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      /  Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
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PosterThread
OlafS25 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 10:21:32
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6198
From: Unknown

@tlosm

we propably have a different vision where amiga should and expecially realistic could go

I think the biggest up to now vastly unused potential is "back to the roots" and on 68k with new FPGA hardware and UAE running almost everywhere now including Android

So for me compatibility to the old software is not just fun or a addon, it is critical

if you think other ISAs are the way to go then of course it is different. The problem is that nobody answered is who will do the new software for it?

I still have lots of ideas regarding 68k so we will see and if and when it is done by me (expecially to have something to make installing and starting of games easier when running Aros Vision on a tablet or smartphone)

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tlosm 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 10:21:56
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2724
From: Amiga land

@TRIPOS

yes will be funny have Amiga OS 3.2 and up again on my Amiga Classic ... but only funny like is have AmigaOs 3.x on my C64

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb-iT2LkrLs

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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tlosm 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 10:24:12
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2724
From: Amiga land

@OlafS25

Different Views , the important is have it become real in future in one side or on another

Edit: another of my view is have again the bridgeboards on Aeon systems ... with the today priceless hardware Atom or Arm ... can be simple did it and without too much money.

Last edited by tlosm on 30-Dec-2015 at 10:26 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 30-Dec-2015 at 10:26 AM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 10:33:43
#24 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1198
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Indeed this is utterly worthless for anyone but Cloanto (which is the only one who could theoretically benefit from it, provided they didn't already have the sources). To anyone else it's worthless (and even dangerous, due to potential IP contamination). It's said that OS4 in the beginning used components from "Olsen's" GCC rewrite/port, AROS and MorphOS is also based on rewrites (clean room), but it was a very long time since they covered by themselves anything this 20-year-old mess could potentially have offered, and at least MorphOS and OS4 left the 3.1 realm 1-1.5 decades ago.

Cloanto is the only one I can think of that could have any interest in the 3.1 original, since this has been their core business for the last two decades; nostalgica, preservation of the original versions, historical documentation and collection, providing collectors with their own complete personal Amiga museum (Amiga Forever). And for the last years they have on their own pushed their "Workbench 3.X" to (about) "3.9" level, and in some areas with components having even newer version numbers than those in 3.9.

Cloanto is the only one I could think of willing to spend time and effort trying to set up the necessary old tool chains and ancient compilers (a massive and difficult task) needed to once again compile the true original 3.1 components, for whatever reason. But it's quite probable that not even they care about this...

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 10:34:03
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6198
From: Unknown

@tlosm

you still need one of the expensive PPC systems for it... and if produced in low (propably very low) numbers it would be very very expensive propably

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 10:38:41
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6198
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

even Cloanto is not interested... to make it workable you would need a lot of time, either it would cost lots of money if you pay somebody for it (and for what purpose?) or you find someone that does it for free (doubtable either). Perhaps it would be interesting to improve and recompile certain components but for sure not the whole OS. If the sources would not be legally cursed it would be interesting to look inside for nostalgic reasons and to have some hints about improving compatiblity. That is all value I see today.

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tlosm 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 10:38:44
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2724
From: Amiga land

@OlafS25

Nope :) A pci bridge board can be used everyware if there are drivers
in any way there is the baseline for who have the hardware right now

today im gaving a good tips investment to Trevor

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 10:45:23
#28 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1198
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@TRIPOS

Quote:
Cloanto is not part of such agreement


Cloanto ... think otherwise...


OK, once again , Cloanto did already prove you wrong on this more than a year ago, by doing exactly what you say they "couldn't" do.

They have already done it. They have constantly been doing it ever since.

So. There.

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 10:46:55
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6198
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Ok

Trevor is "crazy" too so we will see

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tlosm 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 11:01:30
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2724
From: Amiga land

@OlafS25

What do you think ... PCI board with Z8300 4GB expandable Ram .. the GPU can be an IntelHD Gen 8 and can be used the host gpu like is the mouse and the keyboard...

Pubblic prize 180 euro

One tablet with this canfiguration prize 180 euro and have both at same time Android and Windows

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 11:04:55
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6198
From: Unknown

@tlosm

you mean board is available and just drivers needed?

