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Nimrod 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 6-Apr-2017 20:09:05
#61 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@BigD

Quote:
Hey, it's Easter time so grap yourself a copy of Frank Morrison's Who Moved the Stone and have a great time unpacking it all

Why should I buy another copy of a book I have already read. I have a copy of the book by Albert Ross written under the pseudonym of Frank Morison (note the single "R" in his name)
I also have a copy of the Marvel graphic novel "Avengers Civil War" which I found to be a more factual read than Ross' poorly thought out apologetic. Every one of his points about the apostles make the assumption that they actually existed when in fact there is no independent contemporary record of any of them, any more than there is any contemporary record of either "Jesus" or even of "Nazareth".
Did you know that during the second century AD two leading Christian apologists lived in Caesarea Maritima a mere seventy miles from the current location of Nazareth yet neither seemed to know its exact location until after the mother of emperor Constantine arrived on a pilgrimage shortly after her son declared Christianity to be the new state religion of the Roman empire. That is the equivalent of a mathematician or Astronomer working as a senior lecturer at Nottingham University not knowing where Grantham, home of Sir Isaac Newton is located.

Did you know that Joseph Smith, the man who invented the Mormon religion was martyred in prison, along with his brother Hyrum, and neither of them repudiated their faith. Does that make the "Book of Moron" equally as valid as the "Wholly Babble"? More importantly we have independent evidence of the existence of these men, which we do not have for Jesus, Saul of Tarsus, or any of the apostles or even the gospel writers who were definitely not the people who the gospels are attributed to.
When you have less evidence for the claims of your religion than there is for a religion invented by a known confidence trickster and proven fraud, you have less than nothing going for you.

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Nimrod 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 6-Apr-2017 20:39:16
#62 ]
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Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@BigD
Here is a little pop-quiz, just to see exactly how good your knowledge of your religion is.
1 Who was Josephs father, was it Jacob (Matthew1:16), or Heli (Luke3:23)
2 Why is there a thriving city at 33.2708° N, 35.1961° E
3 What is the text of the last of the Ten Commandments and what does it prohibit.
4 How long did Sargon1 of the Akkadian Empire spend treading water during Noahs flood?
5 What was created for Adam to be "a help meet unto him"?
6 Do rabbits chew the cud? (Lev11:6)and are bats a type of bird (Lev11:19)
7 Was little baby jesus born before Archelaus became Tetrarch of Judaea, or after Augustus had deposed Archelaus from that position?
8 How many Koalas and Kangaroos were on the Ark, as well as Wallabies and Wombats? Are marsupials classed as "clean" or "unclean" creatures, and who knew since the definitions are not given until Leviticus.

Depending on your answers we will be able to see exactly what sort of "Christian" you really are. My guess is that you will ignore them altogether proving that you are one of the dishonest sort who gets your rocks off telling others what they should believe, but can't actually defend your beliefs beyond insulting or threatening people with improbable punishments by your imaginary friend, like a little schoolboy wanting to set your daddy on the bigger boys because they will not play by your rules.

Last edited by Nimrod on 06-Apr-2017 at 08:40 PM.
Last edited by Nimrod on 06-Apr-2017 at 08:40 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 6-Apr-2017 21:04:42
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Nimrod

Ha ha you're a hoot !!!

So you think killing embryos/fetuses and experimenting on human beings is of no concern whatsoever and you'd rather try and CONVERT a Christian to your rabid religious Darwinism? Is that about right? Sounds like it from here. Having a dig at my spelling now are we? You really are clutching at straws Have a great Easter!

P.S. Who made you the lecturer! Get a clue, step off your lectern and do some reading. Read Frank Morison's book again and pay attention to the arguments this time!

Last edited by BigD on 06-Apr-2017 at 09:11 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 06-Apr-2017 at 09:06 PM.

