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      /  Amiga for the future?
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tonyw 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 14-Jun-2017 11:10:27
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3215
From: Sydney (of course)

@TRIPOS

I usually take your posts as those of a troll so either ignore them or read on to the next post in the thread. However, your opening post in this thread strikes me as very different from what I expect.

You have asked an intelligent question that may not be answered for many months. This "fake war" between erstwhile associates is IMHO going to be messy and will inevitably end up in conciliation and compromise on both sides. It (a new war) is the last thing that any of us needs. Its outcome, though, could be beneficial.

I think that some people will disagree with your interpretation of IP and copyright law, but that's what keeps lawyers in business. I don't consider myself sufficiently educated in that sphere to comment and I have obvious connections to both the Hyperion and A-Eon camps so I could only make biassed comments and you'll get enough of those.

Meanwhile, I think it's a good question and I hope you are right when you say "it could mean a stronger, less fragmented platform". Bring it on.

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Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 17-Jun-2017 12:15:54
#42 ]
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Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1154
From: Unknown

@tonyw

Just because you personally aren't comfortable with the subjects and questions I raise, it doesn't mean that they aren't intelligent, well-founded and without reason. I'm not making things up.

Anyway, to reconnect with the topic of the discussion: given the good relations between Cloanto and AeonKit, maybe there is a plan for further development of the "Amiga Technology"? But if you consider 4.2 to be Just a Label, and the dead-end PPC architecture as the base of a sustainable long-term future, then one has to ask "what's the point?"...

Maybe those in the community wanting a true NG path should look at the alternative options sooner, rather than later...?

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number6 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 17-Jun-2017 12:42:54
#43 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@tonyw

Quote:
This "fake war" between erstwhile associates


Well written imo, but I think it's important to include "past and present" in terms of "associates", in order to understand the scale of said war.

#6

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 17-Jun-2017 18:46:58
#44 ]
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Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1154
From: Unknown

@number6 & tonyw

TrevorDick obviously has a fat wallet. That could help the lawyers a lot.

(BTW, "fake wars" doesn't get messy, only real ones. And I agree, it could very well become messy!)

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number6 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 17-Jun-2017 18:50:16
#45 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@TRIPOS

I'm confused. Why would anyone want to "help the lawyers a lot"?
And which lawyers are you talking about?

#6

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dommer416 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 18-Jun-2017 16:24:42
#46 ]
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Joined: 1-Jun-2017
Posts: 55
From: Western Earth

@TRIPOS

If this is really the only way that the amiga is going to go forward the best thing that could be done is just to open source it, which would be a better model anyways. It would be tedious, but then you don't have people grabassing for all the money they can get and being asshats about it.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 18-Jun-2017 19:57:11
#47 ]
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Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1154
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@TRIPOS

I'm confused. Why would anyone want to "help the lawyers a lot"?


Because their willingness to put down meaningful work for you correlates with your ability to provide them with means for furs to their wives, Porsche's to their teenage offspring and business trips to Saint Tropez together with their mistresses?


Quote:
And which lawyers are you talking about?


My bet would be those on Cloanto's side? I suppose we'll know some day in a not too distant future...

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number6 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 18-Jun-2017 20:03:49
#48 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@TRIPOS

Quote:
My bet would be those on Cloanto's side?


Not so impressed with Reed Smith's entry into the fray, eh? heh.

#6

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Overflow 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 18-Jun-2017 20:23:14
#49 ]
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Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

AROS

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 18-Jun-2017 23:55:28
#50 ]
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Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1154
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@TRIPOS

Quote:
My bet would be those on Cloanto's side?


Not so impressed with Reed Smith's entry into the fray, eh? heh.

#6


Indeed no.

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Dandy 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 22-Jun-2017 9:14:42
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@TRIPOS

...
Amiga forever is just re-branded WinUAE.
...



If that's correct, how is possible then that setting up AF2016 is completely different to setting up the latest UAE?

