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Birbo 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Apr-2021 13:50:08
#1221 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Apr-2007
Posts: 559
From: Zurich, Switzerland

@ppcamiga1

Mr Battilana is only trying to bring about a clear, transparent situation.

The problem is, that the existing agreements are interpreted differently. This should now be clarified by a court so that all parties know within which framework they are allowed to act.

The agreements drawn up so far have been anything but clear.

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michalsc 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Apr-2021 14:03:29
#1222 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 283
From: Germany

@matthey

Quote:
ARMv7/AArch32 also has optional endian support but it is more consistent where implemented. It supports endian mode changes on the fly and it has instructions for converting endianess. This was overall good endian support. ARMv8/AArch64 deprecates easy endian mode switching on the fly and practically forces little endian mode as the default endianess. Instructions which convert endianess are encouraged instead of operating in big endian mode or on the fly endian mode changes which some cores may still support. Big endian mode support may become less and less common and may be removed at some point. This big endian support is less impressive and more on par with PPC.

Correct me if wrong michalsc.


You are correct. Besides, on *any* ARM the endianess is, according to official documentation, implementation defined which means that an ARM cpu can be bi-endian, LE only or BE only. Some of them can be switched to BE or LE through a pin, some can have it hardwired. The instructions are *always* LE no matter what mode for data is supported by the CPU. Additionaly, memory mapped peripherals covered by ARM are always LE.

On AArch64, if the CPU is bi-endian, the mode can be set separately for each privilege level. Moreover, endianess can be set on per-process basis since the SCTLR_EL1 register can be rewritten on task switch. Still, one can only hope that the CPU of interest supports both BE and LE. This is true for all CPUs used in RaspberryPi so far. This is true in case of RK3399 CPU (rockpro64, pinebook pro). This is false in case of Apple M1 - this one is LE only.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Apr-2021 14:07:07
#1223 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11165
From: In the village

@Birbo

Quote:
The problem is, that the existing agreements are interpreted differently.

Well clearly the court is equally confused at this point.

January:
"The Parties resumed settlement discussions to resolve all of the matters between them in October 2020. On Thursday of last week, the Parties reached the terms of settlement on the main agreement. The only tasks that need to be completed are for the Parties to attend to seven ancillary documents, including an assignment and novation agreement, mutual releases, stipulations of dismissal, and documents related to a proceeding in Belgium. In addition, Hyperion requires additional time to confer on one point with counsel in Delaware regarding a security interest. The additional time requested will enable the Parties to focus exclusively on finalizing documents and following through with the settlement."

Note the word "only" and "ancillary" (subordinate-secondary in nature). The court indicated there indeed was agreement and stressed this by use of those words.

Then *poof*. Hyperion files for further delay followed by a new string of documents referred to as "motions", "response to motions", "replies to responses to motions" etc.

Given the above, what assurance is there that any further progress Judge Martinez may "think" is occurring will not suffer the same fate?

#6

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michalsc 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Apr-2021 14:13:59
#1224 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 283
From: Germany

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
What makes ARM useless for Amiga Os.
Because the whole point of use 32 bit big endian cpu is to use old code without changes.


ARM in big-endian would be able to run m68k or ppc software through emulation layer. The software could share the data since the data would be big endian for all three architectures. It does not really matter that arm instructions are stored in little endian byte order.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Apr-2021 15:18:43
#1225 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 234
From: Unknown

@michalsc

Quote:
It does not really matter that arm instructions are stored in little endian byte order.


In real life 32 bit constans in compiled C code,
are stored with arm instructions in little endian format.
After setend bi, they have wrong values.
which makes arm useless for amiga os.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Apr-2021 15:21:17
#1226 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 234
From: Unknown

@Birbo

situation is clear.
Hyperion has os.
Battilana may use unmodified Amiga Os 3.1 only for games only.
Battilana should use what he has and stop this court crap.

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michalsc 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Apr-2021 19:02:45
#1227 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 283
From: Germany

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
In real life 32 bit constans in compiled C code,
are stored with arm instructions in little endian format.


In real Amiga life there is no ARM code used yet and so there is no issue with any constants. Regarding ARM code on ARM machines - no, even constants stored between instructions are big endian if the CPU is running in big endian and the code was compiled for big endian ARM. It is instruction decoder which fetches opcodes in LE, so really only arm code is affected. The rest, including FPU unit, operates in BE if the CPU is told to do so. Well, even MMU page tables are big endian in that case.

Quote:

After setend bi, they have wrong values.


Sure, if one is mixing endianness in that way, then very bad things can happen. Therefore such easy endian switching was made obsolete on ARM.

Quote:

which makes arm useless for amiga os.


Not if ARM is running in big endian mode all the time.

Last edited by michalsc on 19-Apr-2021 at 07:03 PM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Apr-2021 20:30:13
#1228 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 234
From: Unknown

@michalsc

Quote:
no, even constants stored between instructions are big endian if the CPU is running in big endian and the code was compiled for big endian ARM.


Quote:
Not if ARM is running in big endian mode all the time.


One problem ARM that use big endian stored instructions not exist.

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michalsc 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Apr-2021 20:52:11
#1229 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 283
From: Germany

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
One problem ARM that use big endian stored instructions not exist.


The old big endian mode for ARM was using instructions stored in big endian mode too, but it had some serious endianness issues on unaligned addresses. This mode is not used anymore. Indeed, current ARM processors store instructions in little endian byte order only, but what does it change? Nothing, absolutely nothing. The AArm32 or AArch64 code can run in big endian mode without any problems. All loads and stores are big endian, from 16bit halfword up to 64bit numbers. Vector unit operates in big endian mode, even FPU operates in big endian mode. From programmer and user point of view there is absolutely no difference between this and other big endian machines. The CPU instructions? No-one cares - these are just 32bit numbers, format does matter for instruction fetch and decode only.