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Nimrod 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 7-Apr-2017 10:41:25
#64 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@BigD
Correct. The treatment that will make hundreds of peoples lives better by curing a mitochondrial defect will not make my Classic Amiga 1200 work any quicker, nor will it enable my SAM440 to run Mitsubishi of Siemens PLC programming software, meaning I still need to use Windows for my everyday work. So as far as a computer forum dedicated to the enjoyment of the Amiga, and Amiga-like operating systems is concerned your religious campaign to stultify medical research is of no concern whatsoever. I will not teach industrial applications of computing technology, or even try to evangelise for my particular preferences of Amiga-like OS in your church, and I require that you keep your baseless superstitions out of my computer forum.

I have less than zero interest in educating the uneducable. Your mind is too firmly closed to anything that counters your presuppositions. There is no such thing as "religious Darwinism". merely lying theists pathetically attempting to generate a false equivalence between their bronze age superstitions and demonstrable, evidence led science.
In a religion it is deemed to be heresy to question the revealed wisdom of the prophet, regardless whether that prophet is Zoroaster, Jesus, Mohammed, Joseph Smith, or even L.Ron Hubbard. Conversely in science there is a process called "Peer review" in which people who do not accept the proposition try to prove it wrong. When a religion is tested in this manner and survives the test I will consider there to be an equivalence between religion and science, because on that day all religions bar one will have ceased to exist and there will not be the plethora of different denominations, persuasions, movements, communities, schisms, sects, orders and cults wanting to slaughter each other.
Science is based on observable facts and evidence, and if new evidence is found it either strengthens or modifies the scientific theory. This means that Darwin was not a prophet, merely a signpost or marker, left by the road to show where major progress was made. Scientists have moved on from the first attempts to classify life as made by Linnaeus, Darwin and Mendel. RNA has been witnessed self-replicating in certain types of volcanic mud. Life has been discovered thriving at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean drawing energy from volcanic vents at thousands of degrees Celsius while being crushed under water at sub-zero temperatures kept liquid by pressures of tons per square inch. These living creatures, like the first living creatures on this planet, do not use Oxygen, in fact the first mass extinction on this planet appears to have been the "Great Oxygenation Event" in which cyanobacteria excreted enough Oxygen to poison themselves, and only bacteria that were able to evolve to tolerate an Oxygen rich environment were able to survive. Had you been a real geologist you would have known about things like that, but you insist on cherrypicking bits and pieces that you can distort enough that they appear to support your preconceived ideology while ignoring anything that fails to fit.

P.S. my comment about the spelling of Albert Ross' pseudonym was to demonstrate that I hadn't just ignored your advice, but that I simply wasn't convinced by his pathetic apologetics. I know what the assertions made by the bible are, I simply do not believe them, partly because they are unbelievable due to internal inconsistencies, and partly because there is a total absence of any contemporary evidence that can corroborate the assertions. And having some long-dead old fart cite paragraphs of fiction as though it were fact failed to convince me more than forty years ago and is no more impressive today. Albert Ross read the "sources" of the resurrection myth (His bible) as factual and made no real effort to check what other historical sources were available in 1st century Judaea, and what they had to say on the matter. If he had he would have found that Philo of Alexandria, who was living in Jerusalem during the time Pilate was Praefect of Judaea. Philo was a prolific writer who developed the religious idea of the "Logos" as well as keeping detailed diaries. And yet he makes no mention of any earthquake causing damage to the Temple of Herod. He also makes no mention of any eclipse, or other reason for a three hour period of darkness in the middle of the day. And he certainly makes no mention of a Zombie invasion of the city. In fact a zombie apocalypse would have caused such levels of panic that the Roman legions would have been called out to restore order, but again *crickets* we hear nothing to support the bible stories. Because that is all the bible is, stories Stories that some of us have outgrown.
There is as much evidence to support the idea that reindeer are capable of hypersonic flight and help Santa to deliver toys and goodies to all the little kiddies as there is any of the crap in the bible.

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Nimrod 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 7-Apr-2017 10:56:23
#65 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@BigD
Quote:
Read Frank Morison's book again and pay attention to the arguments this time!

