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      /  Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
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kolla 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 1-Nov-2018 17:40:42
#501 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1418
From: Trondheim, Norway

@K-L

Who are this "us" you keep referring to?

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michalsc 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 1-Nov-2018 17:46:51
#502 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 262
From: Germany

@K-L

Please define "Most of us". Are there any polls you are referring to?

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K-L 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 1-Nov-2018 18:55:35
#503 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1348
From: Oullins, France

@michalsc

No, there isn't (just think about silent majority).

But sorry, I interfered in your usual Hyperion bashing. Keep going and forget about what I said, it would be a pity for me to derive you from your obession

_________________
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Webmaster of Amiga-NG.org (French)

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michalsc 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 1-Nov-2018 19:11:20
#504 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 262
From: Germany

@K-L

Quote:
No, there isn't (just think about silent majority).


Ok, point taken. But, the same as in politics, I would just assume the majority just don't care ;) I just don't like the generalisations.

Quote:
But sorry, I interfered in your usual Hyperion bashing.


Please, I hope you weren't talking to me directly. I try to stay as far away as possible from anything like that and just do my stuff. If you don't agree please be so kind and show me how often was I involved in such pointless discussions?

Quote:
your obession


My obsession? What, where?

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K-L 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 1-Nov-2018 19:14:47
#505 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1348
From: Oullins, France

@michalsc

Sorry, in french, we have a distinction between singular "you" (tu) and plural "you" (vous).

It was to be seen as a generality and not aimed at you personnaly

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aria 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 2-Nov-2018 6:24:50
#506 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Nov-2014
Posts: 25
From: Unknown

@paolone

Quote:
I guess they opened the can of worm when they re-registered (or at least tried to) the Amiga trademark in the US. That ignited the most unexpected and astonishing escalation of fights and legal battles this platform has seen since years.


Do you believe The Lawyer?

Hyperion had started registering Cloanto's trademarks in 2016, while the Amiga mark was up for re-registration (with Cloanto applying for an "intent to use", not an actual registration) only later, in 2017.

Hyperion tried to pretend that things happened in the opposite order (or that it didn't file first), looking for an excuse to justify its attempt to foreclose on the Collateral (i.e. get all of the Amiga IP via The Lawyer filing some legal papers). Which in turn was a desperate move, since we all saw after they filed their accounts how troubled they were (more than half a million in debt, while simultaneously claiming to be below the threshold to have to report for VAT, which was less than twenty-thousand Euros in turnover).

Quote:
I personally consider this suing action against Hyperion's AmigaOS 3.1.4 the most respectable reaction to Hyperion registering "Amiga Forever" trademark. Probably Hyperion thought it would have been a smart move to put something on the business table, but it actually set Cloanto up for vengeance.


Except that (per Amitopia quotes) Cloanto didn't take steps against AmigaOS 3.1.4. So how can it be vengeance?

Hyperion possibly engaged in libel by making that unproven allegation on Amiga Future? For all we know, Amino and/or Amiga Inc, are behind the cease and desist notices to Avangate and Digital River, not Cloanto.

Quote:
I am incredibly amazed by all this. Little companies litigating for the domain over a niche market


Are you sure that the fight is for a market, rather than for principles, including the right to defend yourself if you are attacked by a "psychopath lawyer"?

Quote:
This all seems a foolish remake of the famous 80s Highlander movie.


What about Kurosawa's Seven Samurai? There you have people fighting for their own souls, not for money. This is how I see Cloanto.

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paolone 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 2-Nov-2018 8:12:16
#507 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1060
From: Unknown

@aria

Quote:
Do you believe The Lawyer? Hyperion had started registering Cloanto's trademarks in 2016, while the Amiga mark was up for re-registration (with Cloanto applying for an "intent to use", not an actual registration) only later, in 2017. Hyperion tried to pretend that things happened in the opposite order (or that it didn't file first), looking for an excuse to justify its attempt to foreclose on the Collateral (i.e. get all of the Amiga IP via The Lawyer filing some legal papers). Which in turn was a desperate move, since we all saw after they filed their accounts how troubled they were (more than half a million in debt, while simultaneously claiming to be below the threshold to have to report for VAT, which was less than twenty-thousand Euros in turnover).


