@PR

Quote:

Come on people this is AmigaWorld. (Not a mos-aros fight area) The more You do that, the less interested.

not for a long time. any hyperion-related thread attracts the same five trolls like honey attracts ants. you'll find them peddling their same, tired insults and 'arguments' every time. i don't even read their posts -- if i see their user ID on the left side, i already know what they'll say. it's so repetitive as to have becoming boring.

-- eliyahu

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"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@TRIPOS

Quote:

No it doesn't. You may want to read the explanation "Black lines = Timeline" again. The explanation even has a graphical symbol attached to the left of it, to really illustrate how the black lines that shows the timeline looks, just to avoid any confusion...

Yes, timeline linked down between the OS releases and then forked off. It isn't clear, at best it's misleading nonsense and at worst it's libellous.

It certainly looks to me that AROS, MorphOS and OS4 are direct descendants of Commodore's source code, forked at different times, and a different variation of Workbench plus OS4 have inherited some cleaned up version of Commodore's code.

AROS and MorphOS shouldn't even be on that page, since they don't use any of Commodore's code according to the owners. By putting them there you are suggesting they have - legally or otherwise - used AmigaOS 3.1 as their base.

I'd argue that whether Commodore's OS3.1 code base has been cleaned up or not is irrelevant too, since functionally it's identical.

Again, I strongly suggest you modify your graphic so it represents actual verifiable facts instead of some alternate reality.

I will not be commenting further.

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@Chris_Y

Quote:

AROS and MorphOS shouldn't even be on that page, since they don't use any of Commodore's code according to the owners

aros uses os3.x as reference, same as os4 or morphos. aros doesnt contain the actual 3.x code though, except probably what originates from aros and become part of amiga system later. everybody can check for themselves, aros sources are open. which is the case of os4 and morphos, the general public cant tell, as these are closed.

Quote:

I'd argue that whether Commodore's OS3.1 code base has been cleaned up or not is irrelevant too, since functionally it's identical.

exactly. also here it is the same thing across all the ng proposals. even if none of them contains the genuine code, the functionality has been preserved at least to certain extent. os4 is probably least compatible of all three in this respect, but it is compatible as well to certain extent.

@wawa

Quote:

os4 is probably least compatible of all three in this respect, but it is compatible as well to certain extent.

This depends on application. Compatibility layers in OS4 (interpretive, JIT and RunInUAE emulation) are simply above other solutions. There are also things like planar screens emulation which helps with some apps. I was even able to run OS1.x era software in WinUAE/OS4.

@pavlor

Quote:

I was even able to run OS1.x era software in WinUAE/OS4.

sure, same as i with aros68k.

@eliyahu

Dismissing people with strong opinions as "trolls" is so 90s ... but well, what isn't, around here?

@eliyahu

I'd like only some constructive chat from the hobbie. Got tired too. Taken them as humour.

There is another site but too serious.

We are adults and can invest a bit from work.

Sometimes got a week off the net if possible. Sometimes from work 10 times/day.


Two little Amigagirls are enough to complain over here but they Love DeluxePaint or some games and are immediately productive. Just Magic.

Made in America? Just got the Vet running from the new Carage when snowing.
(Should be summer)

One new Amiga in the back. (Finland is the little USA in Europe)

More worried about the Ice hockey in a few hours in Paris. My brother is there, must peek the audience if seen in TV.

Best Regs: PR

@eliyahu

Quote:

any hyperion-related thread attracts the same five trolls like honey attracts ants.

There's trolling and there's trolling.

How many times the same subject has come up and kicked around only goes to show that what happened to the Amiga as a hobby, and as something to care for, went wrong, and this cannot and should not stand. This is as far as I can agree with the sentiment.

What gets me every time is trying to retell the story in a form which makes it appear as if there had been a consistent trend to make the outcome worse by neglect or even malice. It certainly looks better to picture the whole sad story as a tragedy with actors playing with the fate of the Amiga than to view it as the more tragic result of owners and users following their own respective interests and the Amiga getting lost in the jumble somewhere along the way.