That would be more realistic

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tlosm 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 11:11:53
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2724
From: Amiga land

@OlafS25

No board is not available but ... this systems (tablet or mini pc) work with 5 V ... like is the PCI slot .
from X1000 , Tabor and X5000 (i dont know sam 460) are hypervision enabled.
Like are the PC today ... praticcally a bridge board is much more simple to make in hardware compared what was in past.

Drivers are needed in all OS host and Guest

Last edited by tlosm on 30-Dec-2015 at 11:13 AM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
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MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 11:15:40
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6198
From: Unknown

@tlosm

even if we talk about a production run in low hundreds (optimistic guess) that has to cover the development costs. One of the reasons why X1000 and X5000 are so expensive, the part prices are not the biggest problem there

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 11:37:00
#34 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1198
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:

If the sources would not be legally cursed it would be interesting to look inside ... to have some hints about improving compatiblity. That is all value I see today.


I actually think it's kind of worthless for this purpose as well. The API is well documented, pay careful attention to this, pay careful attention to keep the environment as Amiga compatible as possible (31-bit unified memory, big endian, 32-bit single core computing, etc) and free of interfering stuff like virtual memory, semi-memory protection and silly SMP's, and when you have done all this, it comes down to detective work against individual apps using monitoring S/W and error logs. AFAIK the MorphOS team for example has been very good at this, which most certainly is the reason to why MorphOS is the most Amiga compatible "NG" OS. But of course another limiting factor comes from when "NG" OS's runs on non-Amiga H/W like AmigaOne's and PowerBooks. We have had just to accept that.

But as I said elsewhere some time ago, compatibility is becoming less of a factor for "NG" now anyway. We have now reached a point where NG is no longer really "NG" anymore but becoming retro in itself. But without being "the real". So it's neither in "Amiga Forever's" realms for retro/true Amiga fans, nor is it in modern, true Next Generation realms (modern H/W, modern OS features like 64-bit, SMP, resource tracking, etc). It's neither! Stuck in the middle, without having the core benefit of either!

Cloanto has pretty much "The Real Amiga" fully covered. So the only way for OS's such as MorphOS to go from here, is to become truly Next Generation, and this means per definition leaving everything preventing modern features behind, such as the Amiga 68k binary compatibility. Then head for 64-bit, ISA change, etc. And in this sense, these leaked 20-30 year old sources becomes even less relevant.

Again, Cloanto is probably the only one with a potential interest in this. And even that with a huge emphasis on "potential". In reality, probably not even them...

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tlosm 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 11:51:18
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2724
From: Amiga land

Quote:
even if we talk about a production run in low hundreds (optimistic guess) that has to cover the development costs.


i think that kind of hardware can be used not only for us (Aeon) but in industrial and civil use... how much of us have 2 machine working at same time ? i dont think im only one ... with this harware you can have only one case, monitor keyboard and mouse but make the job you do with 2 separate machine

and i will have Aros running on X5000 without problems and without make no conversion :P

Last edited by tlosm on 30-Dec-2015 at 11:52 AM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 11:52:31
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6198
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

where is the niche for a modernized amiga-inspired OS?

Why should people use it instead of better supported mainstream OSs like Windows or linux?

That is what people have to answer... why installing it?

68k has some geek factor and retro is modern today again

A modernized OS like you propose what miss all that.

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tlosm 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 11:54:22
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2724
From: Amiga land

@OlafS25

Quote:
where is the niche for a modernized amiga-inspired OS?


Os X

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 11:58:53
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6198
From: Unknown

@tlosm

as good as Mac? I want to see that

and there is much more software for Mac than for AmigaOS

BTW that is no niche

Apple was and is established at graphicians and art
Windows is for office and most homes
Linux for servers and people that do not want to use the others

Amiga was covering video but has lost this

So where is the niche without retro? Where it would be better than the others?

Last edited by OlafS25 on 30-Dec-2015 at 12:00 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 12:02:47
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9431
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
Cloanto did already prove you wrong on this more than a year ago,


By using older components than in OS3.9BB2?

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tlosm 
Re: Amiga OS 3.1 Source code leaked yesterday
Posted on 30-Dec-2015 12:06:30
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2724
From: Amiga land

@OlafS25



Quote:
as good as Mac? I want to see that


Olaf my intention was say OsX is more inspired to AmigaOS in gui and visual impact ...

not in software ... in any way now it is covering the video editing that we lost

Last edited by tlosm on 30-Dec-2015 at 12:06 PM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

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