@TRIPOS

Quote:

TRIPOS wrote: The Commodore A1200 Reloaded is modular by concept. Don't want USB 2.0? Don't want 100Mbit ethernet? Fine, then you won't have to pay for that. What kind of monitor will you use? Choose the suitable video output (with suitable monitor connectors) accordingly! You also don't have to pay for a 020 CPU you will never use (if going for the 030 option from Individual Computers or indeed some other A1200 CPU card), but the option of having a very low cost 020 A1200 solution is there as well, if this is what you want.

Or maybe there will even be an ACA1260 option?


(Click!)

68060 pinout (page 13-2):


(Click!)

Who knows what the future brings?

@TRIPOS

I think Jens ruled out 68060 accelerators years ago on the ground of price and availability. Before anyone says, selling boards with an empty socket is a potential warranty nightmare.

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote: @TRIPOS Quote: It's all about 68k Amiga/Workbench! Without RTG that's not very bearable to use these days.

The C64 doesn't have RTG either. But that doesn't stop it from being a lot of fun, to a lot of people!


Quote:

Quote: Neither PPC, nor OS4 has a place in that "market". This is for Amigans who continued using their Amigas instead of going for the "PPC NG" route some of us did, or for those of us who wants an easy way to return I can't imagine doing that. I only had an 030 @ 40Mhz in my A1200 a tad over ten years ago when I had to call it. It was just too slow. It didn't have an 040. Nor a fast SCSI controller. And a 64 colour Workbench was still slow as well being severly dated.

Too slow for what? Playing OCS/ECS/AGA games? Tracker composing? Demos? AMOS programming? Collecting? Preserving?

Why do you think Amiga/Workbench is today about competing with modern computers? The thought is kind of ridiculous if you ask me. Whatever reason people have to use their Amigas today, it's not to compete with Windows on x64.


Quote:

I was tempted to get a Mac and had no interest in a PC. So bought an AmigaOne instead!

And here is the thing: All Amigaone models are also outdated and waaay too slow as well, they are all 1-1.5 decades behind in performance compared to modern, real world desktop computers. Not as slow as Amiga machines, but it's very far from current technology. Common smartphones outperforms their CPU's, while being run passively cooled and battery powered.

The Amiga/Workbench is retro. Being retro is its quality. Like C64. Atari. Old Nintendos. Either you appreciate these qualities, or you don't (and don't screw it up by fiddling too much with what makes it retro) in which case you can just move on. At the other end of the scale we'll find the x64 platform, which is contemporary and also where the Next Generation is (and this is where future MorphOS will be). The Amigaone/OS4 platform is neither of these. It completely lacks the retro flare, and at the same time it isn't contemporary/future either. That platform is stuck in the middle. Chained to a dead and decaying CPU architecture.


Quote:

Quote: People wanting a real Amiga, but don't mind it being modernized within the defined Amiga/AGA boundaries. Well that doesn't sound like it is modernised at all. For starters, where is the 32-bit per gun palette, that matches the Commodore API? Accelerated copper? Updated blitter with bitmap warping and 3d ability? Not to mention 16-bit multrack Mary audio. And that damned MIDI port!?

Again, here is a list of modernizations coming from both the new case and the new (with warranty) Commodore A1200 Reloaded H/W.

And I don't understand why you want an AGA machine (or OCS or ECS) to be something it's not!

I think you simply don't understand what all this is about...

@Beans

Quote:

Beans wrote: @Dandy Quote: To me, OCS, ECS and AGA are certainly NOT part of what defines the Amiga I love. To me, OCS, ECS and AGA are definitely video modes that ruined my eyes over the years I used them and using them today borders on committing mayhem. Hey, you're addressing fanatics. They LIKE the limitations. That RTG had 16bit color before the end of development, and that 32 bit color is easily and cheaply available doesn't interest them. Why? Who tf knows? Its 'retro'?

Hey jimmy, don't you go throwing stones in glass houses now!

Go have fun with that "unlimited" X5000 of yours instead. Once you've put your money where your "non-fanatic" mouth is...

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote: @CodeSmith It may be faster with 8 bitplanes but will it be fast to use?

The CPU won't have to wait for DMA-slots (a feature that can be switched off, at runtime, without reboot). The Paula, Alice, Lisa are still the same Paula, Alice, Lisa.


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I see two camps of Amiga people.

Only two?




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Those who enjoy the original as it was at the time.

Which is the reason why projects like Commodore A1200 Reloaded, Amiga Forever, etc exists (being "RTG" etc is not it).


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And those who wanted to see it continue and enjoyed using the OS, some becoming AmigaOne owners, OS4 being their OS of choice. I tend to be part of both camps at any one time.

Eh, no, you aren't!

@Mr_DBUG

Quote:

... I believe this monitor can do Amiga images on ...