None of the work that went into the AROS project, the AmigaOS 3.1 updates, MorphOS, the AmigaOS 3.5 and 3.9 updates, AmigaOS4, etc. was easy, could have been done better at the time, or should be seen as frivolous or fraudulent.

You can always make the point that the work should have been done better at the time. You have to work within the constraints you are given, though, and things don't necessarily fall into place. From what I can tell, Amiga-wise, they tend not to fall into place rather often because while there is still affection and dedication for the Amiga, there is always very little money. Lack of money means that you have to take risks which otherwise could have been mitigated or driven away.

You can see the results of that lack of money play out, and if you cannot see how they came about, the easiest explanation for another failure to deliver something that lives up to your expectations are likely incompetence, lack of seriousness or even malice.

In this Amiga business nostalgia seems to have finally replaced the sense of looking ahead and making do with the tools you are given. The Amiga was always enabling you to accomplish something with it, not just the productivity software that existed, you could even build worthwhile software with it.

With nostalgia, it's more like you are yearning to return to how things never were, as you remembered and idealized them. I've been around, it's never been as good as it is made out to be.

You can still put the Amiga to good use right now, and you do not have to wait for the sudden emergence of an Amiga operating system which looks sufficiently legitimate in your eyes to be worthy of the Amiga ideal.

Enough said? Well, one more thing: what hurts me most, personally, is the talk about an Amiga community which could accomplish so much if only it had access to the real Amiga operating system source code. It hurts me personally, because by now I am painfully aware of how few people are left who are technically able or willing to learn how to make Amiga software. I know a thing or two about that subject. There used to be so many more around who were much more knowledgeable than I may be today. Where are they now? Who is going to assume the same responsibilities?

Talking about the operating system without also considering how to care for it, and who could be doing it, neglects answering the more painful questions.

@olsen

i dont think malice can here be pinpointed or even suspected as a reason for failure. the problems were there to begin with. they are of structural nature. they were inherited from the decline of mother company and their busiess practices, but also a result of continuos mis-attitudes of the target audience, such as self indoctrintion in superiority of the platform no matter what.

it simply wasnt possible to improve on this for whoever tried, neither of teams or as you may call them, camps, have succeeded in this respect. in particular it certainly isnt any sort of your personal fault due to any technical incompetence or such.

i dont think that people who would desire open sourcing the os think that way.
as far as i understand they merely think that opening the platform might compensate for people leaving with people who might arrriving if only for their experimental interest. we had such arrivals on aros, and very competent ones, so far i can tell.

but it is, at least to me, understandable, that this is not an option, at least not for os4.

Last edited by wawa on 13-May-2017 at 03:09 PM.

@olsen

I thoroughly enjoyed your post. Thank you for posting.

I do not wish to dismiss any issue you raised, but personally I am curious how you feel strictly from a developer standpoint, fully realizing you can only speak for yourself...

Quote:

It hurts me personally, because by now I am painfully aware of how few people are left who are technically able or willing to learn how to make Amiga software. I know a thing or two about that subject. There used to be so many more around who were much more knowledgeable than I may be today.

My personal knowledge gathered from what can only be called opinion of many principals is that most developers departed during the 2007-2009 period of the lawsuit. Secondarily more left during several years of the CUSA affair (for lack of a better term).

In both cases the exodus of developers stemmed from what I believe to be concerns over an uncertain future due to legal issues pertaining to ownership (and all that entails) of the IP.

Is it unfair for me to think that a declining state of affairs can not be reversed until such time as these matters are settled to the satisfaction of all parties concerned?

