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itix
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 28-Mar-2016 19:02:06
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 22-Dec-2004 Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world | | |
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| @pavlor
Quote:
Nonesense, Hyperion can simply run Petunia as 680x0 without FPU.
Integer unit is compatible with "normal" PowerPC, only FPU isn´t.
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Btw. sometimes PPC FPU is used for other tasks like memory copying and FPU could be used to emulate 68k instruction move16.
_________________ Amiga Developer Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook |
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duga
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 28-Mar-2016 19:02:20
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Regular Member  |
Joined: 1-May-2012 Posts: 228
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Spectre660
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Even a linux PowerpcSPE developer was a surprised when I posted a picture of Tabor ruining the Ubuntu-Mate 16.04 . |
Ruining or running? |
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Spectre660
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 28-Mar-2016 19:23:18
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 4-Jun-2005 Posts: 3918
From: Unknown | | |
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| @duga
Corrected. Thanks.
Quote:
duga wrote: @Spectre660
Quote:
Even a linux PowerpcSPE developer was a surprised when I posted a picture of Tabor ruining the Ubuntu-Mate 16.04 . |
Ruining or running? |
_________________ Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card |
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TRIPOS
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 28-Mar-2016 19:25:48
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Joined: 4-Apr-2014 Posts: 1205
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Spectre660
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 28-Mar-2016 20:02:35
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 4-Jun-2005 Posts: 3918
From: Unknown | | |
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| @TRIPOS
The problem ones with FPU emulation . Mplayer2 video and Mpv video. codecs crash . Firefox/Icewesel . crash on startup . Other Browsers Qupzilla and Midori work . Issues seen under Ubuntu 12.04, Ubuntu 16.04 , Debian 8 and Debian 9. So still not working Mplayer2 mp3 audio playback works but with pauses . Mpv audio works well enough to playback an mp3 even while browsing with Qupzilla and other programs running at the same time .
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TRIPOS wrote: @Spectre660
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Mplayer decoding under Morphos for some codecs is very good |
Indeed! So are many other things! 
Speaking of mplayer, maybe I recall incorrectly, but IIRC ( ) there were a couple of applications you tried on Tabor/Linux that didn't work very well, mplayer being one of them? What were the others? And do they work now at this time?
And no, I'm of course not talking about the specially compiled PowerPCSPE versions... |
_________________ Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card |
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tlosm
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 28-Mar-2016 20:07:23
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 28-Jul-2012 Posts: 2755
From: Amiga land | | |
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| @TRIPOS
from my personal experience on MacMini 1.5 ghz and on PowerBook G4 1.67 i cant watch good 720p video mkv with framedrops ond losing the video sincronization. On OsX side on youtube 320p on powerbook with flashplayer only i was able to see good video but turning on at 720p was make machine become sloowwww... For sure on 720p on G5 2.3 ghz with morphos you can see video good i dont know if mkv or mp4 . but be sure on only one core 1080 mkv with Ac3 you cant play good... 2 cores is the min you will need.
Last edited by tlosm on 28-Mar-2016 at 08:08 PM. Last edited by tlosm on 28-Mar-2016 at 08:08 PM.
_________________ I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB; MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz; #nomorea-eoninmyhome |
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TRIPOS
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 28-Mar-2016 20:12:57
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Super Member  |
Joined: 4-Apr-2014 Posts: 1205
From: Unknown | | |
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| @OlafS25
Quote:
OlafS25 wrote:
"Despite what you might have read in this thread NO pricing for the tabor hardware was announced. The speculated numbers quoted are also vey high. "
it says no decision yet |
Yes of course, no final release price as of yet. And it also says (if you read between the lines, which indeed isn't an exact science since it involves subjective interpretations) that pricing may have been, and probably still is, somewhat of a moving target/rolling stone (downhill, obviously)!
1. €700-€1000 (A-Eon Linux team) -> 2. No, that's not it, that will be to high -> 3. the price point could be low enough to be selling at a loss
OlafS25 and iggy seems to think that pricing is merely about calculating your total costs, adding profit margin, and you have the consumer price. But this is only a part of it; price is also set by market mechanisms like supply and demand, which also includes competing offers (my view is that OS4 migrants has been driving MorphOS sales the last year or so, not new H/W support/multiple licenses) as well as substitutes (see below).