That's a good point. Keeping up with the timeline of this psychodrama is very difficult, and the other topic (Amiga Inc looses trademark) is getting really difficult to follow (too many pages to read again). I just assumed Hyperion registered Amiga Forever AFTER Cloanto tried with Amiga Inc. I've also overlooked, and I don't know why, that Amino/Amiga Inc were the ones actually taking action against AmigaOS 3.1.4, while Cloanto was just suspected of helping them (financially, and legally since they're sharing the same attorneys - but this can just be due to the fact that when several companies are opposing the same entity, they generally associate under the same legal ambassadors).

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paolone 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 2-Nov-2018 8:15:43
#508 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1060
From: Unknown

Quote:

K-L wrote:
@michalsc

Sorry, in french, we have a distinction between singular "you" (tu) and plural "you" (vous).

It was to be seen as a generality and not aimed at you personnaly


That's what also happens in Italy with 'tu' (singular you) and 'voi' (plural you). Fact is, however, that we're not speaking either french or italian here, so you should handle 'you' with extreme care when talking. People can go quickly upset when someone pretends to talk collectively.

That's something I had to learn as well.

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PR 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 2-Nov-2018 8:54:02
#509 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1936
From: Suomi-Finland

Keep It Positive and go outside for a walk. Shut the devices whatever.

I'll go outside to do work. No complaining Please. (About my work offcourse..)




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terminills 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 2-Nov-2018 10:51:27
#510 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1387
From: Unknown

@K-L


I call BS. If you didn't infer it was aimed towards someone you would not have replied to them in such matter. Also Michal wouldn't be in either singular or plural versions

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number6 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 2-Nov-2018 13:19:14
#511 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10837
From: In the village

@klx300r

This thread was originally concerned with;
Quote:
Workbench 3.1 (v40.43) update


i see people are still confused about what happened to this:
where is the new 3.1?

1/2 a year after the fact Hyperion Entertainment C.V.B.A. did respond:
Quote:
Hyperion Entertainment CVBA Steven Prohaska Yes in our view we are legally able to sell this worldwide, that is also _in part_ where the court proceedings are about. It is 'for now' not available outside the EEA DIGITALLY through Avangate because Cloanto launched a complaint with them for selling in the US.And Avangate decided to just block it for every country in the world. Now that we have the European Trademark we can sell in Europe at least. Yes if we had the time before you asked for a refund we would have sent a download link and serial number as we did with other customers who experienced the same problem before we resolved it. If you would buy it now you will get a download link, where to register and a serial number definately.


Source

#6

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K-L 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 2-Nov-2018 16:38:08
#512 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1348
From: Oullins, France

@terminills

Thanks for your clever intervention (as usual with all of your interventions BTW).

(Just to be clear : I am sarcastic here).

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Webmaster of Amiga-NG.org (French)

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Snorg 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 3-Nov-2018 0:38:53
#513 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Feb-2018
Posts: 117
From: Unknown

@K-L, @all

Yeah, who needs comraderie when we can have sarcasm ;)

Last edited by Snorg on 03-Nov-2018 at 12:41 AM.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 3-Nov-2018 12:55:05
#514 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10837
From: In the village

@thread

Apologies for on-topic post:

In addition to
this note and link to Alinea

There is now a listing for 3.1.4 here:
http://amigaonthelake.com/

Supplementary information and comments:
https://www.facebook.com/HyperionEntertainment/

#6


Last edited by number6 on 03-Nov-2018 at 12:58 PM.

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Rob 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 3-Nov-2018 13:13:19
#515 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5854
From: S.Wales

@number6

I noticed that AOTL also have just the ROM chips for sale which is handy for people who got the download version and don't have the facility to burn their own.

