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      /  Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
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broadblues 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 13-Mar-2016 1:16:39
#21 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4446
From: Portsmouth England

@Chain-Q

Quote:

FPC is self hosted, and it's written in Pascal.

Okay in that case my comment about gcc macros was not at all relavent and I apolgise for that misunderstanding.

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ilbarbax 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 13-Mar-2016 7:35:50
#22 ]
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Joined: 17-Jan-2010
Posts: 184
From: Italy

@Xenic

in reality no. I never aproached Pascal, I started with Basic. The point is that I saw a lot of work around it in the other platforms and I was just wandering why it wasn't under OS4.
The problem I have, as let say intermediate level coder, is that OS4 miss such type of languages the choiches are from C to Hollywood, nothing in the middle. Exclding E there is no variety.

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Yssing 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 13-Mar-2016 11:34:37
#23 ]
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Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 1084
From: Unknown

@Chain-Q

Yes I would love to do what I can do here.

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Chain-Q 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 14-Mar-2016 1:23:59
#24 ]
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Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 824
From: Budapest, Hungary

@Yssing
In that case, drop me a PM with your e-mail address in it, please.

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Yssing 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 14-Mar-2016 7:42:03
#25 ]
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Joined: 24-Apr-2003
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@Chain-Q

Done :)

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Chain-Q 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 13-Apr-2016 2:51:09
#26 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 824
From: Budapest, Hungary

@Thread:

TL;DR: See The Amazing Screenshotware(tm)

I wrote a longer post here, but then I lost it, feat. Firefox and the AW.net forum engine. Probably for the better, because it ended up as a rant anyway.

Basically: OS4 binutils is broken (see this, plus it puts random crap into the executables - for padding, probably), VLink is broken (got DSI+internalerror - works with MorphOS & classic Amiga). FPC crosscompiling is possible (you need cross-binutils), some kind of native build is possible, but the official build process breaks, because of the binutils issues I mentioned, but there are nightly SVN builds available for OS4 from Alb42. These are cross-builds and untested, but they should work.

I will document how to get to this point in the FPC wiki, so anyone who feels like fighting with this (hi Yssing!) can pick it up from that point. That's it.

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Hans 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 13-Apr-2016 4:22:02
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand

@Chain-Q

Quote:

Chain-Q wrote:
Basically: OS4 binutils is broken (see this, plus it puts random crap into the executables - for padding, ...

I just tried appdir:ld like you did in that screenshot, and it behaved exactly as it should. Well, I can get it to behave in a similar way by entering "appdir:ld" in a bash shell, but in bash it should be /appdir/ld.

Something's definitely messed up on your machine; OS4's binutils is behaving itself on mine. **

Hans


** NOTE: I'm using GCC 5 with whatever version of binutils came with it.

Last edited by Hans on 13-Apr-2016 at 04:22 AM.

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Nibunnoichi 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 13-Apr-2016 6:52:21
#28 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2004
Posts: 969
From: Roma + Lecco, Italia

@Chain-Q

Quote:

Chain-Q wrote:
@Thread:
TL;DR: See The Amazing Screenshotware(tm)

Thank you anyway, will try it one of these days!

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Nibunnoichi 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 13-Apr-2016 6:54:44
#29 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2004
Posts: 969
From: Roma + Lecco, Italia

@broadblues

Quote:

broadblues wrote:
@ilbarbax
Most likely because no one in the OS4 Camp has a strong enough desire to program in pascal.

I'd have it, if you could have some sort of VCL and utilities etc...

Last edited by Nibunnoichi on 13-Apr-2016 at 06:55 AM.

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Chain-Q 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 13-Apr-2016 9:24:21
#30 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 824
From: Budapest, Hungary

@Hans
Well, I used the official SDK from Hyperion's site. But it seems like you can trust random Aminet downloads on OS4 more.

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broadblues 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 13-Apr-2016 11:36:10
#31 ]
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Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4446
From: Portsmouth England

@Chain-Q

1. If you are developer it's agood idea to remove the appdir: entry from the amigaos path. Particularly if you do any cross compiling with the 68k gcc, or if your pascal has linker call ld too or any other reaons to duplicated ld in more than one place.

2. becuase of the amigaos to unix path conversion you can get oddities when things are in the root directory of an assign or volume, thus appdir:ld does the weird thing as it tries to search a unix formatted inlcude PATH

The random crap thing is a known but harmless bug, just don;t do any online banking just before compileing There an option not to pad somewhere , thoug I can't remeber what it is.

It may be fixed in gcc5 not sure.

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Chain-Q 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 13-Apr-2016 11:55:20
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 824
From: Budapest, Hungary

@broadblues
If it costs me two days of my free time, I can't consider that bug harmless...

