@number6

Quote:

Would you please change the thread title to: Amiga IP acquisition and ongoing dispute with Hyperion This thread is being read elsewhere and the current title is obsolete/inaccurate regarding current discussion/status. Thank you.

Done.

So this is bad news for Hyperion, but I guess Cloanto still got to prove copyright infringement.

I still dont fully understand why this lawsuit prevented the A1200 Maxi. For 1 it clearly did'nt prevent A500 mini. If it the fact they wanted AmigaOs on there Im sure they could of released it with AmigaOS all the way up to OS3.0. As its only 3.1 thats in dispute as I understand it.

I just find it funny and sad, as clearly this lawsuit havent really prevented other parties from advancing the Amiga, like Amikit, Amibench, A600GS, A1200NG, All the FPGA / Pistorm projects, it would of been nice if these parties could of work together to just improve the core AmigaOS 3.X experiences, but instead Aros and other befits.

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@amigang

First of all: Thank you very much for the title change as requested.

I mentioned in the RGL thread this was a decision by Plaion. I can not speak for their concerns though. They had a CEO change just prior to this. Perhaps he had a different theory about risk.

Personally I think any decision at this point is better than the purgatory we've lived in.
Sure there will be people disappointed, and the "how does this affect..." questions are going to appear.

Let's just see if this shakes something loose and perhaps initiates a dialog.

#6

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amigang Quote:

So this is bad news for Hyperion, but I guess Cloanto still got to prove copyright infringement.

Cloanto won a battle but has still not won the war. The case continues but it should be faster than starting over with Amiga Corporation to gain standing. I asked Google AI the following question.

Google AI Quote:

Google question Quote: How longer after the CLOANTO CORPORATION, ET AL V. HYPERION ENTERTAINMENT C.V.B.A. appeal before the court case can continue? AI Overview In the Cloanto Corporation, et al v. Hyperion Entertainment C.V.B.A. lawsuit, the duration before the court case can continue after an appeal depends on the specific outcome of the appeal and the nature of the remaining legal actions. Here's a breakdown of the key factors involved: o Appeal Decision: The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit recently issued a memorandum reversing-in-part the dismissal of the lawsuit, reinstating Cloanto's copyright infringement claims. However, the court upheld the dismissal of Cloanto's breach of contract claims due to lack of standing. o Remand to District Court: Since the appellate court reversed and remanded the copyright infringement claims, the case will return to the original District Court for further proceedings related to those specific claims. o Court Process: The duration of a court case after an appeal depends on various factors, such as the complexity of the case, the court's docket, and the actions of the parties involved. o District Court Proceedings: The District Court will likely establish a new schedule for proceedings regarding the reinstated copyright infringement claims. This could involve discovery, motions, potential settlement negotiations, and ultimately a trial if a resolution isn't reached earlier. o No Fixed Timeline: There is no fixed timeline for how long it will take for the case to resume and proceed after the appeal decision. In summary, after the appeal, the lawsuit will return to the District Court to address the copyright infringement claims. The specific timeline for the continuation of the case will depend on the actions of the parties and the court's management of the case, and there's no way to definitively predict how long this will take.

AI can be helpful when it doesn't lie. Unfortunately, no timeline though. It would be nice if we could get a decision by the end of the Amiga 40th anniversary year.

amigang Quote:

I still dont fully understand why this lawsuit prevented the A1200 Maxi. For 1 it clearly didn't prevent A500 mini. If it the fact they wanted AmigaOs on there Im sure they could of released it with AmigaOS all the way up to OS3.0. As its only 3.1 thats in dispute as I understand it.

Actually, I believe Hyperion disputes and has challenged ownership of versions of the AmigaOS before 3.1. They appear to have licensed AmigaOS and kickstart/ROM versions earlier than AmigaOS 3.1. The iComp dispute with Cloanto was likely because iComp licensed retro Amiga IP from Hyperion instead of Cloanto.

OEM License Agreement between Hyperion Entertainment CVBA and Individual Computers Jens Schoenfeld GMBH 25 February 2013
https://docs.google.com/file/d/1hoW_2nQzlj_wBk7FD0SMoZ__7e8T0n_A/edit Quote:

1.01 Definitions. For purposes of this Agreement, in addition to capitalized terms defined elsewhere in this agreement, the following defined terms shall have the meanings set forth below: "Classic Amiga OS" means the operating system exclusively licensed to HYPERION largely based on the operating system shipped with the Commodore Amiga line of computers sold in the 1980s and early 90s by inter alia Commodore Business Machines ("CBM") including (without limitation) Kickstart 1.3 (V34.5) and Kickstart 3.1 (V40.063);

The 2009 Amiga Inc v Hyperion VOF settlement agreement license reads completely different though.

https://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/washington/wawdce/2:2007cv00631/143245/147/1.html Quote:

"Software" means AmigaOS 3.1, which is the Operating System (including without limitation it's Software Architecture as described in the Documentation) originally developed, owned and marketed by Commodore Business Machines (CBM) for their Amiga line of computers in 1994.