Read your own "Wholly Babble". Then answer my set of eight simple questions.
1 Who was Josephs father, was it Jacob (Matthew1:16), or Heli (Luke3:23)
2 Why is there a thriving city at 33.2708° N, 35.1961° E
3 What is the text of the last of the Ten Commandments and what does it prohibit.
4 How long did Sargon1 of the Akkadian Empire spend treading water during Noahs flood?
5 What was created for Adam to be "a help meet unto him"?
6 Do rabbits chew the cud? (Lev11:6)and are bats a type of bird (Lev11:19)
7 Was little baby jesus born before Archelaus became Tetrarch of Judaea, or after Augustus had deposed Archelaus from that position?
8 How many Koalas and Kangaroos were on the Ark, as well as Wallabies and Wombats? Are marsupials classed as "clean" or "unclean" creatures, and who knew since the definitions are not given until Leviticus.

Since you want to try to show that the science behind Darwins theory of evolution is faulty, I have the right to show the errors and inconsistencies in your own position, and there are many of them.
Belief is entirely irrelevant, only that which can be shown to be true by the evidence has any meaning. The claims and assertions in the bible are not only "not manifestly true" but can be shown to be "manifestly not true"

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BigD 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 7-Apr-2017 13:30:50
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Nimrod

God bless mate. Same goes for you regarding your severe closed mindedness. Please add Alien Resurrection (film), 1984 and Brave New World to you list of entertainment pastimes over Easter. Knowing your twisted logic in all cases you'd probably view the vision of the future as just 'progress'. You're beyond debate on this issue but the blood of these babies is on all of us not just the scientists and politicians. The fact we sit by ideally and just shrug our shoulders and call it progress is SICK and reminiscent of the last days of Rome. Your cold demands that I basically shut up are reminiscent of the 'Thought Crime' idea in 1984. You need to wake up and accept that you don't know everything and don't have a monopoly on understanding relating to the life of Jesus, genetics and ethical practise. You believe in Evolution well great for you! All I'll say is it doesn't seem to bring you much peace being the oracle of that spurious irrefutable fact

I honestly wish you a Happy Easter and will be praying that you'd take theses issues seriously rather than an excuse to just vent. That was not my aim I only wanted to raise an important issue that just gets swept under the carpet due to dumb journalism on Trump.

P.S. If I want an Easter quiz on Bible verses I'll ask someone that actual loves and respects the Bible not someone that wilfully tries to undermine its teachings for no other motivation than spite and malice.

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Thorham 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 7-Apr-2017 18:43:03
#67 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Mar-2014
Posts: 183
From: Unknown

Can someone please delete this thread? All this arguing about religion

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Nimrod 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 8-Apr-2017 11:41:48
#68 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@BigD
Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian:
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.0001% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.9999% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

P.S. I can prove that prayer doesn't work in just one word.

Viagra

If prayer worked Pfizer would not make over one and a half billion dollars per year from the sale of little blue pills.
Praying fails, science succeeds.

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Nimrod 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 8-Apr-2017 11:47:48
#69 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@BigD

Quote:
If I want an Easter quiz on Bible verses I'll ask someone that actual loves and respects the Bible not someone that wilfully tries to undermine its teachings for no other motivation than spite and malice.

In other words, you cannot provide honest answers to my questions. In reality, reading the bible with your eyes open and your mind alert for lies and deceptions is the best way to become an Atheist. As Samuel Clemens (aka Mark Twain) once said "A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows."

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Rob 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 8-Apr-2017 18:37:23
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@Nimrod

If prayer worked he wouldn't be raging about three parent babies.

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BigD 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 10-Apr-2017 15:04:04
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Thorham

Quote:

Thorham wrote:
Can someone please delete this thread? All this arguing about religion


This thread in no way set out to promote an argument about religion. The fact is that some here think it is the natural way of 'progress' to wilfully kill embryos, fetuses and no doubt in the future babies (as happened in the last days of Rome), just so that we can 'test' out our hard won knowledge about genetics! To me that is reprehensible and yet Nimrod thinks that only Christians stand against this dubious use of knowledge.

That is the crux of the thread. I think it's best for everyone if Nimrod attends church on Easter Friday and Easter Sunday if he'd like any more of his questions answered rather than continue to talk about his interest in random cults, sects and sun gods on this thread!

