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michalsc
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 19-Apr-2021 13:03:29
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AROS Core Developer |
Joined: 14-Jun-2005 Posts: 393
From: Germany | | |
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| @matthey
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ARMv7/AArch32 also has optional endian support but it is more consistent where implemented. It supports endian mode changes on the fly and it has instructions for converting endianess. This was overall good endian support. ARMv8/AArch64 deprecates easy endian mode switching on the fly and practically forces little endian mode as the default endianess. Instructions which convert endianess are encouraged instead of operating in big endian mode or on the fly endian mode changes which some cores may still support. Big endian mode support may become less and less common and may be removed at some point. This big endian support is less impressive and more on par with PPC.
Correct me if wrong michalsc. |
You are correct. Besides, on *any* ARM the endianess is, according to official documentation, implementation defined which means that an ARM cpu can be bi-endian, LE only or BE only. Some of them can be switched to BE or LE through a pin, some can have it hardwired. The instructions are *always* LE no matter what mode for data is supported by the CPU. Additionaly, memory mapped peripherals covered by ARM are always LE.
On AArch64, if the CPU is bi-endian, the mode can be set separately for each privilege level. Moreover, endianess can be set on per-process basis since the SCTLR_EL1 register can be rewritten on task switch. Still, one can only hope that the CPU of interest supports both BE and LE. This is true for all CPUs used in RaspberryPi so far. This is true in case of RK3399 CPU (rockpro64, pinebook pro). This is false in case of Apple M1 - this one is LE only. |
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number6
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 19-Apr-2021 13:07:07
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11617
From: In the village | | |
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| @Birbo
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The problem is, that the existing agreements are interpreted differently. |
Well clearly the court is equally confused at this point.
January: "The Parties resumed settlement discussions to resolve all of the matters between them in October 2020. On Thursday of last week, the Parties reached the terms of settlement on the main agreement. The only tasks that need to be completed are for the Parties to attend to seven ancillary documents, including an assignment and novation agreement, mutual releases, stipulations of dismissal, and documents related to a proceeding in Belgium. In addition, Hyperion requires additional time to confer on one point with counsel in Delaware regarding a security interest. The additional time requested will enable the Parties to focus exclusively on finalizing documents and following through with the settlement."
Note the word "only" and "ancillary" (subordinate-secondary in nature). The court indicated there indeed was agreement and stressed this by use of those words.
Then *poof*. Hyperion files for further delay followed by a new string of documents referred to as "motions", "response to motions", "replies to responses to motions" etc.
Given the above, what assurance is there that any further progress Judge Martinez may "think" is occurring will not suffer the same fate?
#6_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
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michalsc
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 19-Apr-2021 13:13:59
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AROS Core Developer |
Joined: 14-Jun-2005 Posts: 393
From: Germany | | |
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| @ppcamiga1
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What makes ARM useless for Amiga Os. Because the whole point of use 32 bit big endian cpu is to use old code without changes. |
ARM in big-endian would be able to run m68k or ppc software through emulation layer. The software could share the data since the data would be big endian for all three architectures. It does not really matter that arm instructions are stored in little endian byte order. |
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ppcamiga1
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 19-Apr-2021 14:18:43
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Cult Member |
Joined: 23-Aug-2015 Posts: 878
From: Unknown | | |
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| @michalsc
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It does not really matter that arm instructions are stored in little endian byte order. |
In real life 32 bit constans in compiled C code, are stored with arm instructions in little endian format. After setend bi, they have wrong values. which makes arm useless for amiga os. |
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ppcamiga1
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 19-Apr-2021 14:21:17
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Joined: 23-Aug-2015 Posts: 878
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Birbo
situation is clear. Hyperion has os. Battilana may use unmodified Amiga Os 3.1 only for games only. Battilana should use what he has and stop this court crap.
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michalsc
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 19-Apr-2021 18:02:45
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AROS Core Developer |
Joined: 14-Jun-2005 Posts: 393
From: Germany | | |
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| @ppcamiga1
Quote:
In real life 32 bit constans in compiled C code, are stored with arm instructions in little endian format. |
In real Amiga life there is no ARM code used yet and so there is no issue with any constants. Regarding ARM code on ARM machines - no, even constants stored between instructions are big endian if the CPU is running in big endian and the code was compiled for big endian ARM. It is instruction decoder which fetches opcodes in LE, so really only arm code is affected. The rest, including FPU unit, operates in BE if the CPU is told to do so. Well, even MMU page tables are big endian in that case.
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After setend bi, they have wrong values.
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Sure, if one is mixing endianness in that way, then very bad things can happen. Therefore such easy endian switching was made obsolete on ARM.
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which makes arm useless for amiga os. |
Not if ARM is running in big endian mode all the time.Last edited by michalsc on 19-Apr-2021 at 06:03 PM.
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ppcamiga1
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 19-Apr-2021 19:30:13
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Cult Member |
Joined: 23-Aug-2015 Posts: 878
From: Unknown | | |
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| @michalsc
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no, even constants stored between instructions are big endian if the CPU is running in big endian and the code was compiled for big endian ARM. |
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Not if ARM is running in big endian mode all the time. |
One problem ARM that use big endian stored instructions not exist.