#6

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*Secrecy has served us so well*

@olsen

I also feel compelled to respond to your post on english amiga board, in the case that the following comments might affect/adjust any opinion you might wish to share with others:

Source

Quote:

Amiga's assets are probably just one part of a big lump of investments which need to be managed

Indeed. For what it's worth I covered a bit of that here:

Source

Quote:

In the mean time the other portions of the portfolio probably are still making money, so there is no immediate need to drop the Amiga assets. Because these investments are still making money,

If you read the above thread you'll see that Kouri was virtually bankrupt.
Quote:

it took more than 40 attorneys from the Reed Smith six years to untangle tens of millions of dollars in debt owed by his estate, according to court papers filed by Reed Smith lawyers.

If you're curious about how much money has been recovered, a simple google search will suffice for both property and artwork:

Search parameter

I'll repeat this part of your quote:

Quote:

so there is no immediate need to drop the Amiga assets.

There might be a need if it is a prerequisite to closing the estate and you weigh the amounts of money involved from the other assets with the perceived value of the Amiga assets.

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

listen, why even bother with all that sad stuff. its not up to us to take any action in this matter. it should be treated as a black box, except one enjoys drama and intrigue, and that the reason for him to be here. i know thaths brute to tell.. but if legacy of the system is lost, beyond reach of the community as (potential) contributors, then so be it. the sooner evrybody reealizes it with all its consequences, the better.

@wawa

I think Number6 question to olsen, a perceived former or current Amiga programmer, is a valid question, worth answering, but that is up to olsen of course to decide. If the undecided, or unknown status of the IP ownership is a concern of programmers, it does affect our community. Personally, I don't think that the IP ownership question should be of any consequence at this point in time, but others might feel differently.

@eliyahu,

Your personal opinions about any members alleged "trolling" comments should probably be kept to yourself, seeing that you are the main moderator of these forums. Or perhaps you should consider stepping down as a moderator, if you cannot be more objective/less protective of any single camp/platform?

Work+Hobby is The Best.

A Dream came true.

Usually if any fire up the miga. In boring jobs start the pc..

@BoingBear

Quote:

Your personal opinions about any members alleged "trolling" comments should probably be kept to yourself, seeing that you are the main moderator of these forums. Or perhaps you should consider stepping down as a moderator, if you cannot be more objective/less protective of any single camp/platform?

i am not a moderator at this site.

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@BoingBear

Well, I share eliyahu´s opinion and would support him as moderator.

This site was created as safe haven for AmigaOne users (it was even official support forum in the Eyetech times), now every Hyperion/OS4/A1 related thread is derailed by the very same names - not OS4 users at all... on the other hand, AW would be too boring place without them.

@pavlor

safe haven, mygod, this endangered species has their boring safe haven elsewhere. and you could finally make up your mind rather than propose two opposite opinions in one sentence.

@wawa

I agree with that pavlor. It opinions are great they make things interesting, but on the other hand when is it posting the same sh*t over and over just because someone hate Ben, or don't like AmigaOS, the site becomes Moo Bunny no one wont's to be here anymore.

There was time when Hyperion developers posted here, now you don't see often anymore.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-May-2017 at 12:16 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-May-2017 at 12:14 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-May-2017 at 12:14 PM.

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@pavlor

then better call it os4world or amigaoneworld and not amigaworld

Chris is trolling too if he insists that only the "only true successor" can be intrated in a chart with 3.1 and MorphOS/AROS (including my favorite 68k branch) has to left out. Trolling or not trolling depends on how you look at it.

Safe heaven is already on amigans, how many safe heavens do the couple of hundreds OS4 users need?

Last edited by OlafS25 on 14-May-2017 at 12:44 PM.

@NutsAboutAmiga

if they acted professional they would simply ignore the noise. I can remember Ben H. here, I (and some others) asked serious questions, of course some others not but Ben H. only reacted to the flaming instead of ignoring them and answered zero of the serious questions. If there would be no reaction users that only want to make provocations get bored. Regarding this thread, I cannot rememver personal attacks but personal views should be allowed as long as they do not insult others.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 14-May-2017 at 12:43 PM.