I'm not sure if you are still talking about Schoenfeld's A1200Reloaded, AFAIK it will have a built in flicker Indivision flicker-fixer / scan doubler.

That's excellent news... Question (maybe dumb, but whatever...) will it be compatible with standard A1200 expansion boards?

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

@ErikBauer

More or less yes, at least ACA and Blizzard boards.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@Hypex - #96:

Quote:

Hypex wrote: @CodeSmith ... I see two camps of Amiga people. Those who enjoy the original as it was at the time. And those who wanted to see it continue and enjoyed using the OS, ...

Let me answer this with a quote from Thomas Morus:

" 'Tradition' is not to preserve the ashes but to pass on the flame!"
(Thomas Morus, 07. 02. 1478 - 06. 07. 1535, London)
(I once suggested this quote to our mate "Iggy" over at Amiga.org for his signature - and he adopted it)

I think this quote reflects my position regarding originality best.

I like old technique - be it Amiga Computers, steam locomotives or oldtimers.
But only as long as they work and are usable.

As soon as they are inoperable (due to the owner insisting in 'originality' instead of doing all that is necessary to keep it in working condition) and only serve as 'dust collectors' - no matter how original they are - they're worthless for me (aside from their scrap value, perhaps), as this equals to "preserving the ashes" in my eyes, and not to "passing on the flame"...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote: @Dandy Quote: To me, OCS, ECS and AGA are definitely video modes that ruined my eyes over the years I used them and using them today borders on committing mayhem Well I don't know if low res modes with lower dithered colours can ruin eyesight.

I think I should better have phrased it this way:
"To me, OCS, ECS and AGA are definitely video modes that contributed to ruin my eyes ..."

Of course there were other reasons as well.

Like e.g. my 'self-built' monitor for my first computer (a CBM 620 (a CBM 610 with 256 kB RAM instead of 128)), which was more of a 'ray cannon'...

Quote:

Hypex wrote: But I think using a TV as a monitor like I did for years can. Still in the final days of my A1200/non-RTG I was using a DblPAL 720x576x6 screen on as VGA monitor.

With the Amiga, my first monitor was a CBM 1081. I tried it with a TV before, but too many details were lost on the screen.

For example, if I played "Interceptor Fa-18", it was not possible to see the MIGs on the radar screen in the cockpit, as the TV pixels were too big.
IIRC, one TV pixel had the size of 4 CBM 1081 pixel...

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Hypex wrote: Then my AmigaOne with CRT for a few years unti I got an LCD. My eyes were fine for years. Until I headed for my forties and then went downhill.

I can't remember precisely - but it must have been early in this millenium (2000 or 2001) when I finally got my CVPPC (after having ordered it on the Amiga fair in Cologne in Nov 1997 together with my CSPPC, which I could take home with me the same day) and a 19" Belinea CRT.

Today I also exclusively use LCDs, but the damage to my eyes was already done by the time I switched...

B.t.w. - I'm 59 yrs old now...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@TRIPOS

Quote:

The C64 doesn't have RTG either. But that doesn't stop it from being a lot of fun, to a lot of people!

No but the interface is more simple and usually used as a text mode. However it does have chunky graphics so would be fast even with more colours.

Quote:

Too slow for what? Playing OCS/ECS/AGA games? Tracker composing? Demos? AMOS programming? Collecting? Preserving?

Using the WB and doing usual file management. Browsing the internet. Even here is slow. Loading pictures. Which are both slow and dumbed down on CLUT screens.

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Why do you think Amiga/Workbench is today about competing with modern computers?

Is it? I thought it was about continuing to use AmigaOS and using that as a preferred OS. The same as it was to use it back in day as a computer.

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The thought is kind of ridiculous if you ask me.

Well I don't see it as about competing. Like I said I see it as continuing. I've continued to use AmigaOS on my A1200 to now on my AmigaOne machines. Despite other machines. The OS on other machines has continued but that isn't seen as ridiculous, since it continued constantly. Amiga just continued slower, being lapped by other OS.

Quote:

All Amigaone models are also outdated and waaay too slow as well, they are all 1-1.5 decades behind in performance compared to modern, real world desktop computers.

That's funny as the AmigaOne XE compared well at the time when compared with a Mac. And when the X1000 came along the nearest to compare it too was an old PowerMac and it didn't match up. When I saw my first dual 1.8Ghz CPU PC I thought it would be cool to see an Amiga[One] machine at that speed. But by the time the X1000 came around it wasn't so cool anymore.

Quote:

Again, here is a list of modernizations coming from both the new case and the new (with warranty) Commodore A1200 Reloaded H/W.

And as I pointed out lacking improved graphics and sound modes. Plus that MIDI port. But while you mention it.

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Use the keyboard to switch the computer on/off.

It doesn't shut down the computer and close all programs does it?

