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jorit2 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 19:17:33
#1501 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 243
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@jorit2

Ok let’s elaborate on that, when Ben and Trever D, partnered up create company AEON, ben did take money from AEON to cover legal costs, only after it had happened Trever D found out about it, these parts of public records. These legal costs as direct consequence of legal disputes between Hyperion and Cloanto.

Ongoing legal disputes between Hyperion and Cloanto, has been disaster for Hyperion ability pay developers, and can have most likely delayed product from shipping? Fact or fiction?

A1222 had to be redesign becouse has not shipped on time, parts can no longer be obtained, fact or fiction?

Because legal disputes, Trever D, had to buy ExecSG, and pay the developer for there work, work Hyperion should have played for, is this not direct consequence of the legal disputes?

AEON had to remove "AmigaONE" from all its web pages, due to ongoing legal disputes.

Costumers’ uncertainty has not costed AEON any money?


I'm not elaborating on any of that.
I was just commenting on what you posted, about the relationship between Mike and Trevor as if it were a fact.

Other than that: You're asking me to elaborate on things that went on after I left, or was not a part of.
Other than what I heard mostly through the grapevine, hearsay in other words, I am not privy to what went on between Ben and Trevor regarding A-EON. I chose not to be a part of AEON or the X1000 project.
Same applies to anything related to A1222.
Given my current position I may or may not have a little insight in the dispute between Hyperion and Cloanto ... but then again ... given my position I'm not in a position to talk about it.

Evert

Besides, you don't even believe I am really who I claim to be

Last edited by jorit2 on 04-Jun-2021 at 08:28 PM.
Last edited by jorit2 on 04-Jun-2021 at 07:21 PM.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 19:28:11
#1502 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11164
From: In the village

@NutsAboutAmiga

Let me take a look based on your paragraphs...
Quote:
Ok let’s elaborate on that, when Ben and Trever D, partnered up create company AEON, ben did take money from AEON to cover legal costs, only after it had happened Trever D found out about it, these parts of public records. These legal costs as direct consequence of legal disputes between Hyperion and Cloanto.


Mini timeline in case it helps...

Trevor Dickinson, Anthony Moorley, and Ben Hermans formed A-Eon (Belgium)
The event referred to as the forgery/theft/bank fraud (depending on which article you use as a source) was discovered by Anthony.
Anthony couldn't leave fast enough, after which the A-Eon (as you know it now) was formed without Ben Hermans obviously.

This event in turn means the X1000 project suffers, later to be introduced at Bletchley (retro show). Trevor later writes openly about having to get the project back on track.
2010 show report

As we are talking about the year 2010 here...I don't understand your connection to a lawsuit that began 7 years later. Sorry.

Paragraph 2. I don't know which exact product you refer to, so I'll skip that one.

Paragraph 3:
Quote:
A1222 had to be redesigned becouse has not shipped on time, parts can no longer be obtained, fact or fiction?


The only factual public info on this would be the obvious redesign due to the parts obsolescence. Only Trevor and Matthew could speak to other issues, but since the work shifted to Acube and was not planned that way originally...there might be an issue there.

Most of the rest would have to be answered by Trevor.

But re:Amigaone
You'll note a clickable link for X5000 on amiga.org wiki, but not for X1000.
Source
As X1000 began under the first incarnation of A-Eon, it maintains its connection to partnership with Hyperion in its own wiki.
Source

#6

Last edited by number6 on 04-Jun-2021 at 07:55 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 04-Jun-2021 at 07:43 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 04-Jun-2021 at 07:35 PM.

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Rose 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 19:54:33
#1503 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 885
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Ok let’s elaborate on that, when Ben and Trever D, partnered up create company AEON, ben did take money from AEON to cover legal costs, only after it had happened Trever D found out about it, these parts of public records. These legal costs as direct consequence of legal disputes between Hyperion and Cloanto.


TIL: Ben Hermans has a time machine.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 20:01:40
#1504 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11745
From: Norway

@Rose

Some factual errors, but anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdZ5zIAFaCs

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cgutjahr 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 20:26:57
#1505 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 940
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Ok let’s elaborate on that, when Ben and Trever D, partnered up create company AEON, ben did take money from AEON to cover legal costs, only after it had happened Trever D found out about it, these parts of public records. These legal costs as direct consequence of legal disputes between Hyperion and Cloanto.