Anyway. I'm giving it a try with the binutils in the adtools package. Not that it makes any practical difference, except the build won't throw an error at the end.

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Chain-Q 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 13-Apr-2016 13:59:44
#33 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 824
From: Budapest, Hungary

Well, test results so far with adtools:

- Now I get a lockup during gmake. Not while running FPC, but during another make step... Yes, I added more stack.
- It seems now the __amigaos4__ symbol to the executable is added by the linker itself(?), which means you get duplicated symbol errors during linking, if the objects you want to link already contain the symbol. Which means I can't support multiple LD versions w/o patching the sources themselves. Great.

Still not very impressed.

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broadblues 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 13-Apr-2016 14:22:03
#34 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4446
From: Portsmouth England

@Chain-Q


Quote:

- It seems now the __amigaos4__ symbol to the executable is added by the linker itself(?), which means you get duplicated symbol errors during linking, if the objects you want to link already contain the symbol. Which means I can't support multiple LD versions w/o patching the sources themselves. Great.


It's set in the 'specs' file at line 51 (for the version of gcc with the SDK) if it's really a problem you can dumpspecs with

gcc -dumpspecs >myspecs

and edit it out and use the resultant custom specs file.

Though I'm not sure I'd recomend that approach.

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Chain-Q 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 13-Apr-2016 14:54:28
#35 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 824
From: Budapest, Hungary

@broadblues
Well, thanks, not like I'm using GCC itself, really, only binutils.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter, because the adtools LD still seems to have the padding-trash bug, so with 3 more hours of fighting and playing with paths and various versions of GNU tools, I get the same error as with LD in the official SDK (the two last files differ), so yeah.

I guess the last few posts also answers the original question of the topic...

Anyway, I guess that's it from me, we have current FPC which is running on OS4, and is able to produce working executables, we have a working crosscompiler, it's all public code, and we have a nightly build download too (thx 2 Alb42), so I consider my job done here. (The promised Wiki-documentation is still to come, though.)

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eliyahu 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 13-Apr-2016 15:24:46
#36 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1957
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@Chain-Q

Quote:
Anyway, I guess that's it from me, we have current FPC which is running on OS4, and is able to produce working executables, we have a working crosscompiler, it's all public code, and we have a nightly build download too (thx 2 Alb42), so I consider my job done here. (The promised Wiki-documentation is still to come, though.)

thank you for your work on this.

-- eliyahu

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Chain-Q 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 14-Apr-2016 18:04:27
#37 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 824
From: Budapest, Hungary

Quote:
The promised Wiki-documentation is still to come, though.

Well, there you go. Your mileage may vary. Don't try this at home. Stunts are performed by trained professionals. No animals were harmed, etc, etc...

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Chain-Q 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 16-Apr-2016 22:49:45
#38 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 824
From: Budapest, Hungary

Well, some further curious finds, probably important for C/C++ developers as well - it seems the GNU assembler 2.23.2 bundled with the ADTools (GCC5) package on Aminet, changes the branch prediction bits of some PPC branch instructions randomly.

It changed some BNE+ to BNE- and vice-versa, but others were also affected. So using the GNU assembler from ADTools made the FPC build cycle fail (it's random, compiling the same sources twice might change the bits in the generated instruction).

This of course made no directly observable functional differences due to the nature of the prediction bits, but still, the binaries were different. Because of this, I wouldn't be surprised if it would also affect some already released software for OS4, which was compiled with GCC5.

So finally, reverting to GNU AS (2.18) from Hyperion's SDK, and VLink with a proper linker script, it's possible to build FPC without errors on OS4. I'll change the Wiki accordingly.

I would like to thank Frank Wille of VBCC fame for his help with the VLink linker script and debugging the branch prediction bit problem.

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Chain-Q 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 30-Apr-2016 14:16:22
#39 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 824
From: Budapest, Hungary

Well, after I kicked the command line compiler alive, ALB42, maintainer of the AROS version picked up on the task of getting some of the system libs available for OS4. For now, basic things are available, like DOS, Exec, Intuition, Graphics, Utility, IFFParse, Clipboard, and a few more. Only with the old-style Amiga API syntax though, the Interfaces syntax doesn't work. That would require more compiler work.

But, for the existing FPC/Amiga code that was actually and advantage, so with that, more and more additional packages started to be available. And then he reached the point where the text mode IDE is now running on OS4, not just the command line compiler.



Read more on his blog: http://blog.alb42.de/2016/04/30/fp-ide-for-amigaos4/

Last edited by Chain-Q on 30-Apr-2016 at 02:19 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Why nobody in the OS4 camp is working on the Free Pascal project?
Posted on 30-Apr-2016 15:54:30
#40 ]
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@Chain-Q

+1 Like
Wow, that brings back some memory's of Pascal7.0 for MSDOS.

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