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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
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PosterThread
itix 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 14:51:08
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Daytona675x

I agree Piru could waited few days more.

Edit: actually no. It was right...

Last edited by itix on 12-Sep-2015 at 07:30 AM.

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itix 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 15:06:11
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@kamelit0

Quote:
Does the Morphos dev team ever used CBM includes or any other materials based on them (book etc.) to build their own ones in one way or another? (same for autodocs , I don't even talk about having access to the original source code which was spread back then by AT)


I don't know because I came to the MorphOS team much later, in 2005 or 2006. I know only that autodocs covering 3.x API is coming from AROS. For header files, I have no slightest idea who wrote them. But if you compare them using diff tool they don't match ever line by line (i.e. different number of spaces everywhere).

I certainly read CBM books and autodocs inside out and know lot more of internals than average developer.

When I had to document OpenCatalog() in locale.library I did look at the original autodocs so that it won't look even accidentally similar to the original text. I had seen it many many times already.

Quote:
To me carbon copy or a smart copy where no one can see the difference is the same thing in the end.


Then don't copy.

Quote:
If your anwser is no then can you explain how they were build?


You can certainly to use MorphOS SDK to build OS4 and its programs. It is not prohibited. In fact when I build my AmigaOS projects I use headers from the MorphOS SDK.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 16:29:57
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11390
From: Norway

@amigawiki

Quote:

amigawiki wrote:
@NutsAboutAmiga

You say OS4 is violating copyrights and patents? This is bad.


Well yes, we might need to have btrees removed from MorphOS and AmigaOS. As it was last patented by Apple Inc, if we have not payed royalties to use it, Apple might sue Piru.

http://www.google.com/patents/US5283894

If you remember little dispute between Apple and Samsung a few years back, it is a possibility.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Sep-2015 at 04:40 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Sep-2015 at 04:40 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Sep-2015 at 04:31 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 16:42:43
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9115
From: Unknown

@itix

Quote:
For header files, I have no slightest idea who wrote them. But if you compare them using diff tool they don't match ever line by line (i.e. different number of spaces everywhere).


Please, tell me, why there is empty line between "#define ERROR_NO_MORE_ENTRIES 232" and "#define ERROR_IS_SOFT_LINK 233" in dos.h of MorphOS 3.9 SDK?

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umisef 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 17:49:00
#65 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1675
From: Melbourne, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
As it was last patented by Apple Inc


That's like saying this patents the wheel.

Just because someone uses a btree in a patented innovation doesn't mean they patented the data structure.

Considering the data structure was introduced by Rudolf Bayer in the proceedings for a 1971 workshop, any patent (which would have to precede the publication) would be well and truly expired by now.

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ASiegel 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 17:56:47
#66 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 195
From: Unknown

@OlafS25
The part about the timezone graphics is absolutely untrue. I designed them more than a decade ago so I should know.

I find it very surprising that Georg would make a baseless accusation like this.

@ phoenixkonsole
Quote:
Both parties are playing "companies".

I fail to see how Harry "Piru" Sintonen is "pretending to be a business" by publishing a note on his own private website that discusses a copyright violation relating to work that he himself had created.

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smf 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 18:19:32
#67 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2003
Posts: 304
From: Vxj, Sweden

We all know that the morphos devs spend alot of time looking in the amiga sdk so i can not believe that Thore did anything intentionally wrong.

In my book Thore is a real hero, a big thank you for reviving the original mui and also bringing it to os4. I use it on all my rtg amigas. I hope we see Mui5 from you someday.

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jorit2 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 18:42:12
#68 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 235
From: Unknown

@eder

Quote:

eder wrote:
@TRIPOS

The same Evert Carton that said : AROS is "probably illegal".


I've come to accept that this will haunt me forever.
It would help though if you would not take this message, the AROS being illegal, out of it's context. But I don't even hope for that anymore

Evert

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jorit2 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 18:53:53
#69 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 235
From: Unknown

@NomadOfNorad

Quote:

NomadOfNorad wrote:
@BSzili

If it's one guy, on his own, who cut corners like that and hoped it wouldn't get noticed, then that is an entirely different thing than if Hyperion as a company made a decision to include that bit. It sounds rather more likely it was the former, rather than the latter. And yet we have this other guy then making a big stink across multiple forums that "Hyperion stole my stuff!!!" Not very professional, I'd say. oO

On the other hand, if it was just this one guy inserting this one little blob of stuff into the SDK, then you can bet that guy is going to at least have a stern talking to by the staff at Hyperion, one that will burn his whiskers clean off, and he will richly deserve having his whiskers burned clean off. oO


The problem being that Hyperion is the publisher, and a commercial entity, Hyperion is liable for the mistakes of it's developers.
And errors do occur, as in "shit happens", but then Hyperion should have corrected the matter. Looks like they didn't even bother. I can't see the so-called "corrective actions" or the release of an updated SDK as ... call it "adding insult to injury".
And I agree with Piru, the mere fact that they did publish an update is an admission of guilt.