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And I don't understand why you want an AGA machine (or OCS or ECS) to be something it's not!

It's not about something that it's not to me. It's more about where it should have been. Taking it to the full potential. AGA brought in features that were needed but it also didn't do it in the best way. And didn't upgrade certain features of graphics or audio.

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Only two?

Haha. Well there's 68K and then the rest. But yes still two I think. Where 68K ended up as and those who wanted to continue it in some form.

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Which is the reason why projects like Commodore A1200 Reloaded, Amiga Forever, etc exists (being "RTG" etc is not it).

RTG existed before AGA came on the scene. By the time AGA came out the Amiga should have had RTG already. AGA was a poor mans Amiga chipset by the time it came.

Quote:

Eh, no, you aren't!

I have an OS3.9 A4000 and OS4.1 AmigaOne machine, what do you mean?

@Dandy

Quote:

Let me answer this with a quote from Thomas Morus: " 'Tradition' is not to preserve the ashes but to pass on the flame!"

Nice one! Yes I would agree with that.

And I will respond in song.

Cheap Trick. The Flame.

@Dandy

Quote:

Of course there were other reasons as well. Like e.g. my 'self-built' monitor for my first computer

Ouch. On a cross between a C64 and C128. Worse than a green screen.

Quote:

With the Amiga, my first monitor was a CBM 1081. I tried it with a TV before, but too many details were lost on the screen.

Still a proper monitor but sitting close to any CRT screen couldn't be good.

Quote:

For example, if I played "Interceptor Fa-18", it was not possible to see the MIGs on the radar screen in the cockpit, as the TV pixels were too big.

That's interesting. I played F/A 18 Interceptor and I could see dots fine on the TV screen. But then again I had good eyesight back then.

Quote:

Today I also exclusively use LCDs, but the damage to my eyes was already done by the time I switched...

I got an LCD shortly after they were catching on. But would have been better getting an LCD TV for my A1200 years earlier. Quote:

B.t.w. - I'm 59 yrs old now...

Quote:

B.t.w. - I'm 59 yrs old now...

I'm 44 next week.

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote: @TRIPOS Those keys need updating. The A1200 case looks nice in the black. But the keys don't match. The colour needs updating. Probably grey like a C16 was with white on top I'd say.

Now it's happening!




(Click!)

You can use a Keycaps matching simulator to see which combinations you like the most!

Personally, I like the two-colored original keyboard the best.

Maybe in combination with a black or blue case:





Or it would be cool with a case/key combo matching the original breadbox C64 (like the picture of the new C64C case above), but that sadly isn't an option.

Anyway, there will be several keyboard layouts!

These will be there from the start:

* UK English
* US English
* DE German

And these will be unlocked via stretch goals (in order):

* SW/FI Swedish & Finnish
* FR French
* NO/DN Norwegian & Danish
* ES Spanish
* CH Switzerland



(at $28,942 it has already reached more than a quarter of the goal, so...)



Back it here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/a1200housing/new-compatible-keycaps-for-amiga-computers

@TRIPOS

Italian layout is missing

@kyle

No Italian Layout....

BTW, White and Black layouts are just
Dark blue seems more Indigo/Violet to me

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

Philippe has stated in the kickstarter comments that if all stretch goals are met they can add even more layouts.

@TRIPOS

Who in the world ever claimed I wasn't a fanatic?
My opinions are a view from the inside.

And an X5000 makes eminent sense to me when compared to the performance of a fully dressed out A4000.
Better performance and I already have legacy hardware.

I'm not selling my A2000 or my CD32 any time soon, or giving up my NG hardware, the developments in the last few years have been pretty remarkable for a "dead" platform.

_________________
Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"

@Beans

I think people fortunately will have different choices, vampire cards in different original systems, standalone devices based on apollo core and this project. The first two try to lift the original system to a new level, a kind of "what could have been". This project seems more trying to be as original as possible. I think there is room and interest for both concepts, there are people who think FPGA-based solutions are not real enough, so those might prefer Reloaded instead.

Regarding NG I think all NG OSs inherited the limitations of 3.X for compatibility reasons and thus NG makes no real sense today. Of course it is possible to make a drastic cut to add modern features, the problem is where comes the new adapted software and will the old software run on it? But anyway... everyone can spend the money different

@IanP

Quote:

IanP wrote: Philippe has stated in the kickstarter comments that if all stretch goals are met they can add even more layouts.

I don't see the problem really. Most keys will be the same, all key layouts will have the same basic keys "A", "B", "C" etc (multiplied by number of colors). Only one or a couple more keys needed per additional key layout, and this in turn only requires a few more prints on already existing plastics. Should hardly mean any extra cost at all.

Anyways, the kickstarter has already collected $45,130 SGD, which is almost half the goal in only a few days, so...