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Nimrod 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 8:25:40
#72 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@BigD
Wrong again. I do not think that only Christian fundamentalists oppose all scientific progress. Your Islamic counterparts in Daesh also want to drag us back to The Dark Ages so that the only help offered to children dying of preventable and curable diseases is to caterwaul to your imaginary friend.

As for your offer to attend a religious service, I will do so as soon as a religion can be identified by external observable evidence as being the "One True Faith™
What evidence do you have to set your imaginary friend up as any different than Anoia, Benzeiten, Cronus, Dionysus, Eros, Freya, Geb, Hera, Isis, Jupiter, Kephri Loki, Marduk, Nemesis, Osiris, Poseidon, Quetzalcoatl, Ra, Saturn, Tengri, Uller, Vesta, Wadjet, Xanthe, Yakshini, Zeus, or indeed the deities of any other "random cults, sects and sun gods".
There are over 1100 different religions, and your preferred religion, Christianity, is subdivided into over 42,000 different denominations, persuasions, movements, communities, schisms, sects, orders and cults. Many of them involved in violent disputes with other "Christians". This very disunity among followers is the best possible indication that there is not a single grain of truth in the entire stinking cesspit of religious ideology.

As for your assertion about attending church to open my eyes about Christianity, that is exactly what happened half a century ago when I realised that the bible is full of errors, omissions, contradictions and deliberate lies. It was the lessons from a Christmas service in my local Cathedral that set me on the short road to Atheism.

How to become an atheist in 3 easy steps:
1. Pick any god besides your own.
2. Without referring back to your own or any other religion, give reasons why you don't believe in it.
3. Now apply the same reasons to your god.

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BigD 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 9:43:12
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Nimrod

Quote:
oppose all scientific progress


Are you for real? We are talking about justifying the MURDER of human beings by masqerading it as 'progress'. I'm a scientist myself and like technology if its used correctly and to the benefit of ALL mankind (including the unborn). So you're severely mistaken that Christians stand against progress! We just oppose evil badly thought out morally reprehensible technology such as IVF and GM-babies.

Happy Easter and as always read the actual text and don't rely on your biased world view

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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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Nimrod 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 16:02:06
#74 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@BigD
No, we are not talking about the murder of human beings, and your attempt to muddy the waters by a pathetic emotional appeal to ignorance is further proof of your total lack of honesty and integrity. Far from "Murdering" the fertilised ovum, the scientists modified it by removing the faulty mitochondrial DNA and replaced it with healthy mitochondria, enabling it to eventually be able to develop into a human being who is not subject to a debilitating medical condition for the entirety of its foreshortened existence.
According to the bible a foetus is not deemed to be "alive" until it draws its first breath, so the modern secular status of the foetus is better regarded than it is by your religion. The "bitter waters" test for marital infidelity involves a drug induced miscarriage, to get rid of the foetus that the woman's owner/husband suspects may not be his and then waiting to see whether the primitive abortion left her sterile or not. And if she remains fertile the owner/husband is not in any way penalised for the killing of the foetus, nor is he even required to apologise to the woman since she is only a female.

You are not, and never will be a scientist because unlike you a scientist gathers the information and then decides what conclusions can be drawn from the evidence while you sift through the evidence, rejecting any that cannot be distorted to fit your own presuppositions and prejudices.
Do you remember this image?


It is not only Christians who stand as an obstruction to progress. Your Islamic counterparts in Daesh are no better than you and oppose progress for exactly the same reason as you. The cult of הוה in its myriad variants continues to consider knowledge to be "evil" and continues to oppose progress as it has always done.

Quote:
as always read the actual text and don't rely on your biased world view.
My worldview was certainly biased when I first read the texts of the bible, but it was biased towards the belief that the bible and its attendant message was TRUE and the bible an accurate record of historical events. Then I learned to actually READ what was written and put in front of me and consequently became an Atheist.
ιακωβ δε εγεννησεν τον ιωσηφ τον ανδρα μαριας εξ ης εγεννηθη ιησους ο λεγομενος χριστος
The Koine Greek text above translates to
And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
(1) Do you agree that Since "Jacob begat Joseph", Josephs father is called Jacob

και αυτος ην ο ιησους ωσει ετων τριακοντα αρχομενος ων ως ενομιζετο υιος ιωσηφ του ηλι
The Koine Greek text above translates to
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
(2) Do you agree that Since it states "Joseph, which was the son of Heli,", Josephs father is called Heli

So is (1) the same as (2) or did Jacob beget Joseph, son of Heli in a miracle of gay sexual fulfilment?

