his fees from other side , same for court taxes , lost
time etc.).That site looks kinda like a verdict already.That would
make sure this doesn't happen again , right ?

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broadblues 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 15-Sep-2015 12:27:06
#225 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4411
From: Portsmouth England

@cdimauro

Quote:

but I've to recall again that Hyperion already did the same mistake with MUI4.


Since you have an obsession with facts, it worth pointing out that Thore and Jens did the same with MUI, not Hyperion.

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

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noXLar 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 15-Sep-2015 16:40:14
#226 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-May-2003
Posts: 660
From: Norway

@broadblues

haha

+1

_________________
noXLar -AmigaOne X1000&Sam460ex
2xAmiga 1230 33mhz 128MB Indivision ACA 1200 MK2 USB PCMCIA WIFI 60GB&DVD-ROM OS 3.9

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 15-Sep-2015 16:42:28
#227 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11390
From: Norway

@cdimauro

Quote:
NO, absolutely NO: he does NOT have to give any credit if he doesn't want, because that's part of the computer science history / literature / recipes.


I only suggested it be the nice thing to do, not that he has too.

I think most light-bulb companies will agree it was Thomas Edison who invented the light-bulb.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Sep-2015 at 06:49 PM.

_________________
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Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 15-Sep-2015 17:06:03
#228 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11390
From: Norway

@wawa

Quote:
thats expectable. you cant take for granted that whatever project you try to push others will storm in to help you. especially if they are of limited interest to the general public and possibly also if you have been known for taking sides with questionable entities.


The meatball monster is real, I tell you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLfdNh0aH8F1c3kiM-imq_bGHbxUaSzlrS&t=2&v=3AKA6h7QZtw
Quote:
due to past events there isn't many skilled people left anyway, most are good for little but fighting on forums. that's sure.


That is the real problem, time constrains and lack developers; I cannot find any other excuse. Talking about my own post count is has accumulated over the years, as result of being active for long time.

If day is divided into parts.
a hobby developer like me spend 6/7 hours sleeping.
8 hours at work.
1 to 2 hours driving the car.
1 hour eating.
That is 18 hours; it's about 6 hours left to hang on the forums, arguing about 200 lines of code
And few hours at end of the week for coding.

_________________
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Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

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cdimauro 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 15-Sep-2015 20:27:00
#229 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@blizz1220

Quote:

blizz1220 wrote:
@cdimauro

If so confident I suggest legal action.I can't imagine that Piru
won't be able to get legal help in this matter (and considering
that it is sure win then he won't have to pay for that either , lawyer
will get his fees from other side , same for court taxes , lost
time etc.).That site looks kinda like a verdict already.That would
make sure this doesn't happen again , right ?

You're asking to the wrong person. For me the situation is very well defined, but it seems that Piru doesn't want (or is not able) to further proceed against Hyperion.

@broadblues

Quote:

broadblues wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:

but I've to recall again that Hyperion already did the same mistake with MUI4.


Since you have an obsession with facts, it worth pointing out that Thore and Jens did the same with MUI, not Hyperion.


I've no problem to regret.

However the problem remains if Hyperion has included that work on the SDK or any other product.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@cdimauro

Quote:
NO, absolutely NO: he does NOT have to give any credit if he doesn't want, because that's part of the computer science history / literature / recipes.


I only suggested it be the nice thing to do, not that he has too.

I think most light-bulb companies will agree it was Thomas Edison who invented the light-bulb.

But they don't write it on any light-bulb.

As umisef already explained, it doesn't make sense to give any credit for algorithms which are consolidated in computer science.

Imagine if a coder has to give a tribute for ANY algorithm: he would spend most of his time doing that, instead of generating code.

BTW, do you know the authors of all algorithms that you know/use? I don't. I just use them, and that's fine.

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Massi 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 17-Sep-2015 9:58:59
#230 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2011
Posts: 519
From: Rome, Italy

@All

I didn' t go through all posts.

