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      /  Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
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PosterThread
Raffaele 
Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 0:42:52
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1852
From: Naples, Italy

I am totally disappointed by X1000, X5000 or Tabor A1222.

I want a new affordable Amiga that will cost a fraction of the prices of those motherboards. So I want to hire a bounty starting from the community itself, by producing these motherboards in China. As in the past the Amiga Community was capable to collect money for various projects, it should be not hard to achieve a serious result.

I am intentioned to ask price for first prototyping to these guys that I found with a search on the Internet:

www.waykenrm.com/?gclid=Cj0KEQjw44exBRCu8vfS_bPEtNoBEiQACrt00z0JDzWk-jaFA1p8cEKSaE4UL_6wiFTOytVplxnNSbAaArHq8P8HAQ

So then the first step is to decide main specs for our "Dream PPC Motherboard"

Please be plain and simple by enlisting what processor, form factor and features you want on the motherboard.

At the end of the week we will decide what design will be better and I will send a mail to those guys and asking them how much they claim for a first prototype motherboard.

-----

Next steps:

Phase 2: Collect bounty for prototyping and make a business plan on how about this motherboard shoupd by produced by a China Manufacturer

Phase 3: If we will reach enough money for prototyping then we will start searching a manufacturer.

In the meanwhile we will wait for the designers to create first functioning prototype motherboards.

Once we will have the first two or three solid iron prototypes then one of the prototypes will be sent to Hyperion and another prototype will be made available to MorphOS team in order to let them realize a first OS porting.

Phase 4: We will choose the manufacturer who will reveal itself as more serious, and ask the price for a first batch of motherboards.

Phase 5: Starting of a second bounty for manufacturing our own community motherboard

Any further phases will be discussed if we will reach all these milestones.

-----

Now let's start enlisting the features you desire on the MoBo.

Last edited by Raffaele on 04-Nov-2015 at 12:44 AM.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

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Raffaele 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 1:03:46
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1852
From: Naples, Italy

@Thread

@Example 1:

CPU MPC8640D dual core 32bit upto 1.2 GHz with Altivec
Form Factor ATX or MicroATX
RAM max 4GB DDR2 or DDR3
1 x PCIe 16x
3 x PCIe 4x
Audio 5.1
2 x USB3.0 type C
4 x USB2.0
Debugging Serial port
1 x GigaEthernet
1 x Universal SD/TF cards reader

Did I miss something?

Example 2:

CPU APM Black Mamba dual core 64bit upto 1.2 GHz with NO Altivec
Form Factor ATX or MicroATX
RAM max 8GB DDR3
1 x PCIe 16x
3 x PCIe 4x
2 x Sata II/III
1 x Audio 5.1
1 x Microphone
1 x Earphone
2 x USB3.0 type C
4 x USB2.0
Debugging Serial port
1 x GigaEthernet
1 x Universal SD/TF cards reader

Again did I miss something?

Last edited by Raffaele on 04-Nov-2015 at 01:18 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 04-Nov-2015 at 01:17 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 04-Nov-2015 at 01:15 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 04-Nov-2015 at 01:05 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 04-Nov-2015 at 01:04 AM.

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wawa 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 1:16:50
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6162
From: Unknown

@Raffaele

Quote:
Did I miss something?


so you are going to let carve a serious ppc cpu out of plastic?

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Raffaele 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 1:19:20
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1852
From: Naples, Italy

@wawa

I beg your pardon?

_________________
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RWO 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 1:26:02
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 457
From: Denmark

@Raffaele

Why do you think you can make a Motherboard cheaper?

Just designing it would cost a lot

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RWO 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 1:26:50
#6 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 457
From: Denmark

@Raffaele

Your link is not working from my end of the world.

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Debugging is a state of mind

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sundown 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 2:12:07
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5112
From: Right here...

@Raffaele

Quote:
Again did I miss something?

Yeah, what OS do you plan to run on this new board?

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

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billt 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 2:20:16
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3104
From: Maryland, USA

@Raffaele

How I'd 8640d or black mamba/no Altivec better than what we have, if the goal requires a "serious cpu"?




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billt 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 2:24:03
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3104
From: Maryland, USA

My ideal for a "serious cpu" is

T4240 +Amd a75 fcu/Southbridge

I don't believe that would be cheap. But I'm ok with that.

A couple months ago I bought a t424qds kit to play with. Was not cheap. I'll need to add my own southbridge.

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lylehaze 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 2:30:01
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1124
From: North Florida - Big Bend area.

@Raffaele

I have long believed that many people have seriously underestimated the magnitude of bringing a new design to market.
To be fair, we have some people in our community with exceptional skill in design and engineering, and we as a collective group are a damn smart bunch.

With all that said I applaud your idea. Some others before you have often been critical of the decisions made in the creation of new NG Amiga hardware. So here's your chance! Getting a collective opinion on what parts it might use alone will be a formidable task. Then converting those ideas into a complete design will be the next apparent goal.

How many board revisions do you project that you might need? Those do add to cost as well.

Then comes the task of porting one or more OS's over, and PLEASE don't forget new drivers for everything on your board that we don't already have drivers for. Be careful, any "feature" in hardware that does not come pre-installed with drivers ready will only get you a bunch of grief.