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BigD 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 16:21:01
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Nimrod

In the case of Pronuclear Transfer the third parent's fertilised egg is sacrificed for its healthy mitochondria; that is highly dubious. In addition, the amount of 'spare' fertilised eggs that are then kept in cold storage in the event of a failed IVF procedure is ridiculous and sickening. The embryos are kept for a cerain time and then incinerated or if the Life Centre is given the chance; experimented on further in the name of medical science!

You've used that image before and changing (i.e. correcting) the annotation it demonstrates quite well your blind acceptance of the Theory of Evolution despite never seeing the creation of a species with your own eyes and in no way following the scientific method i.e. OBSERVING REPEATABLE TESTABLE SCIENCE!

Your logic seems to go along these line, "God is dead so clutch at some sort of theory which although flawed will allow me to ignore him until my death bed!" You do science a great disservice with your dismissive attitude towards the scientific method, human life and any reasonable debate against people with world views other than your own!

Your grasp of the Bible seems very much relegated to second fiddle compared to your obvious infactuation with cults, sects and probably Temple of Doom style Thuggee worship Seriously, who gives a fig about man made religions? Jesus came back from the dead, FACT!!!! It doesn't really matter what Ghandi, Mohammed or the Easter Bunny did compared to defeating death does it? Any other group of people trying to work their way to an unseen, unpersonable and unknown man created idol is not compareable to Yahweh and Jesus in any way. Quite frankly you are acting like a GCSE Religious Education student thinking that they are compareable!! It's embarassing. Were you the one that invented 'multi-faith' services? You claim to know about the Bible and yet you compare it flippantly to the Quran and Hadith?!!! Your attitude to both scientific study and Bible study is insanity on the same level as KILLING human embryos and fetuses to forward science

Last edited by BigD on 12-Apr-2017 at 04:28 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 12-Apr-2017 at 04:27 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 12-Apr-2017 at 04:24 PM.

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Nimrod 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 20:50:34
#76 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@BigD
I know what the process involves. I also know that the single ovum is not a human being either under the rules established for what constitutes a living human in the bible (has drawn breath) or under the far tighter rules established for in vitro fertilization and gene therapy research.

I know I have used the image before. The not very subtle clue is in the text immediately above the image. The words "Do you remember this image?" do sort of give the game away. The message of the image remains valid. Science follows the available evidence while religion ignores such evidence as it cannot distort.

Your "god" is not dead. Only real living things can become dead, fictional entities like those in my little alphabetical list, your imaginary friend יהוה and Harry Potter were never alive to begin with.

There is infinitely more evidence that corroborates the scientific theory of evolution by means of natural selection than there is for the existence of either "Jesus" or even Nazareth, and no evidence has ever been found to disprove the theory of evolution , while there is evidence that disproves every single claim made on behalf of the Christian religion. The "Nylon eating bacteria" Flavobacterium sp. KI72 and Pseudomonas aeruginosa are proof of evolution, one being a laboratory confirmation of the other, observed and tested. Ring species such as Larus Gulls, Ensatina Salamanders, Greenish Warblers etc were predicted by Darwin as the branching points of speciation. The end to end splice of Simian chromosomes 2p and 2q to form Human chromosome 2 is also proof of species change. The fact that you are either too scientifically illiterate, or too dishonest as a consequence of your biased viewpoint does not alter the validity of the evidence, and your use of the logical fallacy "Argument from personal incredulity is irrelevant.

