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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4 Software
      /  AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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PosterThread
Lazi 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 3-Aug-2016 8:19:37
#121 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Apr-2005
Posts: 650
From: Pomaz, Hungary

@Severin

Quote:
Face it... We're a bunch of old farts with failing eyesight, screen resolutions are getting much higher so aiss images etc. are getting far smaller for the user to distinguish between a gaussian blur and a motion blur etc. help bubbles are 'bloody annoying things that get in the way all the time', they either have far too much or far too little info depending on the dev. We are grumpy old men!


Thanks! I could not be phrased better!

The too much toolbar images makes it looks like some hieroglyph stele. Good for tourists, but scare the users. Even a "norm" application has text menus, ImageFX just put menuitems to toolboxes. And it works.

One of the latest improvements of OS4 itself has the ability to draw small icons beside menuitems. I am using OS4 everyday but honestly can't remember the picture of any menuitems, but know exactly the name of them. After 12 a human generally very good at short text recognition.

Last edited by Lazi on 03-Aug-2016 at 08:22 AM.

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Lazi 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 3-Aug-2016 8:20:47
#122 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Apr-2005
Posts: 650
From: Pomaz, Hungary

I think before much work is invested to make some old software more modern, it could worth to describe the ideas to the current users.

Amongst the general trolling maybe some good argument could be occur.

Last edited by Lazi on 03-Aug-2016 at 08:28 AM.
Last edited by Lazi on 03-Aug-2016 at 08:21 AM.

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Severin 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 3-Aug-2016 13:38:41
#123 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Aug-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Gloucestershire UK

@Lazi

Personally I'd like to see the ImageFX GUI replaced with MUI, that way the user can decide if they want images, text or both on buttons, adjust the sizes, have bubble hep only when wanted via the help key etc. but I expect Reaction will be used and you have the choice to like it or hate it but not really be able to change it much without custom screens, gui, palette and font prefs files to be created and tweaked over several days.

Last edited by Severin on 13-Aug-2016 at 04:40 PM.

_________________
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PhantomInterrogative 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 3-Aug-2016 15:33:46
#124 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Sep-2004
Posts: 809
From: The Interrogative Lair

@Severin

I've tried the Commander GUI for ImageFX, since it can be customized. It isn't ideal being linked to limited ARexx ImageFX commands.

I'd like the new ImageFX GUI to be somewhat customizable to suit the individual artist's needs, whether it be text buttons, icons, menu items, radio buttons, etc.

In addition, will someone blatantly steal the needle gauge gadget from ADPro for use in ImageFX or any other program?

_________________
I sold my SAM460ex lite... waiting for money to buy a Raspberry Pi... or a Classic A1000 with Buffee... or an A1222... and OS4.3 FE update 11

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K-L 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 10-Aug-2016 18:52:41
#125 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1410
From: Oullins, France

@Amigakit

Will there be an updated format command ? I ask because the new one is totally unable to format an USB disk.

1° I plug the USB disk
2° I hit CTRL+M command in odrer to see the attached device
3° I choose SFS/0 as filesystem
4° It appears as unitialized disk which is normal
5° RMB on the disk and I choose format
6° I select QUICK format and I get Disk is full. The disk remains unformatted

I have used this method for years to format my USB disks/keys

I also tried preparing my USB disk with HD Tool Box but I still cannot format it. And I don't want to use NTFS since this disk will only be used on my X1000 for my backups so I need speed.

Thanks !

Edited : works ok with SFS/2.

Last edited by K-L on 10-Aug-2016 at 06:57 PM.

_________________
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AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700
FPGA Replay + DB 68060 at 85Mhz

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amigakit 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 12-Aug-2016 12:45:17
#126 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2515
From: www.amigakit.com


The new Warp3D Nova (v1.29) with new OpenGL ES 2.0 library (v1.4) running some test demos from Daniel:

https://www.facebook.com/daniel.mussener/videos/1540475809312194/?hc_location=ufi

The boing-ball test demo has been updated to use trilinear filtering now (implemented using
auto-generated mipmaps and the respective OGL filter modes exploiting that)

_________________
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Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | A600GS

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Rob 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 12-Aug-2016 14:18:49
#127 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@amigakit

Spotted that last night.

1024 boing balls
x
800 triangles each
x
25 frames per second
=
20,480,000 triangles per second.

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Xenic 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 12-Aug-2016 16:29:07
#128 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2004
Posts: 1246
From: Pennsylvania, USA

@Severin
Quote:
Face it... We're a bunch of old farts with failing eyesight, screen resolutions are getting much higher so aiss images etc. are getting far smaller for the user to distinguish between a gaussian blur and a motion blur etc. help bubbles are 'bloody annoying things that get in the way all the time', they either have far too much or far too little info depending on the dev. We are grumpy old men!

Aside from vision issues, who can remember the meaning of thousands of tiny images (AISS alone has over 8000 images). Modern computers seem to have moved to pretty over usable. Humans have spent hundreds of years developing written language to convey specific meanings and now our computers are reverting back to ancient pictogram/heiroglyphic languages. One of the most touted features of the "mouse" when it was first introduced was eliminating the need to memorize all the keyboard shortcuts in complicated programs like word processors etc. Since then we've moved on to icon mania that forces you to memorize the meaning of numerous tiny icon images instead of text that conveys concise meaning. It's ironic that programs can have help bubbles with a single word of text to tell you what the tiny indecipherable images mean. Gee, why not have a text gadget to start with?

_________________
X1000 with 2GB memory & OS4.1FE

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amigakit 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 13-Aug-2016 13:27:47
#129 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2515
From: www.amigakit.com

@Rob

Quote:
20,480,000 triangles per second.


I agree, it is impressive on the SAM460. It is amazing how far the project has progressed in just a year.