No. the legal costs that nearly bankrupted Hyperion and made Ben allegedly (according to Trevor) steal money from A-EON Belgium are from the 2007-2009 lawsuit against Amiga Inc. A litigation Hyperion (i.e. Ben) provoked, hoping he could get his hands on OS4 that way.

Quote:

Ongoing legal disputes between Hyperion and Cloanto, has been disaster for Hyperion ability pay developers, and can have most likely delayed product from shipping? Fact or fiction?

Hyperion hasn't really been paying developers for more than a decade. The Cloanto-Hyperion litigation started in December 2017.

Quote:

Trever D, had to buy ExecSG

Another consequence of the Hyperion-Amiga litigation: the Friedens were no longer getting paid, after a few years of that they sold to Trevor. Nothing to do with Mike Battilana.

Quote:

A-EON / Trever D had to remove "AmigaONE" from all its web pages, due to ongoing legal disputes.

No, they had to do that because of their decade-long, ongoing bitch fight with Hyperion. Again, this has nothing to do with Cloanto.

Quote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdZ5zIAFaCs

That speech was given 11 months before Cloanto sued Hyperion, I doubt Trevor says anything in that video regarding Cloanto, but I'm not going to watch a 30 minute video to find out.

(Edit: typos)

Last edited by cgutjahr on 04-Jun-2021 at 10:00 PM.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 20:44:54
#1506 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11164
From: In the village

@cgutjahr

I was also wondering about the point of that link.

I actually watched it again.

All I can think of is Trevor's mention that Mike introduced him to Ben. Perhaps that's why Mike is blamed?

#6

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 21:57:56
#1507 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11745
From: Norway

@number6

I think he should at least know better.
like it or not he is part of it.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 04-Jun-2021 at 10:10 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 04-Jun-2021 at 09:58 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 23:01:40
#1508 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5832
From: UK

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
I think he should at least know better.
like it or not he is part of it.


We’re all part of it that’s the trouble! We inflate the value of all this dead IP stuff. It stops a mini A500 ‘console’ being released to the masses that would buy one and probably introduce our machine to a new generation! Instead we get false dawns like the Tabor, Amiga Forever and AmigaOS 3.2 that just keep the whole thing creaking on just enough with the dwindling old faithful who actually fuel the IP battles! If we withheld our money until they’d sorted this out then they’d have to settle!

Last edited by BigD on 04-Jun-2021 at 11:03 PM.

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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 23:11:06
#1509 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1733
From: Trondheim, Norway

@BigD

The “mini console” A500 was released to the masses the very same year that Hyperion and Amiga made the settlement, in 2009. You could buy them for quite a few years, preinstalled with OS license from Cloanto and a whdload license as well. The games have their own legal statuses and licenses, so few were included, but everything was prepared for easy installation using whdload installers.

So, how come you and everyone didn’t get one?

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jorit2 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 23:20:23
#1510 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 243
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@NutsAboutAmiga

If we withheld our money until they’d sorted this out then they’d have to settle!


By that logic you're exempt from any responsibility for this mess.

Evert

Last edited by jorit2 on 04-Jun-2021 at 11:22 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 23:26:47
#1511 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5832
From: UK

@kolla

If such a machine DID exist then we don’t have the marketing or manufacturing contacts to get it made or to build up the demand. The way the C64 was relaunched was amazing but we’re too busy infighting too touch the mainstream with such a unit even though it could be done! Most Americans didn’t get to try one so a marketing campaign is required to educate them on what they missed! It’s a tough sell if the nostalgia is not there I guess. I understand as I still fail to see what all the fuss was about the NES even now. But then I find even Super Mario Bros. 3 quite boring compared to the MegaDrive Sonic games to be honest.

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 23:31:39
#1512 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5832
From: UK

@jorit2

Thanks! Though I support AmigaKit with Classic purchases and am pumped for the Raptor Accelerator due from the Apollo Team. I did want to compliment it with AmigaOS 3.2 but this IP mess needs to collapse and to get rebuilt before we’re too old to teach the new generation and encourage them to buy fun new easily accessible and available to buy Amiga products!

