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vulture 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 7-Apr-2017 19:56:49
#101 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Sep-2006
Posts: 220
From: Greece

@kilaueabart

Dunno if it has been mentioned before in the thread, but have you set your VNC server on rpi to accept VNC passwords or UNIX (security section)? It needs to be set to VNC I believe.

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kilaueabart 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 8-Apr-2017 1:25:33
#102 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2004
Posts: 640
From: Honolulu

@Signal

I'm pretty sure I'm not disconnected from the internet. I've been coming to AW from both machines, just depending on which one has the monitor at the moment. Wouldn't being able to ping the other machine from each be strong evidence that I am on the internet anyway? And the fact that I get that response only with a correct ip address is suggestive.

I may try Kronos' suggestion this session. If the router is the problem it won't be easy to solve. But see also my response to Vulture's post.

Last edited by kilaueabart on 08-Apr-2017 at 01:55 AM.
Last edited by kilaueabart on 08-Apr-2017 at 01:54 AM.
Last edited by kilaueabart on 08-Apr-2017 at 01:26 AM.

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kilaueabart 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 8-Apr-2017 1:30:50
#103 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2004
Posts: 640
From: Honolulu

@vulture

I made sure to set Authentication to VNC password from the beginning. But that reminds me that I keep getting this unsettling message when I click on the VNC icon:

Quote:
The 'VNC Server - sudo password required' program was started with the privileges of the root user without the need to ask for a password, due to your system's authentication mechanism setup.

It is possible that you are being allowed to run specific programs as user root without the need for a password, or that the password is cached.

This is not a problem report; it's simply a notification to make sure you are aware of this.

Does everyone get that? Does it mean anything interesting?

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kilaueabart 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 8-Apr-2017 1:53:20
#104 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2004
Posts: 640
From: Honolulu

@Kronos
I have the house wiring connected to a port on the DSL modem/router. The Linksys router's input is connected to the house wiring, and each of the two computers is plugged into one of that router's ports.

I could probably very temporarily plug the RPi in to one of the connections you suggest and still have it attached to the monitor, but I would expect it to come on just as it does now. I don't see what that experiment could tell me unless I could figure out a way to do it with the SAM as well, at the same time.

I think I could probably manage that, but if all it would tell me is that I should replace the Linksys with another switch, I think it would be far, far less trouble just to try a new switch experiment to start with. No good?

I certainly appreciate your taking the time to make the suggestion. I really would like to use the RPi through the Amiga.

Bart

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Kronos 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 8-Apr-2017 9:45:33
#105 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2120
From: Unknown

@kilaueabart

If both routers are really working as routers trouble is allmost impossible to avoid.

Even more if both run DHCP servers.

If you have a switch at hand replace the Linksys with it.


/me is playing with his Switch

Last edited by Kronos on 08-Apr-2017 at 09:47 AM.

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- blame Canada

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Signal 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 8-Apr-2017 13:38:21
#106 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 612
From: USA

@kilaueabart
The 'VNC Server - sudo password....' message is only telling you that user pi is able to use VNC. No problem.

The ping mechanism only checks to see if the network chips are there and working. They really have nothing to do with the operating system or programs like VNC.

Now that you have both computers on one router you need to recheck the TwinVNC icon information. You posted that the RPi is 192.168.1.100 and Amiga is 192.168.1.101

So your Amiga TwinVNC RPi3VNC icon information should be.

WINDOW
TOOLBAR
HOST=192.168.1.100
PORT=5900
SPASS= 0c0cba05f1da37a3 *Yours will be different. Be sure to enter it EXACTLY as the RPi VNCpassword you setup.
DEPTH=16
SCALE
SMOOTH
LEFT=0
TOP=0
WIDTH=1251 *Yours may be different
HEIGHT=633 *Yours may be different
FONTNAME=topaz.font
FONTSIZE=9 *Yours may be different

If there are other settings they should have (setting) parenthesis around them.



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kilaueabart 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 9-Apr-2017 2:04:27
#107 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2004
Posts: 640
From: Honolulu

@Kronos
I'm not sure what "really working as routers" means. The documentation for the modem from my ISP says I could connect three other things such as printers through it but I have never used more than one port. Is it still working as a router?

As I recall I use the Linksys router because when I got the new DSL modem and switched from dial-up, I tried to skip the router but couldn't figure out how to get on line without it. I'm not sure about that. It was many years ago. I suppose I will have to try again.