Finally, you'll be ready to scale up production, and you'll be ready to offer us all the best Amiga yet!

I wish you all the luck you can find.

Last edited by lylehaze on 04-Nov-2015 at 02:31 AM.

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BoingBear 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 4:23:12
#11 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2015
Posts: 140
From: Unknown

@Raffalle,

Did you even look at the website you linked to in this thread? Did "I" miss something, or is there zero information regarding designing and prototyping computer motherboards on that site? In fact, I did not see any capability for producing electronic circuit boards on that site.

How can we take you seriously?

Also, how do you propose that a community of 1,000 to 3,000 users fund the design cost of tens of thousands of dollars, if not over one hundred thousand dollars, when it will return nothing but a design, and they will then have to pay an additional sum to have the design manufactured?

I am not saying your idea is a bad one, just seems terribly naive, or uninformed and unrealistic to me.

If we had users in the community who could do ALL of the design of the motherboard and did not charge for their time, then MAYBE some kind of community board could be possible, but otherwise, I don't see this going anywhere.



To have a chance, I think you would need input from both Hyperion and the MorphOS Dev. Team on what they wanted and would be willing to port their OS to, and then get a commitment from them to support such hardware, if it was produced. Without such a promise, or contract to port to the target hardware, it is nothing but a door stop, or another useless PPC Linux system (if that can even be ported to it).

Last edited by BoingBear on 04-Nov-2015 at 04:30 AM.
Last edited by BoingBear on 04-Nov-2015 at 04:27 AM.

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asymetrix 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 5:17:07
#12 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 813
From: United Kingdom

@Raffaele

Discuss with Hyperion etc which chipsets OS4/MorphOS/AROS has best support that is common, then find the motherboard best fits those drivers.

I would rather someone pick an x86 motherboard bare bones system (under 200 USD). mini or micro.

Then set up conversation & signed agreement with Hyperion and total COST of the port to it, then set up a bounty in stages for the port of OS4 to begin.

Keep whatever hardware chosen secret until FINISHED. We dont want a competitor buying out our hardware components.

A blog progressing developments would be good.

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cdimauro 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 5:47:55
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2088
From: Germany

@Raffaele: you're too much ingenuous.

First, you didn't ever took a look at the processors' data sheet to see if they are compatible with the motherboards specs that you proposed.

Second, and more important, in the more optimistic hypothesis that the bounty covers the design of board, you'll go nowhere without a BUSINESS PLAN and (really serious) FUNDs to back the project.

Dreaming is cheap...

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Raffaele 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 5:51:03
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1852
From: Naples, Italy

@RWO

Quote:

RWO wrote:
@Raffaele

Why do you think you can make a Motherboard cheaper?

Just designing it would cost a lot


I do not believe anything. Once we will have clear ideas and had set up the hardware we want, I will check how much money could ask prototyping and manufacturying firms.
I stated it clearly in the starting discussion.

It is obvious that if firms will ask too much bucks, I will report the community about that, and our dream will stop then.

_________________
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Raffaele 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 5:54:28
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1852
From: Naples, Italy

@billt

Quote:

billt wrote:
@Raffaele

How I'd 8640d or black mamba/no Altivec better than what we have, if the goal requires a "serious cpu"?






Serious PPC processor. As infacts, sorry for that but Tabor CPU with no Altivec and with a anomalous FPU is not serious for me.

Last edited by Raffaele on 04-Nov-2015 at 06:01 AM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 5:57:54
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2088
From: Germany

@Raffaele: the only "serious" PowerPC processor is an e6500 with an high clock (2Ghz or around).

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Raffaele 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 6:00:36
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1852
From: Naples, Italy

@Drivers naysayers

Did you read the point in which I said "Give to Hyperion and MorphOS Team two prototypes to play with"?

Once first prototypes are ready we will give them to AmigaOS-Like Makers in order to let them investigate if some portings are possible.

If not, then the second bounty will never reach next stage (the one for manufacturing). Plain and Simple...

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

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Raffaele 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 6:02:46
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1852
From: Naples, Italy

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote:
@Raffaele: the only "serious" PowerPC processor is an e6500 with an high clock (2Ghz or around).


So then if this is your opinion, then please post here all the components you think are the best to fit on a new mainboard.

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cdimauro 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 6:13:22
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2088
From: Germany

@Raffaele: there are several e6500 cores. Pick one with high clock, take a look at how many SerDer lines it has, how it manages/organize them, and then write some reasonable motherboard spec.

You're the volunteer which had the idea of new board: do it!

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tonyw 
Re: Bounty to prototyping a new cheap Motherboard with "Serious" CPU! Phase 1 (Specs)
Posted on 4-Nov-2015 6:39:19
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3160
From: Sydney (of course)

@raffaele

Best get yourself a degree in Engineering first, earn yourself a few million. You're going to need the best part of a million dollars to get this little project off the ground.

Perhaps if every Amiga owner put in $1000, you might get enough to pay for the engineering and manufacture of a few prototypes. But I can think of only one or two people that I would trust to make that investment.

On the other hand, perhaps if you wait to see how the X-5040 turns out, you can just let someone else pay for the design work (as he's already successfully done several times).

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tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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