I guess the main stream operating systems, for example, are also made of stolen reserved rights and stolen software.

_________________
SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

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wawa 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 17-Sep-2015 10:54:18
#231 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Massi

Quote:

Massi wrote:
@All

I didn' t go through all posts.

I guess the main stream operating systems, for example, are also made of stolen reserved rights and stolen software.


thanks for guessing in favour of your opinion. if it suits you.

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Massi 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 17-Sep-2015 12:27:23
#232 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2011
Posts: 519
From: Rome, Italy

@wawa

Well you can take my guess as my opinion no problem.

_________________
SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

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broadblues 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 17-Sep-2015 12:35:29
#233 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4411
From: Portsmouth England

@Massi

Before you bumped it with your simplistic guess, this thread had falen off the front page!

Think before you bump

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

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Massi 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 17-Sep-2015 12:45:52
#234 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2011
Posts: 519
From: Rome, Italy

@broadblues

I stated before I didn' t read all the posts and thus I don' t know about this specific OS4 case.

My "simplistic guess" as you say is about other cases not Amiga related.

_________________
SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

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cdimauro 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 17-Sep-2015 20:09:48
#235 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

@Massi: other cases should be proved. Here we have solid proofs of what happened...

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kolla 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 17-Sep-2015 22:42:31
#236 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1511
From: Trondheim, Norway

If you are not willing or able to defend your copyrights legally, for all practical purposes, your rights do not exist. Some would argue, and have argued for decades, that copyrights in reality do not exist and never did. Personally I agree, once you have created something and released it into public, you can not expect people to not copy it. It's not as if the people behind MorphOS are all angels and never breached copyrights themselves in their pasts. They will say they "grew out of it", that it was "ok" back then, but that is of course bullocks. Early releases of MorphOS needed components from AmigaOS to work properly, AmigaOS had a EULA (which is a bullshit construct at same level as copyrights) that the OS (and hence parts thereof) could only be used on Amiga hardware. This "case" is about as sensational as someone running OS4 on WinUAE.

http://svenskefaen.no/cdne/

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Leo 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 17-Sep-2015 22:59:18
#237 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

Quote:

AmigaOS had a EULA (which is a bullshit construct at same level as copyrights) that the OS (and hence parts thereof) could only be used on Amiga hardware. This "case" is about as sensational as someone running OS4 on WinUAE.

I'd be curious to see this EULA.

_________________
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ferrels 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 17-Sep-2015 23:25:04
#238 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 849
From: Arizona

I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised that Hyperion has infringed. Hyperion has a history of unscrupulous behavior ranging from not paying its programmers to not paying its creditors....hence the bankruptcy and restructuring. If Hyperion is willing to stiff its own employees and creditors it's certainly willing to stiff opensource programmers and people not tied directly to Hyperion.

I'm surprised that Eliyahu hasn't shown up at this thread and started pounding his "ban hammer" like he's done on A.org

Say anything negative about Hyperion or TrevorDick there and you're banned for life.

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tonyw 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 17-Sep-2015 23:59:05
#239 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3198
From: Sydney (of course)

Oh, give it a rest. We didn't knowingly take code from MorphOS. It was just an open-source library that someone copied from a repository for use with MUI (an open-source contribution). The rest of us didn't even know it had happened until the complaint was published in unjustified triumph.


_________________
cheers
tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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wawa 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 18-Sep-2015 0:48:48
#240 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@tonyw

Quote:
The rest of us didn't even know it had happened until the complaint was published in unjustified triumph


i understand the preference was to be left unknown, and now that someone has published the information to the general public before the involved ever knew, it is very incovenient. sheds some light at communications even inside what i would think is a team..

btw, dont you have a common repository and receive notifications on commits including content of changes? curious..

Last edited by wawa on 18-Sep-2015 at 01:10 AM.
Last edited by wawa on 18-Sep-2015 at 01:09 AM.
Last edited by wawa on 18-Sep-2015 at 12:49 AM.

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