Googling "(network) switches" brings up expensive things with rows of at least five ports, that look like something I used to use even longer ago, but I don't seem to have it any more. I was hoping I could use something more like a two outlet switch splitter, but apparently it wouldn't let two computers communicate.

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kilaueabart 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 9-Apr-2017 2:22:32
#108 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2004
Posts: 640
From: Honolulu

@Signal

Quote:

Signal wrote:
@kilaueabart
...
Now that you have both computers on one router you need to recheck the TwinVNC icon information.
Well, not "now," but perhaps in the not-too-distant future. I might possibly be able to re-arrange furniture and cords enough to test that out, but since I wouldn't be able to leave things that way, it makes more sense to wait and get some sort of switch that I could use permanently. I imagine I should be able to find one locally if I knew for sure what my minimum need is.

Quote:
You posted that the RPi is 192.168.1.100 and Amiga is 192.168.1.101

So your Amiga TwinVNC RPi3VNC icon information should be.

WINDOW
TOOLBAR
HOST=192.168.1.100
PORT=5900
SPASS= 0c0cba05f1da37a3 *Yours will be different. Be sure to enter it EXACTLY as the RPi VNCpassword you setup.
DEPTH=16
SCALE
SMOOTH
LEFT=0
TOP=0
WIDTH=1251 *Yours may be different
HEIGHT=633 *Yours may be different
FONTNAME=topaz.font
FONTSIZE=9 *Yours may be different

...

I went ahead and looked into that anyway. I had to add the SPASS line and I continue to ignore the (PASS=password) in parentheses. So far I haven't added DEPTH, LEFT, TOP, WIDTH, HEIGHT. I think those are probably unnecessary at the current state of affairs. I wouldn't know what numbers to use for "yours may be different" items anyway.

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Kronos 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 9-Apr-2017 8:06:37
#109 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2120
From: Unknown

@kilaueabart

Typing "switch" into the amazon search field brings results starting at 9.99, those are the ones you might need.

Far from being a network expert, but a switch is a passive device that broadcasts every request it get to all ports. A router on the other hand assigns IPs and then checks wether a request has to go to a connected device or out into the internet.

Having 2 devices trying that at the same time can lead to trouble. It is possible that the modem is configured as a passthrough, but I doubt it.

Another test you might try:
Disconnect all but the rPi an Sam from the Linksys and try if VNC works this way.

_________________
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- blame Canada

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Signal 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 9-Apr-2017 18:44:55
#110 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 612
From: USA

@Thread
After too much screwing around with stuff that either does not work or works poorly I have found the programs that do the job of file transfer for both the Amiga X1000 and the RPi3.

On the RPi Filezilla is excellent as a FTP client. It just works. Some of the others I have tried, and spent hours trying to configure, would only move files one way or the other but not both.

FTPD server, port by Alexandre Balaban, again just works.

So now I can move files where I want them with just a few clicks.



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kilaueabart 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 10-Apr-2017 2:54:47
#111 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2004
Posts: 640
From: Honolulu

@Kronos

Here is one I had looked at yesterday:
TP-Link 5-Port Fast Ethernet Desktop Switch (TL-SF1005D)
The price is different: $9.95 Free Shipping for Prime Members
That's a bit cheaper than the one you looked at, but it's a "best seller" and gets 4 stars.

If I want it by Tuesday it'll cost quite a bit more, but maybe anything sold locally would be higher and who knows how much shopping around to find one...

OK, I just ordered it. With shipping and tax, $24.02 (22.69).

Meanwhile I tried the suggested test. The only things connected were the two computer outputs, the input, and the power line. I guessed you must mean disconnect the internet input and see what happens if the only thing the computers could possibly see was each other. TwinVNC said it couldn't find a host.

I did one more thing. I disconnected the SAM from the router and connected it to the modem line. At first it seemed like my worry about not being able to connect was going to come true, but somehow I stumbled on the way to do it, and this is happening router-free. For the rpi3 I have the choice, until Tuesday, of switching the internet cable from the SAM, or going back on wi-fi. No big deal, now.

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Signal 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 10-Apr-2017 17:52:21
#112 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 612
From: USA

@kilaueabart

My netgear router is probably the same as your linksys. Both the Amiga and the Pi are connected thru ports 3 and 4. If I disconnect the cable from the ISPs modem I can still connect the Amiga to the Pi, but neither to the Internet of course.