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Severin 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 13-Aug-2016 19:10:34
#130 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Aug-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Gloucestershire UK

@Xenic

I agree, icon buttons were essential last century when most people were using low resolutions on tv's or 14 inch monitors, even when using dblpal at 720x560 (or whatever it was) one word text buttons took the space of 4 or 5 icon ones, now when 1920x1080 is so affordable (eg. I have a 27" samsung that cost £150 and 22"-23" models go for £100) everyone has got more room for text buttons.

Replacing the fake windows with real ones shouldn't be that difficult.

Here's a mockup I did with MUIBuilder (no idea why no image gadgets show images, I'll read the docs and fix it).



Edit: slightly better grab attached. BTW of the 151 downloaders of MUIBuilder hasn't anyone else noticed there's no Modules drawer to actually generate code?

Last edited by Severin on 13-Aug-2016 at 07:43 PM.
Last edited by Severin on 13-Aug-2016 at 07:23 PM.

_________________
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Visit the Official OS4 Support Site for more help.

It may be that your sole purpose is to serve as a warning to others.

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kolla 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 13-Aug-2016 19:18:22
#131 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Severin

Now try again with German in the buttons.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

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Severin 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 13-Aug-2016 19:27:24
#132 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Aug-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Gloucestershire UK

@kolla

yes it will be quite a bit bigger but you can use a smaller font, smaller button borders etc. it's still far more customisable and can adapt for any size screen.

Didn't turn out too bad as I've never used MUIBuilder before or ever coded anything for MUI.

_________________
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Visit the Official OS4 Support Site for more help.

It may be that your sole purpose is to serve as a warning to others.

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kolla 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 13-Aug-2016 20:29:55
#133 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Severin

Having done quite a bit of translations to Norwegian of various Amiga software, I disagree - it can be _very_ tricky to have appropriate text fit inside gadgets. Typically English speaking programmers do not give you much space to play with, and most of the time, the buttons and gadgets do not adopt to the length of the text and it all looks terrible.

The best is, like MUI typically does, to give the user the choice of icons, text, or both.

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itix 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 13-Aug-2016 23:21:40
#134 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@kolla

MUI and Reaction/ClassAct expand gadgets automatically. It is one of few areas where Amiga excels...

@Severin

You can download code generators separately.

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Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

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BillE 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 14-Aug-2016 9:41:16
#135 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Nov-2003
Posts: 1195
From: Northern Scotland

@Severin

Quote:
Personally I'd like to see the ImageFX GUI replaced with MUI,


+1

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Xenic 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 14-Aug-2016 13:31:53
#136 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2004
Posts: 1246
From: Pennsylvania, USA

@Severin
Quote:
Personally I'd like to see the ImageFX GUI replaced with MUI,

If A-EON wants to port ImageFX to as many Amiga platforms as possible, converting the GUI to MUI would be the best solution. As someone else pointed out, MUI can offer the option of text, icons or icons with text.

I'd be happy with an initial OS4 native port with no GUI changes.

_________________
X1000 with 2GB memory & OS4.1FE

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Severin 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 15-Aug-2016 15:08:39
#137 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Aug-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Gloucestershire UK

@Xenic

Whay I really hope for is a replacement of the existing scanner support amd a total rewrite of the scanner GUI, ImaheFX handled it very badly with it's tiny dithered colour preview. ADPro was far better with full screen greyscale far faster previews and a floating control window. much more sccurate for selecting what you want to scan.

With ADPro you could de a full page preview, select a rough area you wanted, preview it, accurately select the desired area and full scan, with ImageFX you usually had to do a couple more slow colour preview scans and still have to crop the final scanned image as a 1 pixel adjustment on the preview could be a big chunk on the final scan.

BTW back in the mid 90's when scanners where very expensive I used to offer a scanning service at a local shop I helped out in a couple of days a week. PC owners couldn't believe how fast my A4000/060 with P-IV was and the amount of control I had over the scan settings compared to what companies like HP offered, I'd often get batch scanning jobs where specific sizes were required and with adpro I could scan to the correct size faster and with better results than they could at home. Of course having a good scanner helped, an Epson GT-5000.

_________________
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X1000 beta tester, Sam440 Flex (733)

Visit the Official OS4 Support Site for more help.

It may be that your sole purpose is to serve as a warning to others.

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OlafS25 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 15-Aug-2016 15:28:04
#138 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@Xenic

A-eon obviously sees software as mean to sell hardware and OS4 is the main platform, additional 3.X for earning money and Reaction for GUI. That is pretty obvious so MUI will not happen despite being the better and more portable solution.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 15-Aug-2016 at 03:28 PM.

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Rob 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 17-Aug-2016 0:22:50
#139 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@amigakit

Quote:

amigakit wrote:
@Rob

Quote:
20,480,000 triangles per second.


I agree, it is impressive on the SAM460. It is amazing how far the project has progressed in just a year.


I think we're still just scratching the surface at the moment. What can be achieved is dependent on just how far you want to go with Warp3D Nova over the coming years.

20M triangles p/s is about the same league as the GameCube, according to the discussions I've read, so perhaps not as impressive as it might have first seemed but the API is WIP so not a big deal. We should be able to outperform the Wii because a Sam460 with Radeon 7700 is better on paper.
The 464 CPU core is no match for the WiiU's the Radeon7700 is closer to the video hardware you'd find in the PS4 and XboxOne, maybe better. I'd love to know the theoretical and real life upper limit of PCIe Amigas.

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kamelito 
Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Posted on 17-Aug-2016 10:32:49
#140 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 813
From: Unknown

@Rob

I suppose that for such comparison we need to know what is the screen resolution, bit depth, size of the triangles and any other effects they might have.
Kamelito

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