My point is that AeonKit could very well have expected a price of €700-€1000 to be fair and reasonable at one, initial, point in time; it would be about one third of an X5000 and about the same range as a Sam460.
Then they ("recently") became aware that the CPU is kind of flawed and that few people would actually demand such H/W. Limited/low demand. The market has also kind of disappeared overall, due to the poor state of OS4 progress in general, and it will take a very long time for OS4 support to arrive. And now the main selling point for OS4 is for emulation (H/W substitute) in a pre-configured UAE package from Cloanto for a FRACTION of even the lowest imaginable price for Tabor, and key people is already at work in removing the Amiga/PowerUP limitations from UAE to make this a way forward for OS4!
By the time OS4 support for Tabor arrives (if it ever does), they might have to offload the boards for free to some African jungle-nation as part of some third world charity (read: recycling) programme.
That was my point: Tabor Price = Rolling Stone = Down Hill.
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TRIPOS
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 28-Mar-2016 20:24:36
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Joined: 4-Apr-2014 Posts: 1205
From: Unknown | | |
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| @pavlor
Quote:
pavlor wrote: @OlafS25
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What might be unknown is when it will be ready. |
I bet it will be mid year... don´t know what year.  |
Judging from previous experiences (the pattern has been the same for many OS4 H/W platforms) when seeing such very early things as a screen shot like the one Trevor recently posted in his blog, I'd say OS4 support is at least two years away. Under normal circumstances. And "normal" doesn't mean unique low-level OS competence disappearing over the years, H/W with special quirks and needs (like the Tabor CPU), and the previous porting project not even finished yet (X5000). I'd be very surprised if OS4 would be released for the Tabor before 2018. If ever.
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TRIPOS
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 28-Mar-2016 20:27:41
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Super Member  |
Joined: 4-Apr-2014 Posts: 1205
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TRIPOS
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 28-Mar-2016 20:39:27
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Super Member  |
Joined: 4-Apr-2014 Posts: 1205
From: Unknown | | |
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| @iggy
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Right now, I am worried that this device might actually hinder our small community. | Quote:
Tabor I can wait for, especially with this "we will ram it right down their throats" attitude. |
This I totally agree to!
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TRIPOS
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 28-Mar-2016 20:41:06
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Super Member  |
Joined: 4-Apr-2014 Posts: 1205
From: Unknown | | |
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| @eliyahu
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eliyahu wrote: @iggy
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Right now, I would be more worried about the glacial pace of Hyperion's software development than I would be about hardware developments.
If anyone is going to destroy the OS4 faction, it will likely be them. |
that is becoming increasingly clear to many of us.
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Or has it escaped everyone's notice that most of the noteworthy software upgrades recently have come from outside Hyperion's core team? |
no. no, it hasn't.
-- eliyahu |
Wow! You are amazing!
You really take the prize, no competition!
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wawa
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 28-Mar-2016 20:54:28
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
From: Unknown | | |
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before OS4 faction is gone. |
the problem is not what videos you can watch on some hardware or not, or if it is comparable with pc hardware from before ten or twenty years, but that in the context we are speaking about the hardware without particular software completely doenst make any sense. and the state of that essential software looks in every respect very uncertain. |
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TRIPOS
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 28-Mar-2016 20:54:33
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Super Member  |
Joined: 4-Apr-2014 Posts: 1205
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Spectre660
Quote:
Spectre660 wrote: @TRIPOS
The problem ones with FPU emulation . Mplayer2 video and Mpv video. codecs crash . Firefox/Icewesel . crash on startup . Other Browsers Qupzilla and Midori work . Issues seen under Ubuntu 12.04, Ubuntu 16.04 , Debian 8 and Debian 9. So still not working Mplayer2 mp3 audio playback works but with pauses . Mpv audio works well enough to playback an mp3 even while browsing with Qupzilla and other programs running at the same time . |
OK. In Linux.