A comment from another earlier post of mine on 12th April is a perfect fit here Quote:
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
The only one dismissive of the scientific method is you, and to compound your ignorance you persist in projecting your failings on to those who have followed the evidence to its logical conclusion. When you follow evidence there is always only one conclusion which is why every school chemistry lab in the world has the periodic table of elements that is an extended version of the one first proposed by Dmitri Mendeleev. Schools outside of Russia didn't revert to Bechers Phlogiston chemistry during the cold war as a rejection of communist influences and neither did schools in Greece stick to the idea that everything was a mixture of Earth, Air, Fire, and Water as a matter of national pride because Empedocles proposed it. When evidence exists to support a hypothesis ideas converge towards the best evidenced hypothesis to the detriment of less well evidenced ideas. When no evidence exists no such focus occurs, which is why there are more than 1,100 different and disparate religions, and your preferred religion, Christianity, is subdivided into over 42,000 different denominations, persuasions, movements, communities, schisms, sects, orders and cults. Many of them involved in violent disputes with other "Christians". This very disunity among followers is the best possible indication that there is not a single grain of truth in the entire stinking cesspit of religious ideology. And yes, I have said that before as well, you just chose to ignore it because it is true.

Quote:
Seriously, who gives a fig about man made religions?
Certainly not me. Which is why I would be happier if you were to stop trying to proselytise your vile cult of death in a COMPUTER enthusiasts forum.

Quote:
Jesus came back from the dead, FACT!!!!
Did he really? Do you have any EVIDENCE
Putting five exclamation marks at the end of a comment does not turn a baseless assertion into a fact.
Writing the word "fact" in uppercase at the end of a comment does not turn a baseless assertion into a fact.
Only EVIDENCE determines whether something is a fact, and you have yet to bring any EVIDENCE forwards. The claims made in the four gospels contradict each other, and are uncorroborated by any contemporary source.
Positive claims require positive evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. C. Sagan
That which may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. C. Hitchens
Philo of Alexandria was a prolific diarist and writer who lived in Jerusalem during the period when Pilate was Praefect. He once wrote whole paragraphs about the facial expressions of audience members at a musical recital. Just imagine what he would have been able to write about a zombie invasion of Jerusalem had one actually happened. There is no historical evidence for the existence of the character "Jesus" and the biblical accounts of his early life are mutually contradictory. Matthew has him as a "young child" fleeing persecution by Herod, Luke however has him being born while Judaea is ruled by the man who took over from Archelaus, the person who inherited limited power from Herod on Herods death.To put it more simply, he supposedly emigrated to Egypt at least ten years before being born.
Also the oldest parts of the current Nazareth are built above the necropolis of Japhia, a Jewish town that was destroyed by the Roman armies under Trajan in AD67. The man who paid from his own pocket to upgrade the defences of Japhia was the historian Josephus who described the defences and the battles in detail, yet totally fails to mention a town of indeterminate size and specifically its synagogue built in a location no synagogue would occupy.
So we have a non existent person who supposedly lived in a non existent town.

The following religious cult figures have something in common. Dionysus, Persephone, Zalmoxis, Osiris, Odin, Ganesha, Lemminkainen, Tammuz, Krishna, Queatzalcoatl, Attis.
What they have in common is resurrection.
So the claim that only your chosen deity managed to get a return ticket is clearly false. And since most of these gods and demi-gods predate Christianity it means that the Christians are the plagiarists in the event of anybody being accused of copying other religions claims concerning miracles.

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Nimrod 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 12-Apr-2017 20:57:37
#77 ]
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@BigD
Quote:
You claim to know about the Bible and yet you compare it flippantly to the Quran and Hadith?!!!

Both are entirely fictional and simply reflect the ignorance and prejudices prevalent at the time of their writing, and both have been used to justify hatred, torture, oppression, slavery, murder, and even genocide.

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BigD 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 13-Apr-2017 8:44:37
#78 ]
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@Nimrod

Your statements just demonstrate how ignorant you are of both the Bible, the scientific method and the art of debate in general. You have no interest in reading the Bible with an open mind, you blatantly haven't read Who Moved the Stone by Frank Morison as you keep asking for proof of Jesus' birth, life, death and resurrection when that book is stacked full of it. And now your comparing elephant gods with Jesus!