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michalsc
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 19-Apr-2021 19:52:11
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AROS Core Developer |
Joined: 14-Jun-2005 Posts: 393
From: Germany | | |
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| @ppcamiga1
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One problem ARM that use big endian stored instructions not exist. |
The old big endian mode for ARM was using instructions stored in big endian mode too, but it had some serious endianness issues on unaligned addresses. This mode is not used anymore. Indeed, current ARM processors store instructions in little endian byte order only, but what does it change? Nothing, absolutely nothing. The AArm32 or AArch64 code can run in big endian mode without any problems. All loads and stores are big endian, from 16bit halfword up to 64bit numbers. Vector unit operates in big endian mode, even FPU operates in big endian mode. From programmer and user point of view there is absolutely no difference between this and other big endian machines. The CPU instructions? No-one cares - these are just 32bit numbers, format does matter for instruction fetch and decode only. |
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matthey
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 19-Apr-2021 21:41:26
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Elite Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2007 Posts: 2321
From: Kansas | | |
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| Hyperion-Director Quote:
I expect Hyperion would consider the "issues" and stay at the bargaining table. I expect Hyperion would consider the danger and negotiate appropriately.
Is the pinch you are in reaping what you sowed? Did you put the pinch on Amiga Inc. and coerce them into signing the 2009 Settlement Agreement? Who was the aggressor then applying the pinch to a financially weakened business partner? Did you feel proud of that maneuver until you were outmaneuvered by Michele buying out Amiga Inc? Now you can't deliver source code because you took advantage of the developers and they won't deal with you anymore? Do you think Hyperion's best business partner A-Eon who is on better terms with former Hyperion developers could help or is that bridge burnt too? Can we see how you negotiate from your 2017 e-mail exchange with Bill McEwen where you are abusive and coercive?
2017-02-26_amiga-hyperion_email_ben-hermans-bill-mcewen.pdf https://docs.google.com/file/d/1kSIJR_3xeJbDfnBS2ZmcsgMZV82OXuTq/edit
Seriously, do you expect anybody in his or her right mind to have sympathy for you as you play the victim? How about figuring out what you can do and start doing the right things for Hyperion and the Amiga?
Last edited by matthey on 19-Apr-2021 at 11:08 PM. Last edited by matthey on 19-Apr-2021 at 11:06 PM.
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number6
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 19-Apr-2021 22:14:19
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11617
From: In the village | | |
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| @matthey
just seemed to fit
#6 _________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
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jorit2
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 19-Apr-2021 23:02:04
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Regular Member |
Joined: 22-Apr-2011 Posts: 243
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Hyperion-Director
Quote:
Oh Ben, do you mind if I forward this mail ... and keep a printed copy ? I was talking with a few business friends the other day and they asked me what kind of person you were ...
Thx ! EvertLast edited by jorit2 on 19-Apr-2021 at 11:18 PM.
_________________ -- Posting for charity -- Investing €10 in a charity related to education or civil rights for every message I post -- |
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bison
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 20-Apr-2021 1:50:30
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Elite Member |
Joined: 18-Dec-2007 Posts: 2112
From: N-Space | | |
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| @ppcamiga1
Quote:
situation is clear. Hyperion has os. Battilana may use unmodified Amiga Os 3.1 only for games only. Battilana should use what he has and stop this court crap. |
It's more complicated than that. Amiga Corporation has trademarks, and trademarks need to be defended._________________ "Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner |
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MEGA_RJ_MICAL
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 20-Apr-2021 4:45:41
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Super Member |
Joined: 13-Dec-2019 Posts: 1200
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE | | |
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 20-Apr-2021 5:38:42
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Elite Member |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12918
From: Norway | | |
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ppcamiga1
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 20-Apr-2021 7:44:38
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Cult Member |
Joined: 23-Aug-2015 Posts: 878
From: Unknown | | |
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| @michalsc
Quote:
The old big endian mode for ARM was using instructions stored in big endian mode too, but it had some serious endianness issues on unaligned addresses. This mode is not used anymore. |
As I wrote no new ARM with this.
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Indeed, current ARM processors store instructions in little endian byte order only, but what does it change? |
It changes everything. After move to ARM old C code have to be changed. Not just recompiled as on ppc.
Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 20-Apr-2021 at 07:45 AM.
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 20-Apr-2021 7:53:12
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Elite Member |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12918
From: Norway | | |
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michalsc
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 20-Apr-2021 8:07:23
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AROS Core Developer |
Joined: 14-Jun-2005 Posts: 393
From: Germany | | |
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| @ppcamiga1
Quote:
After move to ARM old C code have to be changed. |
No. Old binaries can be just executed through emulation layer as it happens with m68k software on OS4. If you want to recompile, no change is necessary. The ARM running in big endian mode behaves just like big endian CPU.
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Not just recompiled as on ppc. |
Of course you are wrong.
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Hyperion-Director
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 20-Apr-2021 11:42:39
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New Member |
Joined: 27-Mar-2021 Posts: 8
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Hyperion-Director
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 20-Apr-2021 12:02:34
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New Member |
Joined: 27-Mar-2021 Posts: 8
From: Unknown | | |
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| I realize this may take a while but I suggest we just wait for the Court to rule.
Last edited by Hyperion-Director on 20-Apr-2021 at 12:11 PM. Last edited by Hyperion-Director on 20-Apr-2021 at 12:05 PM.
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jorit2
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Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark Posted on 20-Apr-2021 12:10:08
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Regular Member |
Joined: 22-Apr-2011 Posts: 243
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Hyperion-Director
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Hyperion-Director wrote: Seems the usual suicidal people are back. |
Maybe you should get yourself a little up to speed ... things have changed.
But it is somewhat comforting to see you're still the lowlife you used to be. But at the very least you don't express your regret that I never went through with it. I guess I can call that progress ?
Evert_________________ -- Posting for charity -- Investing €10 in a charity related to education or civil rights for every message I post -- |
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