I think this is a little interesting in context with post #175, post #178 in this thread, and indeed in this other thread post #35 and post #36.
Maybe it won't be "that easy" after all...?
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TRIPOS
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 28-Mar-2016 21:35:54
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Super Member  |
Joined: 4-Apr-2014 Posts: 1205
From: Unknown | | |
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| @tlosm
When watching downloaded video content it also comes down to the definition of "good 720p video" in combination with the noob-level of the encoder (as in the enthusiastic human behind the settings, not the program doing the work).
But there is no way around the need for processing power, even for "basic" things as watching modern movies (and browsing heavy sites, and..., and...)
This is another reason to why arguments like "but it's enough for me, the Amiga is efficient even on low power H/W, not everyone needs x86 performance" fly with me.
Not to mention "but the FPU will be emulated in S/W". And "it will probably work, it doesn't really work that well on Linux right now, but surely OS4 has the resources and competence Linux lacks to make this happen".
Especially not in combination with "It will only cost €700." Or for that matter "€350." Or "€200."
If it can't cope with basic everyday 2016 media usage, I don't want it. I have no use for a downgrade. A G4 mac (laptop, desktop, mini) cost virtually nothing. And there is G5's.
Anything less than G4/G5, is a downgrade.
IMHO, we need SIGNIFICANT upgrades!
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kamelito
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 28-Mar-2016 22:02:40
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Cult Member  |
Joined: 26-Jul-2004 Posts: 836
From: Unknown | | |
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| I'd like to know what's the difference between the two regarding electricity bill. Overtime which one will cost less...
Kamelito
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cryingamiga
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 29-Mar-2016 6:53:22
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Joined: 2-Nov-2015 Posts: 12
From: Unknown | | |
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| The response to Tabor has been far more negative than positive. What I do not understand is how Aeon can make a product like this without, at least what I consider, proper market research. We are a small community and I do not understand why we are not 'consulted' as to what we desire. I have no problem giving Aeon profit provided they make a product I want.
How about trying this:
1) Propose an idea, specs, price, and time frame, to the community 2) Get feedback 3) Go forward or cancel based on feedback
This Tabor project unfortunately seems like a miss. I do not see myself buying one unless the price is less than $200. Even at that price it would not be an instant buy because the value may not be there. I would love to buy a decent NG Amiga.
Please help Aeon. See what the community wants for a given price point. Then deliver it!
Am I being too simplistic in my thought process?
Last edited by cryingamiga on 29-Mar-2016 at 06:55 AM.
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KimmoK
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 29-Mar-2016 7:14:57
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 14-Mar-2003 Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland | | |
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| @cryingamiga
" We are a small community and I do not understand why we are not 'consulted' as to what we desire"
Also I would like to see more openness in R&D phase.
" I would love to buy a decent NG Amiga."
I have SAM440ep-mini. I consider getting Tabor, after it has proven to give no extra head ache vs vanilla SAM usage. SW must work out of the box, performance must be a lot higher than with PPC440/666Mhz. So far X5000 looks a lot more like a safe upgrade, just little expensive. _________________ - KimmoK // For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA // // Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer? |
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pavlor
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 29-Mar-2016 14:18:41
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
From: Unknown | | |
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| @TRIPOS
Quote:
The last part of your post: Am I seeing some sense and realism pouring into you here? Some awakening? |
When someone of your degree of realism calls me sane, I must really start question my own sanity. 
Quote:
I'd be very surprised if OS4 would be released for the Tabor before 2018. If ever. |
This could be nice bet... |
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pavlor
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 29-Mar-2016 14:20:57
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
From: Unknown | | |
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| @wawa
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but that in the context we are speaking about the hardware without particular software completely doenst make any sense. and the state of that essential software looks in every respect very uncertain. |
As I´m content OS4 user even with limited WinUAE experience, I don´t think Tabor could disappoint me.  |
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OlafS25
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Re: Tabor. Let's have a worhwhile discussion about it. Posted on 29-Mar-2016 14:27:20
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6472
From: Unknown | | |
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| @pavlor
bet? 
I guess you think Tabor will be ready before 2018... this year or next year
if you loose you will eat your hat?
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