@pavlor

Quote:

If I heard Cloanto´s prsentation in Neuss correctly, they work on some sort of support for PowerPC emulation for Amiga Forever, including more than 4 GB RAM (yes he mentioned support for 64 bit CPU - not a problem if you use QEMU CPU core).

Quote:

So, the next Amiga Forever will have power pc emulation with a zorro bridge with gigabyte class ram which you will be able to use. There will be a synthetic zorro board for sharing data between host and guest.

Quote:

The most elegant solution was to do zorro boards. That is being used to write from amiga to host and from host to amiga

List of refinements given.

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so you need native Amiga OS drivers for all these things we mentioned.

Then a question is asked that clearly is meant to prompt comment about this being the path to X86 for Amiga. I'll skip the long details and historical Apple examples cited and just jump to "yes", since this is clearly what he thinks.

#6

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@pavlor

A1222 sure but when? Remember the minimig+?
Kamelito

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: If I heard Cloanto´s prsentation in Neuss correctly, they work on some sort of support for PowerPC emulation for Amiga Forever, including more than 4 GB RAM (yes he mentioned support for 64 bit CPU - not a problem if you use QEMU CPU core).

Support for 64-bit CPU doesn't necessarily mean support more than 4 GB of memory. It means for sure that x64 is used, so it'll be possible to use the extra 8 general purpose ("integer") registers (plus another 8 for the SIMD unit), which helps A LOT the emulation in general, and the JIT in particular, so there should be increased performance.

@cdimauro

i thought the same. it might be actually connected to the x64 host support in winuae and fsuae being implemented. this would mean that also ppc emulation receives host 64bit update, im not sure if jit i ready, one needs to read cloesly on eab and im not so interested in the topic.

Last edited by wawa on 21-Oct-2015 at 11:01 PM.

@zzd10h

it does not sound so:

Q&A Solie

1) Regarding A-Eon ALICE project, is Hyperion plan to increase the RAM & GFX memory of OS4 Classic ?
Not at this time.

@OlafS25

Yes, I know, it's exactly what iposted here :
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=40650&forum=16&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0#771541

;)

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I'm quite disappointed about the summary, compared to previous years, albeit the nice efforts of Hyperion and A-EON.

I really don't understand the reason of the X5000 existence and variants. What's the reason for another AmigaOne computer, while the X1000 does the job just fine (at least for me and I'm sure for many others) and the price tag will be approx. at the same levels of X1000? What specific gains will have the new X5000 few users compared to those of X1000?

Surely, both systems will be supported (well, it would be outrageous to drop support for a 3000 EUR computer just like that), but again X1000 is out a couple of years now and still no on-board ethernet, among other things!

1.2m investement in hardware two years ago, why not in software where AmigaOS 4.x significantly lacks, and quite badly in some areas? Or to boost further development of AmigaOS?

Just my thoughts.

Last edited by Phantom on 21-Oct-2015 at 11:47 PM.

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@zzd10h


Yes I saw it after I posted

disappointing... on the other hand I expected it

they want sell their expensive hardware dongles (X5000 and so on)

@Phantom

the reason for dropping X1000 and replacing it with some longer supported is that a-eon runs out of processors for X1000. Both computer are expensive toys for those who can and want afford it. Perhaps X5000 is a little faster but hardly justifying to buy it when you already own X1000.

@Phantom

I would have invested the money in ISA change (f.e. to ARM) to get away from the slowly dying PPC platform. But Trevor obviously wants to add some PPC toys to his collection, it does not make any strategic or economic sense.

@Phantom

Quote:

I really don't understand the reason of the X5000 existence and variants. What's the reason for another AmigaOne computer, while the X1000 does the job just fine (at least for me and I'm sure for many others) and the price tag will be approx. at the same levels of X1000? What specific gains will have the new X5000 few users compared to those of X1000?

The scarcity of PA6T chips meant that production of the X1000 needed a replacement. While the price of the X5000 is still extremely it's still substantially less than the X1000.

Advantages over the X1000 are that the the CPU, memory and PCIe are faster.

Quote:

Surely, both systems will be supported (well, it would be outrageous to drop support for a 3000 EUR computer just like that), but again X1000 is out a couple of years now and still no on-board ethernet, among other things!