I also agree with Piru, that regardless of the gravity of this offense, it's actually somewhat pathetic^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hironic behaviour for a company that's always been happy with threats of legal action in similar but the-other-way-round cases.

And about the whiskers being burnt off, I have my doubts but I'll happily be proven wrong

Quote:

But the MOS btree guy going in breathing fire and spitting nails about "Hyperion as a company stole my stuff!!!!" isn't exactly the wisest of actions either. Oo I'd say he, too, deserves to have his whiskers burned clean off via SOMEone's stern talking to.


If you do look at Pirus's message, it's actually very level-headed. He did contact Hyperion about the matter ...

Evert

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terminills 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 19:13:00
#70 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1388
From: Unknown

@jorit2


You need to donate now. iirc you owe 30 to the charity of your choice. :)

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"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

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smf 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 19:15:12
#71 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2003
Posts: 304
From: Vxj, Sweden

@jorit2

Quote:
He did contact Hyperion about the matter ...


I'm not so sure he did, that would have destroyed the fun.

Last edited by smf on 11-Sep-2015 at 07:15 PM.

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jorit2 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 19:20:41
#72 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 235
From: Unknown

@terminills

Quote:

terminills wrote:
@jorit2


You need to donate now. iirc you owe 30 to the charity of your choice. :)



That would be 40, not 30. Ever heard of Final Calc ?

That would actually be 50, including this one :-p

Evert

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terminills 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 19:28:51
#73 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1388
From: Unknown

@smf


Quote:


by smf on 11-Sep-2015 14:15:12

@jorit2
Quote:

Quote:
He did contact Hyperion about the matter ...


I'm not so sure he did, that would have destroyed the fun.


And yet you seem so willing to imply he didn't.

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terminills 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 19:29:09
#74 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1388
From: Unknown

@jorit2


Is it really 50 now?

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sundown 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 19:41:07
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5115
From: Right here...

@jorit2

Quote:
And I agree with Piru, the mere fact that they did publish an update is an admission of guilt.

How about thanking Hyperion for a quick fix? Or is this damned if you do, damned if you don't?

MUI isn't part of OS4, it's a contribution, but I agree the responsability for errors falls into Hyperions lap.

NomadOfNorad is a former classic user, never got involved with any NG systems, so never involved in the red/blue war, so basicly an outsider looking at the antics of a few mos supporters who enjoy every chance to put down Hyperion. What he posted was right on target, so it seems the blue side is doing more harm to themselves with these kind of posts.

My hats off to itix for being one of the sane mos supporters here.

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terminills 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 20:25:33
#76 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1388
From: Unknown

@sundown

Quote:
How about thanking Hyperion for a quick fix? Or is this damned if you do, damned if you don't?


The problem is how you define "fixed".

Is fixed silently replacing the file while pretending nothing happened?

Or is it someone who is a figurehead coming out and saying "Oh sorry during our creation of the SDK we hadn't noticed that there were problems with any files"?

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jorit2 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 20:27:12
#77 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 235
From: Unknown

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote:
@jorit2

[quote]
How about thanking Hyperion for a quick fix? Or is this damned if you do, damned if you don't?


I have a feeling I won't have you change your mind.

But I did download the SDK, yes, the updated version, if only for not having to rely on hearsay.

Changing a comment style from /* */ to //, with very limited change of wording, 'cause that's basically what it comes down to, is not what i would call a fix. So I stand by my original comments, including the "adding insult to injury" part.

I do happily admit I have a strong bias against Hyperion, and sure, it does taint my posts and my attitude towards everything Hyperion, there's no sense in denying that. But I can for the love of ... not understand how you can claim with a straight face that this is a fix ...

Quote:
What he [NomadOfNorad ]posted was right on target, so it seems the blue side is doing more harm to themselves with these kind of posts.


I beg to differ

Evert

Last edited by jorit2 on 11-Sep-2015 at 08:34 PM.
Last edited by jorit2 on 11-Sep-2015 at 08:29 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 20:32:24
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9115
From: Unknown

@jorit2

Quote:
I beg to differ


Your choice.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 20:33:52
#79 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1768
From: Unknown

@ASiegel
My post is a reaction to this thread and this gives the impression that someone stole something from mos.

I understand now that this is a wrong assumption.

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sundown 
Re: Copyright Infringement in OS4 SDK
Posted on 11-Sep-2015 20:55:04
#80 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5115
From: Right here...

@jorit2

Quote:
I have a feeling I won't have you change your mind.

Nope, but to be accurate, I'm supporting the os4 developer team more then Hyp.

Quote:
Changing a comment style from /* */ to //, with very limited change of wording, 'cause that's basically what it comes down to, is not what i would call a fix.

Your're getting picky now, if no one is complaining, then thats a fix.

Quote:
I do happily admit I have a strong bias against Hyperion, and sure, it does taint my posts and my attitude towards everything Hyperion,

Was pretty sure that is the case, but I do value honesty.

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