There is no other mention of AmigaOS versions before AmigaOS 3.1 in 1994. Somehow this turns into the "Classic Amiga OS" ... "exclusively licensed to HYPERION" ... "including (without limitation) Kickstart 1.3 (V34.5)". Has the Hyperion challenge of ownership changed since Ben left? No. Hyperion claims RGL must license the classic AmigaOS from them. Cloanto was licensing AmigaOS versions for emulation including AmigaOS 3.1 and their ownership/license is grandfathered into the 2009 Amiga Inc v Hyperion VOF settlement agreement. Is this as obvious and blatant of a Hyperion license violation to other people as it is to me? Is it clear to everyone that Hyperion is challenging ownership of Amiga IP here by using and licensing Amiga IP they have not licensed and do not own?

amigang Quote:

I just find it funny and sad, as clearly this lawsuit havent really prevented other parties from advancing the Amiga, like Amikit, Amibench, A600GS, A1200NG, All the FPGA / Pistorm projects, it would of been nice if these parties could of work together to just improve the core AmigaOS 3.X experiences, but instead Aros and other befits.

Some parties have legally advanced the Amiga while there are other Amiga IP squatters that need to be dealt with. The 68k AmigaOS should be used more universally and benefit from more open contribution after it is freed from Hyperion.

Last edited by matthey on 15-Jun-2025 at 04:19 AM.
Last edited by matthey on 13-Jun-2025 at 07:41 PM.

#6 Quote:

Let's just see if this shakes something loose and perhaps initiates a dialog.

Not only did Timothy negotiate an agreement between Hyperion and Cloanto before Ben nixed it, but ...

https://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/index.php/news/38-corporate/308-hyperion-entertainment-cvba-obtains-key-victory-in-us-federal-court Quote:

During these many years Hyperion Entertainment was always keen to bring this litigation to a negotiated outcome and still, to this day, remains of the belief that an amicable resolution between the parties bringing all remaining litigation to a close, would be in the interest of the Amiga Community as a whole.

I hope to see an update from Hyperion about the current court results and their relentless efforts "to bring this litigation to a negotiated outcome".

@matthey

From https://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2025-06-00059-EN.html

Legal dispute: Hyperion can be held liable for copyright infringements

(cut for focus)

Only two days later, not only was this request by Hyperion's new lawyer rejected, but a unanimous judgement was also issued: the decisions of the previous instance to deny the Amiga parties the right to sue for breach of contract and not to admit the Amiga Corporation to the proceedings were upheld. However, the three judges of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals overrule their colleague on one key point: The Amiga parties can take action against Hyperion for copyright infringement - copyright law is to be valued higher here than the "non-aggression" clause from the 2009 settlement agreement, according to the court of appeals.

The "District Court" - i.e. the previous instance - must now once again deal with the allegation of copyright infringement by Hyperion.

Mike Battilana's 'Amiga Corporation' had already opened separate proceedings against Hyperion in 2019, but these are on hold until the case discussed here is resolved.

(cut for focus)


---------

From https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6363972/hyperion-entertainment-cvba-v-itec-llc/

Jun 17, 2025:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.256770/gov.uscourts.wawd.256770.171.0.pdf


In other words, the Copyright Act itself confers standing to the legal
owner of a copyright. Therefore, because it is undisputed that Cloanto is the legal
owner of the copyrights that Hyperion allegedly infringed, there is no question that
Cloanto has standing to claim copyright infringement. Cloanto “does not lose [its]
right to bring [that] claim just because [Hyperion] [may] raise a [contract-based
argument] in its defense

Last edited by Hammer on 19-Jun-2025 at 05:33 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 19-Jun-2025 at 05:30 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 19-Jun-2025 at 05:10 AM.

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@Hammer

please don't just copy/paste entire news items. These take quite a lot of time to write, I don't think asking people to follow the links #6 posted a day ago is asking too much.

@cgutjahr

Maybe if you give them the same explanation as you have to on other sites?

About how much time, effort, and fact checking goes into this for the sake of your own website?

And that to just post entire copy elsewhere almost negates all of that?

#6

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@cgutjahr

Full credit was given to https://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2025-06-00059-EN.html

Last edited by Hammer on 16-Jun-2025 at 01:33 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Jun-2025 at 01:32 AM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7950X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

Currently referred to as Hyperion's foreign counsel. Lol.
I thought "Look guys, trust us, Ben is no longer involved in Hyperion" but here we are, a legal document from days ago states he is in fact very much involved.

I am not surprised at all. I even said before something along the lines of they can re-org as much as they want. At the end of the day all the shares will revert back to Ben as payment for "legal services rendered" because Hyperion is broke and have no other means to pay him.

I said it before but can't be bothered to search for it. But here we are, Ben working for and racking up costs for his services. Nothing ever changes.

Ben is back! Thanks for keeping the seat warm mr Grooetes.

Last edited by V8 on 16-Jun-2025 at 03:10 AM.

@V8

Quote:

V8 wrote: Ben is back! Thanks for keeping the seat warm mr Grooetes.

Somewhere in his evil lair, Ben is signing:

Guess who's back, back again?
Ben is back, tell a friend.
Guess who's back, guess who's back
Guess who's back ...