Even old Phase 5 PPC cards are still supported at the moment so I would say that the X1000 will be supported for some time to come. I guess that the driver for on-board ethernet is low priority because the PCI card in everyone's machines work well enough.

1.2m investement in hardware two years ago, why not in software where AmigaOS 4.x significantly lacks, and quite badly in some areas? Or to boost further development of AmigaOS?

They are investing in software development too. There's the new version of Personal Paint, Warp3D drivers for RadeonHD cards and a few other things. They also have licenses for a number of other applications, DVplayer and Tunenet and OctaMED, Image FX and Alladin 4D plus a few other bits and pieces.

@Rob

pantom voices valid concerns of a user. i dont think he needs to be concerned about his particular platform, because of what appoears a more current one, except it dies and there is no replacement. but if i have invested in, i would do that with certain expectations, many of which were backed up by promisses for years and years.

Quote:

They are investing in software development too. There's the new version of Personal Paint, Warp3D drivers for RadeonHD cards and a few other things. They also have licenses for a number of other applications, DVplayer and Tunenet and OctaMED, Image FX and Alladin 4D plus a few other bits and pieces.

oh. quite everything of this is as if stuffin old socks. or making old cotlete hot, if you will. or thrying to date an old girlfreiend after twenty years. since there is about nothing up to date there, old amiga apps needs to be ported native to os4 with some adjustments. not that i dont like these apps, but these are completely different philosophies and approaches, then and today. trying to force that only to prove the legacy sake, im not sure it gains anything. except it would be really to improve usability, which in many cases is really handicapped, according to what we are accustomed today.

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @cdimauro i thought the same. it might be actually connected to the x64 host support in winuae and fsuae being implemented. this would mean that also ppc emulation receives host 64bit update, im not sure if jit i ready, one needs to read cloesly on eab and im not so interested in the topic.

The QEMU's JIT use x64 from long time, and is quite solid.

The only thing to care on is the FS/WinUAE one, because it's fresh new, and there might be bugs there. But the FSUAE guy fixes them very promptly, so don't care about it: it'll quickly become solid.

@Rob

that is ok to satisfy hardcore amigans but for updating the old applications make them interesting for the "real world" it is much more than some small improvements and compile them for PPC. I am also having fun using and playing around with the old software and trying to opimize my environment but that is certainly not typical for most people. And to be taken serious as a professional work platform (or be it only semi-professional) they would need to invest a lot of work. Trevor is despite risking some money still trying to minimize potential losses so I do not think that he will pour huge sums in software development so we are still in the cycle not enough interesting software means not many users means not many sales means not much money to earn means not enough interesting software... also the platform would need unique software and services that differentiate from other platforms and make it interesting to use, offering some old-fashioned graphical programs brings there not much.

@cgutjahr

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Apparently, the Friedens think the community owes them an apology

And now I see references to this, as well as Chrome, Mozilla, new bounty, etc. elsewhere.

If possible, I'd like to know why any of this is relevant given what HJF said at Neuss. I'm going to post the exact references he made here, in hope that a new distorted discussion based on what people "think" was said does NOT continue.

Quote:

there were some issue with 3rd party library that is used in Mozilla, and I don't think we ever got around to addressing those issues.

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right now, to be honest I'm more inclined to look at Chrome instead of Firefox

Then he spoke of an old android tablet he owned, where Chrome was more efficient, adding that this was his experience and with a resource limited tablet. Then, as opposed to the prior statement which might indicate he was "looking at" or "working with" Chrome...

Quote:

I did have a look at Chrome for a while but to be honest I lack the time. It's simple as that.

After that reference is given to those things taking his time, such as the gdb debugger. Then he speaks of Amiga beginning as a hobby and becoming work.
Basically he's saying that after "work" that working on his own project (TW), again lacks time. I got the impression that he was also indicating difficulty transitioning from "work" mode to "hobby" mode, but I base that solely on his prior comment about work and hobby.

I don't know whether actually having these quotes would help in coming up with a solution, but at least these are his own words, and not what someone "recalls".

#6

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@cdimauro

Quote:

Support for 64-bit CPU doesn't necessarily mean support more than 4 GB of memory.

That is not what I had in mind. As CyberstormPPC emulation is legal nightmare and QEMU emulates various PowerPC CPUs, you may simply create virtual expansion card with e5500 (and no legal problems ).

@pavlor: ask Toni...