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noXLar 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Jun-2021 14:36:14
#1513 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-May-2003
Posts: 711
From: Norway

@BigD

what i read (between the lines) is fanboy war. 68k support/future vs ppc support support future

68k gang are motivated to crush any ongoings the 0s4 may have until they are dead.

its all about envy.

while, i support all camps. and use them all for fun. but this 68k war, (we where here first) mongoloid is just stupid, and childish

Last edited by noXLar on 06-Jun-2021 at 02:44 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Jun-2021 15:18:43
#1514 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5832
From: UK

@noXLar

No I’m sure OS4 is good but there is no hardware available and I still sense A1222 Plus is a long way off. Hyperion are not developing OS4 anymore hence the ridiculously low asking price with no thought to reinvest into future development. The ONLY progress right now is for 68k and MorphOS in terms of browser tech. It isn’t a war if AmigaOS is on sabatical!

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Jun-2021 15:19:52
#1515 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11164
From: In the village

@noXLar

Given that 3.x has not made it perfectly clear what they intend to share with 4.x publically and yet 3.x has openly stated they are back porting from 4.x.....

We don't need a new niche within a niche within a niche. I suggest these 2 new "camps" engage in some very specific exchange of dialog and soon.

#6

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noXLar 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Jun-2021 15:48:16
#1516 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-May-2003
Posts: 711
From: Norway

@BigD

not right now maybe, but has been since ppc route was taken.

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geen_naam 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Jun-2021 16:22:08
#1517 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2003
Posts: 111
From: The Netherlands

@number6

Agreed. Equal opportunities.

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bison 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Jun-2021 16:58:19
#1518 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1841
From: N-Space

@noXLar

The ironic thing is, both ISAs are nearly dead.

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Trixie 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 6-Jun-2021 18:00:09
#1519 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2009
From: Czech Republic

@bison

Quote:
The ironic thing is, both ISAs are nearly dead.

"That is not dead which can eternal lie."

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Jun-2021 1:20:41
#1520 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1063
From: Kansas

#6 Quote:

Given that 3.x has not made it perfectly clear what they intend to share with 4.x publically and yet 3.x has openly stated they are back porting from 4.x.....


mercurioblu: Is there any convergence plan in place between the 68k and the ppc AmigaOS versions? Do you have interaction and have access to AmigaOS 4.x source code?

Ignacio Gully: There are no plans of convergence. I mean there's a pool of code which we share because we have a common ground of course but we have different paths. The OS fork is one and the 68k is one so please understand that we are none of these branches is going to try to follow the other but just pursue their own goals and ways of doing things. The difference in architecture you can not compare a machine with a PPC processor running a 100 or thousands of MHz with a 68k processor running at for example 7 MHz and the same goes with the memory, with the IO throughput of the machines so the OS has to be adapted to better suit that architecture and even more than that what else do you have an interaction set. Yes, we do have. In fact there are 2 developers that come and go and actually work on both operating systems simultaneously. One is Olaf and the other is Massimo and they usually interchange ideas that we have and the OS 4 team has. They of course are allowed to pick up from our code we are allowed to pick up from theirs. Of course we as a courtesy ask politely but we are always granted that favor from them and of course they can do exactly the same. So please understand that our goals may be similar there is a pool of code that is quite similar but we are not going exactly to the same destination.

AmigaOS 3.2 Presentation and Installation with development team member (Gulliver answer @ 38:22)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIf3EyHGwRU

#6 Quote:

We don't need a new niche within a niche within a niche. I suggest these 2 new "camps" engage in some very specific exchange of dialog and soon.


The camps overlap and there is communication. The AmigaOS 3 and AmigaOS 4 APIs are becoming more similar but will never be the same. There are some parts of AmigaOS 4 which are only licensed for the PPC like P96 and RoadShow so can't currently be backported. Of course Hyperion could lose their AmigaOS license altogether turning both OSs into a legal mess perhaps like H&P AmigaOS 3.9.

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