You really are deluded if you think I'll be taking your politically correct BBC-type view of man-made religions being compareable to a faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus was at the creation of the world as written in John 1; ("In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God" - refers to Jesus) so stop all this talk of, "this ragged old book predates Christianity" rubbish. You get that Yahweh is the same God that the Jews worship except they missed the coming of Jesus? Therefore, believers in Yahweh existed right back to the Garden of Eden! So what's your point?

I really pray you have an enlightening Easter and you have another look at the facts. Some impersonal Cathedral service upset you in the past, fair enough. In my experience more than half of Cathedral staff don't even talk to vistitors and are too busy getting ready for Evensong or whatever dress wearing pomp their involved in. It is always better to go to a smaller church that is more in keeping with the Early Church model (a lot of them had to meet in houses) where the focus is on the people not flower rotas, buildings or dresses!

P.S. To say an embryo is not human based on what the Bible says is an absolute lie. To pretty much suggest that experimentation on and the incineration of human life is par for the course is sick and I have nothing more to say to you on the subject if you are taking that line. That's more than a life for a life, that's more like kill as many unborn humans as you want as long as our knowledge of genetic manipulation improves

As stated before ad nauseam (not that you can grasp it despite the evidence) many many of the world's great scientists ARE Christians! Wow Eye opening isn't it? They have a zeal to investigate and explore God's creation and uncover the rules, structure and patterns of the universe. What they don't do is assume all life was created from chaos to save themselves from having to grapple with the fact the most reasoned explanation for our existance is a creator God who has given us the Bible to explain why! Why not take that at face value rather than all your preconceived non-observable and untestable psuedo-science hokum? At least the Bible account is plausible. The inconceivable and impossible route to the hypothesised evolution of a human eyeball or the Bombardier Beatle is farcical. Next you'll be telling me the energy needed for the Big Bang came from another dimension where the laws of Physics are different

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Last edited by BigD on 13-Apr-2017 at 08:50 AM.
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Nimrod 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 13-Apr-2017 21:06:14
#79 ]
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@BigD
The book by Albert Ross has exactly ZERO evidence to corroborate the baseless claims made in the bible. What it does is uce circular logic assuming that the bible is true as proof that the bible is true. That isn't how science works
Why don't you tell me exactly what "evidence" it is that you think I have missed? And then I will prove that you are wrong and that Albert Ross was a self-deluding old fool.

Believers in יהוה did not exist as far back as the garden of Eden because the story of Eden, the rib woman and the talking snake were all plagiarised from earlier stories. In fact Genesis contains not one but two mutually contradictory myths. Genesis1 draws heavily on one of the Egyptian creation myths with the eath rising from the water, then the sun and moon created after a few days, followed by the wild animals, then the domesticated animals, and finally the two humans created both together. Genesis2 is copied from the Akkadian creation myth of a garden being created, then the man. The creator deity then uses a golem spell to animate clay figurines of animals in an attempt to create a suitable companion for the man, only making the woman after presumably catching the man slipping his pork sword into the mutton. This seems to be a perfect example of item 5 on my list of failings of fundamentalist Christians who strain at a gnat but swallow a camel.

The Cathedral service did not upset me. Why do Christians always assume that people reject their superstitions as a result of being angry or upset. The Cathedral service included readings from the bible that I realised were mutually contradictory. The first reading was from Lukes nativity myth which is set in the days when Publius Sulpicius Quirinius (Cyrenius) was governor of Syria and has a heavily pregnant Mary travel from Galilee to Bethlehem for a non-existent census. Then after a bit of what you accurately describe as "dress wearing pomp" and a couple of carols the next bible reading (from Matthew) has Jesus as a young child in the reign of Herod. The problem is that Herod died in 4BC and he was succeeded in Judaea and Samaria by Archelaus, and in Galilee by Antipas. After ten years of inept rule in Judaea, Archelaus was deposed by Augustus at the request of the Jewish population of Judaea, much to the disgust of the Samaritans. Judaea and Samaria then came under direct Roman rule as a part of the province of Syria under its newly appointed governor. Galilee however remained independent of Rome until some time after Pontius Pilate had completed his ten year stint as Praefect in Jerusalem in AD 36, meaning that Joseph didn't have any need to go to Bethlehem until after the man who supposedly crucified Jesus had left office. It is amazing just how many holes there are in the bible stories when you know a little bit of actual, real documented history.