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Apr-2021 22:41:26
#1230 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1063
From: Kansas

Hyperion-Director Quote:

Another quote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1xAUfdK9FE

truly believe none of these "issues" are considered prior to Hyperion taking a certain action?


I expect Hyperion would consider the "issues" and stay at the bargaining table. I expect Hyperion would consider the danger and negotiate appropriately.

Is the pinch you are in reaping what you sowed? Did you put the pinch on Amiga Inc. and coerce them into signing the 2009 Settlement Agreement? Who was the aggressor then applying the pinch to a financially weakened business partner? Did you feel proud of that maneuver until you were outmaneuvered by Michele buying out Amiga Inc? Now you can't deliver source code because you took advantage of the developers and they won't deal with you anymore? Do you think Hyperion's best business partner A-Eon who is on better terms with former Hyperion developers could help or is that bridge burnt too? Can we see how you negotiate from your 2017 e-mail exchange with Bill McEwen where you are abusive and coercive?

2017-02-26_amiga-hyperion_email_ben-hermans-bill-mcewen.pdf
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1kSIJR_3xeJbDfnBS2ZmcsgMZV82OXuTq/edit

Seriously, do you expect anybody in his or her right mind to have sympathy for you as you play the victim? How about figuring out what you can do and start doing the right things for Hyperion and the Amiga?

Last edited by matthey on 20-Apr-2021 at 12:08 AM.
Last edited by matthey on 20-Apr-2021 at 12:06 AM.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 19-Apr-2021 23:14:19
#1231 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11165
From: In the village

@matthey

just seemed to fit

#6

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jorit2 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 20-Apr-2021 0:02:04
#1232 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 243
From: Unknown

@Hyperion-Director

Quote:

matthey wrote:

2017-02-26_amiga-hyperion_email_ben-hermans-bill-mcewen.pdf
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1kSIJR_3xeJbDfnBS2ZmcsgMZV82OXuTq/edit



Oh Ben, do you mind if I forward this mail ... and keep a printed copy ?

I was talking with a few business friends the other day and they asked me what kind of person you were ...

Thx !
Evert

Last edited by jorit2 on 20-Apr-2021 at 12:18 AM.

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bison 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 20-Apr-2021 2:50:30
#1233 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1841
From: N-Space

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
situation is clear. Hyperion has os. Battilana may use unmodified Amiga Os 3.1 only for games only. Battilana should use what he has and stop this court crap.

It's more complicated than that. Amiga Corporation has trademarks, and trademarks need to be defended.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 20-Apr-2021 5:45:41
#1234 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 493
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:

situation is clear.
H̶y̶p̶e̶r̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶o̶s̶


Hyperion stole os.
Me Tarzan.
You Jane.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 20-Apr-2021 6:38:42
#1235 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11746
From: Norway

@jorit2


"Amiga, Inc. Sells the Amiga Operating System to KMOS inc, to focus on AmigaDE and the Mobile Market."

https://forum.amiga.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=9e8meiaum3jdrs2m6bbfg4j8s5&topic=45321.0

“KMOS had acquired Amiga Inc” in 2004, then renamed it self to Amiga Inc.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/03/a-history-of-the-amiga-part-12-red-vs-blue/3/

2009-10-17: hyperion-amiga-inc-reach-settlement

https://www.osnews.com/story/22360/hyperion-amiga-inc-reach-settlement-all-legal-issues-resolved/

2010 Amiga Inc (KMOS) tries to sell trademarks.

https://www.osnews.com/story/23983/amiga-inc-selling-amiga-trademark/

Bill Mc. should have been out of the picture in 2017, strange to dragged him in to this.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Apr-2021 at 08:28 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Apr-2021 at 07:49 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Apr-2021 at 07:14 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Apr-2021 at 06:56 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Apr-2021 at 06:40 AM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 20-Apr-2021 8:44:38
#1236 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 234
From: Unknown

@michalsc

Quote:
The old big endian mode for ARM was using instructions stored in big endian mode too, but it had some serious endianness issues on unaligned addresses. This mode is not used anymore.


As I wrote no new ARM with this.

Quote:
Indeed, current ARM processors store instructions in little endian byte order only, but what does it change?


It changes everything.
After move to ARM old C code have to be changed.
Not just recompiled as on ppc.

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 20-Apr-2021 at 08:45 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 20-Apr-2021 8:53:12
#1237 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11746
From: Norway

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2003-02-00202-EN.html

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michalsc 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 20-Apr-2021 9:07:23
#1238 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 283
From: Germany

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
After move to ARM old C code have to be changed.


No. Old binaries can be just executed through emulation layer as it happens with m68k software on OS4. If you want to recompile, no change is necessary. The ARM running in big endian mode behaves just like big endian CPU.

Quote:
Not just recompiled as on ppc.


Of course you are wrong.

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Hyperion-Director 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 20-Apr-2021 12:42:39
#1239 ]
New Member
Joined: 27-Mar-2021
Posts: 8
From: Unknown

Actions speak louder than words.

Last edited by Hyperion-Director on 20-Apr-2021 at 01:10 PM.
Last edited by Hyperion-Director on 20-Apr-2021 at 12:44 PM.

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Hyperion-Director 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 20-Apr-2021 13:02:34
#1240 ]
New Member
Joined: 27-Mar-2021
Posts: 8
From: Unknown

I realize this may take a while but I suggest we just wait for the Court to rule.

Last edited by Hyperion-Director on 20-Apr-2021 at 01:11 PM.
Last edited by Hyperion-Director on 20-Apr-2021 at 01:05 PM.

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