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Signal 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 10-Apr-2017 18:57:20
#113 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 612
From: USA

@

A diversion. :)

If you look in the RPi /boot/overlays directory and open the README file you may find something of interest.

One of the overlays will set the onboard serial port (uart0) to the required MIDI frequency.

This of course means that with the addition of a MIDI sound chip it could be used not only to play MIDI tunes but also connect a MIDI keyboard.

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kilaueabart 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 2:32:27
#114 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2004
Posts: 640
From: Honolulu

@Signal
Okay, this worries me a bit. If your computers could connect through your router but mine couldn't maybe that means there is something more seriously wrong here. I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

Meanwhile I have removed the LinkSys (still a bunch of wires to untangle someday) and gone back temporarily to wi-fi with the rpi3.

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Raffaele 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 3:09:14
#115 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1847
From: Naples, Italy

@kilaueabart

Just an hypotesis, but is possible your router is of a type that wants still "cross" ethernet cables?

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kilaueabart 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 11-Apr-2017 22:09:13
#116 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2004
Posts: 640
From: Honolulu

@Raffaele

It's a a LinkSys EtherFast Cable/DSL Router BEFSR41. The documentation doesn't say anything about cross cables, but I'm not sure. I had never heard of them until now. But I have used a variety of cables without noticing any difference.

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kilaueabart 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 4:13:12
#117 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2004
Posts: 640
From: Honolulu

Both switches arrived in one package today. The HDMI switch lets me go from the rpi3 to the SAM and back without finding a place to put my keyboard while I upend my monitor to see where to plug the HDMI plug in. A big plus.

Trying out the internet switch got a minus, namely evidence that the LinkSys router had nothing to do with my inability to VNC the rpi3 from the Amiga. It resulted in a change of IP numbers from 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101 to 192.168.200.1 and 192.168.200.21. Both ping with no problem, but trying to TwinVNC 192.168.200.21 from the Amiga gets the same old tiresome "Error Disconnected," while VNC Server notes the failed connect attempt.

Does this mean the problem lies in the other router, my ISP's DSL modem? Do I need to take that "VNC Server appears to be behind a NAT router with IP address 141.239.151.234. You will need to configure that router to forward port 5900 to this computer before you can establish direct connections to VNC Server over the Internet" stuff seriously after all? I'm going to see if I can find out what "configure a router to forward a port" means.

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Signal 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 20:03:14
#118 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 612
From: USA

@kilaueabart

The x.x.200.x numbers look like wireless addresses.
The message - "VNC Server appears to be behind a NAT router with IP address 141.239.151.234. You will need to configure that router to forward port 5900 to this computer before you can establish direct connections to VNC Server over the Internet"

Is telling me that Amiga is not seeing the VNCserver on the Pi and is trying to get through your ISPs firewall to find the xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx number TwinVNC is sending out.

I still think it is a twinVNC config problem. Where to start?

1. Cable the new switch to either the Linksys OR your ISPs device.
--- It is the router that supplies the URL numbers, switches do not. ---

2. Cable the Amiga and the Pi to your new switch.

3. RPi3 - Make sure Raspberry Pi Configuration> Interfaces Tab> VNC: is Enabled.
--------- Make sure the Time is correct.
--------- Left click on the wi-fi icon and turn OFF Wi-Fi. (just for now.)
--------- Reboot the Pi.
--------- Right click the VNC icon and select Information Center > Diagnostics tab.
--------- Go down a way and you will see;
--------------RFB port: 5900
--------------Addresses: xxx.xxx.?.? That is the VNCserver address. Use it on TwinVNC.
--------- Someplace below that;
--------------##Info##
--------------VNC Connect x.x.x is available. Plus some other stuff.
Close the info center. Left click the VNC icon, select Change password. Enter rpivnc into the password settings.


4. Amiga - Open Ranger> Network tab> Interfaces tab. Host Address.
---------- Delete the new cat icon (rpi3vnc?) in your TwinVNC drawer.
---------- Double click the TwinVNC icon.
---------- The Address should be the one assigned to RPi.
---------- Enter the new RPi VNCpassword you assigned with 'Change password' on the pi. (rpivnc)
---------- Click Options and Save As and enter rpivnc (same as password) in the File box, click OK.
---------- Click Connect.