Quote:
P.S. To say an embryo is not human based on what the Bible says is an absolute lie
Wrong. Read Numbers 5:11-31 for the details. When you use the scientific method while reading the bible (or any other "holy book") the foundations of the religion quickly crumble. That is what happened when creationist Charles Darwin set out to find scientific evidence supporting creationism. The evidence convinced him that the bible was wrong, leading him to become an Atheist. As for your anti-intellectual crap about medical research, what would your answer be for a mother whose son was dying of mitochondrial disease? Tell her to caterwaul to your imaginary friend, I suppose. You are no better than the Christ-stains who sat back and watched Savita Halappanavar slowly die of blood poisoning as a result of a septic miscarriage at 17 weeks' gestation after being denied an abortion even though the embryo could never have been saved.

SOME of the great scientists ARE indeed Christians, but the vast majority these days are not. 93% of the American Academy are Atheist/Agnostic and that figure rises to 97% in the Royal Society. More to the point, NO leading scientist is a creationist, believing the Genesis and Exodus accounts to be anything other than Aetiological sagas and plagiarised myths and legends. Indeed the biologist Ken Miller whose evidence was used to completely humiliate the pseudo intellectual liar Micheal Behe whose fraudulent "Intelligent Design" book was the reason for the Kitzmiller trial, is a practising Catholic, albeit one who follows Galileo's understanding of the bible. No biologist assumes anything, they follow the evidence. It is idiot religions that assume that an invisible skyfairy took a handful of dirt and spoke a magic incantation to make it come alive.

Quote:
Next you'll be telling me the energy needed for the Big Bang came from another dimension where the laws of Physics are different
Wrong again! What I will tell you is that I do not know anything about the big bang, or where the energy came from. What I will not do is make up some story about the celestial lotus flower, or an invisible man called EL, or even the "sons of EL (Elohim)" whose followers (IsraEL) became the "chosen people"
Do you notice how the first god of the Canaanites was not YHWH, but EL and that YHWH had originally been just one of several gods in a pantheon not much different from any other pantheon worshipped by more powerful and civilised neighbours.
What you fail to understand is that just because scientists do not have all of the answers today does not mean that you can shoehorn your imaginary friend in as the default answer, any more than you can insert Odin, Osiris, Ahura-Mazda or Zeus. That logical fallacy is called "god of the gaps" and your imaginary friend gets squeezed out of more gaps every day.

P.S. did you know that Astronomers now have evidence of extraterrestrial life. Where does Genesis mention life on other celestial bodies, planets, moons etc?

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BigD 
Re: Three Parent Babies given the all clear in the UK
Posted on 13-Apr-2017 21:31:39
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From: UK

@Nimrod

Quote:
And then I will prove that you are wrong and that Albert Ross was a self-deluding old fool.


Ha Ha!!! You have such a high opinion of yourself!!!

Let's hope you learn some humility at some point in your life for your sake. As I've said before this thread is about the destruction of human life which you've made quite clear you don't have a problem with. Argument closed. Isn't Britain great in your view? You must be so proud that your version of human endeavor and progress in the guise of perverse twisted genetic manipulation is righting the wrongs of the world in your humble opinion Sticking your head in the sand must be so soothing.

Again, Easter Bible quizes are for those that respect the Bible and great books like Who Moved the Stone and you certainly don't. There is one verse of the Bible that springs to mind regarding your attitude and motivation;

Matthew 7:6
Quote:
Don't waste what is holy on people who are unholy. Don't throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you.


On that basis, read the Bible for yourself, answer your own questions and stop spouting on a thread that doesn't even mention the weird cults and sects you love to study. Your in my prayers but this doesn't resemble a healthy debate and your baseless attack on the Bible is wrong and inappropraite considering it's Easter. If you really cared about the answers to your frankly spurious questions there are plenty of Easter services and Ministers who would speak to you afterwards. If you just want to stay at home and toast the death of hundreds of human embryos at the hands of Great British scientists at the 'LIFE' Centre then suit yourself

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