Now, this looks like a job for me
So, everybody, just follow me
'Cause we need a little controversy
'Cause it feels so empty without me

(Na-na-na, na, na, na, na, na, na)
(Na-na-na, na, na, na, na)

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote: cdimauro Quote: That's the key point. And since the copyright violation is proved... bye bye 2009 Settlement: Hyperion will lose everything! It's just a question to wait for this new lawsuit to end. I do not believe the copyright violations would be proven unless and until there is a verdict of the original case which was appealed. The reverse in part of the appeal allows the original case to proceed with Cloanto having standing to claim damages for copyright infringement. If Cloanto proves copyright infringement, another case from a business with standing, likely Amiga Corporation, may be required to obtain a declaratory judgement that Hyperion violated the 2009 settlement agreement (a material breach of contract) allowing nullification. Perhaps the nullification of the 2009 settlement agreement would just be a formality at that point but court cases take time. Hyperion has nothing to worry about if they did not infringe on the Cloanto IP. Ben Hermans is a lawyer with extensive experience in IP and IT law so he knew exactly what he was doing. Hyperion can move forward with full confidence in Ben's professional legal work for Hyperion. Ben is a mighty giant experienced in lawfare and could never fall to a small man with no legal experience hurling stones with a pesky slingshot.

If Hyperion had nothing to worry, then why they've changed the copyright from the first version of its 3.1.4 ROMs?
Quote:

cdimauro Quote: ...kollla "Morna, Jens!"... Indeed! Jens would benefit from more open AmigaOS development. It may be possible to negotiate the exchange of P96 ownership into the AmigaOS for money owed to Cloanto or Amiga Corporation from Amiga IP violations. It should not be difficult to obtain the other half of P96 ownership from the remains of Hyperion.

I don't see it so much important: RTG can be borrowed by AROS, for free.

@Hammer

Quote:

Full credit was given to https://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2025-06-00059-EN.html

I didn't ask you to give credit, I asked you to remove it. Please do that, now.

@cdimauro

Quote:

I don't see it so much important: RTG can be borrowed by AROS, for free.

I don't know what their business model actually is. I asked sometime ago about doing a driver for the most used graphic card, the one being used on pistorm, raspberry 4 since it will be the one most users would have and compelled to have in the future... they didn't seem particularly compelled to do so. Surely there's something to be gained of hardware acceleration, surely it would make a good product that people would like to have, one would think

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@thread

Just to gain some perspective from "outside" this community, the folowing search should offer a few more facts:

Quote:

cloanto 9th circuit court of appeals

Quote:

A landmark case is a significant legal decision that establishes a new legal precedent or significantly changes the interpretation of existing law. These cases often have a lasting impact on the application of law, particularly concerning individual rights

If you can't read the law sites without paying them for the news, let me know.

#6

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@pixie

Quote:

pixie wrote: @cdimauro Quote: I don't see it so much important: RTG can be borrowed by AROS, for free. I don't know what their business model actually is. I asked sometime ago about doing a driver for the most used graphic card, the one being used on pistorm, raspberry 4 since it will be the one most users would have and compelled to have in the future... they didn't seem particularly compelled to do so. Surely there's something to be gained of hardware acceleration, surely it would make a good product that people would like to have, one would think

If you're referring to iComp, ThoR is not so much interested on writing drivers for Picasso96.

And I can understand him: it's a big PitA.

@number6

Quote:

If you can't read the law sites without paying them for the news, let me know.

Well, I never got a request from anyone about this, but someone else decided to post a few things in that regard.

Link in post #1695

#6

Last edited by number6 on 18-Jun-2025 at 11:12 PM.

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@matthey

Your post #1703 is AI's "guess" at what happens next and when.

The actual current status:

item #171

For those who don't like to read, the Appeal memorandum, which goes into effect -immediately-, has been received by the district court in Washington State.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 19-Jun-2025 at 12:52 AM.

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@cgutjahr

I trimed for focus.

Last edited by Hammer on 19-Jun-2025 at 05:12 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 19-Jun-2025 at 04:54 AM.

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Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7950X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@cgutjahr

Quote:

cgutjahr wrote: @Hammer Quote: Full credit was given to https://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2025-06-00059-EN.html I didn't ask you to give credit, I asked you to remove it. Please do that, now.

If people (still) don't get this:

Copyright © 1998-2025 by amiga-news.de - all rights reserved.

I suggest you to don't file a lawsuit against he/him, because you could lose it as the judge would recognise the subject's inability to understand the elementary notions of law.

It would be better to report the post and/or write to Steve requesting its removal.

cdimauro Quote:

Quote: I didn't ask you to give credit, I asked you to remove it. Please do that, now. If people (still) don't get this: Copyright © 1998-2025 by amiga-news.de - all rights reserved.

Hammer quoted the whole article at first which was highly questionable as far as fair use. The article is short and it is sometimes permissible to quote a whole article though.

https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/index.html

After Hammer's edit, the moderators may be more concerned about censorship of fair use material than about a copyright violation.