Last edited by Rob on 03-Nov-2018 at 01:13 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 3-Nov-2018 13:55:06
#516 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5158
From: UK

@number6

The Facebook page comment forwarded from Alinea suggests we "Get cracking" and buy OS 3.1.4! What's the rush? Is this a small window of opportunity before the courts issue a cease and desist on the sales? Crazy

The ECS game 'Worthy' (apt name ) will be on my Christmas list and will work fine with OS3.9. I'll wait until the smoke clears before supporting this ridiculous legal farce that OS 3.1.4 has become!

Also, did the developers think they weren't being used as tools to stir up this animosity and bad blood? They are very naive if they thought they were doing us all a favour IMHO!

This quote springs to mind directed at Thomas Richter et al.;

Dr Ian Malcolm quote from Jurassic Park:

Quote:
I’ll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you’re using here: it didn’t require any discipline to attain it. You read what others had done and you took the next step. You didn’t earn the knowledge for yourselves, so you don’t take any responsibility for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could and before you even knew what you had you patented it and packaged it and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now you’re selling it, you want to sell it.


... moral just because OS3.1 could be cleaned up doesn't mean it was a good idea in regards to what this litigation could do to future AmigaOS development and the bad blood it has fostered in the community.

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Snorg 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 3-Nov-2018 16:03:54
#517 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Feb-2018
Posts: 117
From: Unknown

@BigD

I for one would be (pleasantly) surprised if Hyperion actually has a license to sell a 3.x version of Amiga OS. In any case, it surely would have been far better to work in conjunction with Cloanto instead of walking into yet another mess.

That said, if it crossed anyone's mind that improving the OS might rock the boat, well, have at it, I say. We may gripe, in particular, about the programmers 'being used', but that conclusion ignores the simple fact that they wanted to do the work for their own reasons - it was their choice to volunteer a lot of time and energy.

In order to accomplish the quantity and quality of work they had in front of them, they needed to focus on the code rather than engage in conjecture about any potential actions on the part of other actors. After all, given the (ongoing) situation, they can hardly be accused of making matters worse - even unintentionally. It would seem the worst outcome is not far removed from what has now been the status quo for years (and years and years).

Well, as my wife says, "there are no good guys", but I would hesitate to blame anyone for trying to improve the situation.

Last edited by Snorg on 03-Nov-2018 at 04:06 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 3-Nov-2018 18:38:42
#518 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5158
From: UK

@Snorg

A lot of coders / hardware guys give a lot of thought to who they work for i.e. MOD contractors versus private tech start ups etc. I don't think helping Hyperion sell Classic versions of AmigaOS is a grey area when it's been apparent that Cloanto own that space and Hyperion only won a license to develop ongoing versions of AmigaOS 4.x and up (initially only on PPC machines was my understanding).

Just as working as a Commodore salesman would have been thankless in the 90s so is working for Hyperion for next to nothing so that they can 'screw over' Cloanto and Amiga Inc. (whatever we think of Amiga Inc.).

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Snorg 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 4-Nov-2018 2:47:37
#519 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Feb-2018
Posts: 117
From: Unknown

@BigD

To be clear, I'm not defending Hyperion (or for that matter certain other business entities). I do however, barring any damning evidence, reject your premise that the programmers are guilty of any sort of impropriety. My understanding is that Olaf has been the defacto 'caretaker' of the Amiga OS 3.1 source code since, if memory serves, the Amiga Technologies days. As such, his work is not happening 'out of the blue.'

In light of some comments, in particular those of whoever is maintaining the amiga.com website, I speak simply in defense of those who are actually producing something of substance, something the community has largely embraced.

Tangentially, choosing for whom one works in I.T. is often problematic - witness Google and Amazon, etc. ... I won't even begin. One can hardly compare (even indirectly) a pair of talented developers who are eager to see progress in the Amiga realm with that cabal.

In any case, I do appreciate your perspective - one should not be complacent, neither concerning illegality nor immorality. Do have an open mind, though, until we find out more, please.

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kamelito 
Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!!
Posted on 4-Nov-2018 18:14:47
#520 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 715
From: Unknown

I wonder if Olsen or Thor or any others developers & testers, translators etc who worked hard and for free on this update for many years will have done so if they weren't sure that Hyperion own the rights to release it.

Last edited by kamelit0 on 04-Nov-2018 at 06:19 PM.

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