Anything?

Testing.

Keep the RPi WiFI OFF.
Both computers should connect to the web. If not you probably have a bad cable to the switch from one of them.
Ping should work both ways.

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kilaueabart 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 13-Apr-2017 1:10:39
#119 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2004
Posts: 640
From: Honolulu

@Signal

Quote:

Signal wrote:
@kilaueabart

The x.x.200.x numbers look like wireless addresses.
The message - "VNC Server appears to be behind a NAT router ..." [i]s telling me that Amiga is not seeing the VNCserver on the Pi and is trying to get through your ISPs firewall to find the xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx number TwinVNC is sending out.

I still think it is a twinVNC config problem. Where to start?

1. Cable the new switch to either the Linksys OR your ISPs device.
--- It is the router that supplies the URL numbers, switches do not. ---

2. Cable the Amiga and the Pi to your new switch.

3. RPi3 - Make sure Raspberry Pi Configuration> Interfaces Tab> VNC: is Enabled.
--------- Make sure the Time is correct.
--------- Left click on the wi-fi icon and turn OFF Wi-Fi. (just for now.)
--------- Reboot the Pi.
--------- Right click the VNC icon ...
I skipped "Left click" and "Reboot," having made no changes. I turned off wi-fi yesterday before adding the switch. Should I reboot after changing password? I followed the rest of the instructions.
Quote:

4. Amiga - Open Ranger> Network tab> Interfaces tab. Host Address.
Host Address is 192.168.200.21 instead of the ...200.1 that I thought it was yesterday. The 192.168.200.1 number is given for both Static and Dynamic DNS. But you don't say to do anything with the Host Address, and as far as I know, it isn't really involved in VNC. I followed each of the TwinVNC instructions.
Quote:

....
---------- Click Options and Save As and enter rpivnc (same as password) in the File box, click OK.
---------- Click Connect.

Anything?

Well, yes. "Error Disconnected."
Quote:

Both computers should connect to the web. If not you probably have a bad cable to the switch from one of them.
Ping should work both ways.
I don't see how it could be the case that one or other computer doesn't connect to the web. I've been logged on to AW on both machines while flipping from one to the other to follow your instructions. Isn't that as "both" as possible? Ping does work both ways.

I agree that the ".200." part of the IP address looks wi-fi-ish. When the rpi3 was on wi-fi, that's the kind of number it got. But I'm not on wi-fi now, and Ranger wouldn't know a wi-fi number. So it looks like my wi-fi DSL modem is assigning wi-fi-like numbers to everything.

The LinkSys gave 192.168.1.100/101. But it apparently failed to connect one port to another. I'm going to plug the LinkSys back into the ISP modem, and then the plug switch into one LinkSys port so it assigns numbers instead of the DSL modem and see what happens. I'm sure that sounds like/is a dopey idea, but nothing make sense in this project anyway...

Okay, I can report already. The numbers changed back to 192.168.1.100/101 but it's still "Disconnected." VNC Server Information > diagnostics reports 6 connection attempts. Probably about right; I didn't count. One odd thing: after two attempts SPASS in rpivnc (TwinVNC) changed from rpivnc to 5702065e11cb36c32 and d12121dfc017708. But "rpivnc" survived further connection attempts. Why does VNC Server recognize connection attempts and then reject them?

Last edited by kilaueabart on 13-Apr-2017 at 02:17 AM.

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Signal 
Re: Raspberry Pi 3
Posted on 13-Apr-2017 15:01:53
#120 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 612
From: USA

@kilaueabart

SPASS is TwinVNCs way of storing securely the rpivnc word. It converts ascii into a hex string.
When you go to connect TwinVNC re-converts the string into ascii and sends it.

When you do the Save As in setting upTwinVNC is when the conversion is made.

Try this.

Open the TwinVNC icon information and make sure all of the listed entries have (parentheses) around them and Save it.

Then double click the TwinVNC icon, enter the URL of the VNCserver (if it's not already there) and enter the 'rpivnc' password you set on the RPi and click connect.

We are just bypassing all the more permanent setup, including the secure password.

EDIT: If that works, then you can edit the icon info and delete SPASS and enter PASS=rpivnc.

Last edited by Signal on 13-Apr-2017 at 03:25 PM.

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