The screeshots in postings regarding how to install OS 4.1FE classic on the latest WinUAE are completely different to what I have in AF2016...

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 29-Jun-2017 23:54:45
#52 ]
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Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1154
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

To reconnect to the original post in this thread about the past, current and possible future outcomes (as well as the referenced quotes from Olaf "Olsen" Barthel in his posts in that other thread), this text can now be read on http://cloanto.org:

A Discourse on Possible Futures

After more than 10 years as successful Commodore/Amiga developers, in 1997 Cloanto switched to "preservation mode" and released the first version of Amiga Forever. This was followed by C64 Forever, the 8-bit complement to Amiga Forever which is rightly seen by many as "CBM Forever". Since then, our work in this field has always been done at little or no pay, and with time that was taken away from other work and personal projects. Preservation was our quiet mission long before it became a celebrated buzzword. If you are familiar with what we do and why we do it, the challenges, the white hair, and the thick skin you need to run such an effort while both abiding by the law and listening to those who find fault with doing so, you already know that we don't need to wrap the same efforts under a "nonprofit" label to feel better. We do however realize that certain formal structures, while adding bureaucracy and other complications that as a lean team we are not overly enthusiastic about, may help convey trust and move towards the goals that we have been pursuing for more than 20 years.

For these reasons, at various Commodore/Amiga events which took place between September 2014 and January 2017, we started to privately and publicly discuss possible futures involving open source, a nonprofit and/or foundation, and other long-term preservation scenarios for the legacy which we worked so passionately to keep alive. A lot of work has already been done on this front (e.g. 1, 2, 3, 4), but so much more remains to be done. For now, this is only a discourse, and it needs your voice. On our side, we keep working as usual, attending community events and making things possible with the generous support of our customer-user-friends. While we already have contingency plans in place to preserve and make accessible our work in certain scenarios, one of the goals of handing over certain assets to a foundation or similar entity would be to better make it prosper during our lifetimes.

If you would like to support us in any way, or to simply express your interest in this ongoing effort, please enter your email address below. If you prefer, send us a message. Either way, we will follow up to continue the conversation.

[Then follows a form where you can submit your e-mail address]


That Cloanto has a complete package for preservationists covered is not news, but they are obviously interested in securing a long-term future of the Amiga legacy in a wider scope. They invite to an open discourse about this, and the fact that they put things on the table like "open source", "foundation", etc, suggests some evolutionist scope as well. In practice this could mean continued development on Olaf Barthels "Boing Ball Branch" for the good of the Amiga Community, possibly as some kind of a community effort. Anything might be possible?

Cloanto wants to open a discourse about this!


Quote:
TRIPOS wrote:

As I wrote in the first post in this thread, it could mean a stronger, less fragmented platform, depending on the good will of various leading people (both developers and IP owners) when the dust settles.


Well, there you go! If you are willing to help in any way, please join in! Developers etc, please consider submitting your e-mail. It's still early on in the discourse and my interpretation is that they want your input in shaping the future of Amiga to best be in the communitys interest, much like what was sought for by Olaf Barthel in that other thread!

Last edited by TRIPOS on 30-Jun-2017 at 12:18 AM.

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wawa 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 30-Jun-2017 5:49:01
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

this has been discussed on eab. i expressed support, but so far one was invited to help testing amiga forewer, which im not interested in. ill stand by supportive, but i prefer to work on aros in the meantime.

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iggy 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 30-Jun-2017 6:06:13
#54 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@wawa

Quote:
i prefer to work on aros in the meantime.


Already open source, and without legal entanglements or issues involving mere trademarks.
Seems rational.

Its taken how long to move from 'preservationist' to 'opportunist' mode?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 30-Jun-2017 17:10:00
#55 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11927
From: Norway

@TRIPOS

"preservation" means keeping things as they are, this can really hurt more then it helps. Amiga has to move forwards, or else it becomes irrelevant, sure its great to remember things as they once was, but Amiga back in 80/90 was primitive, even now a lot of the technology is primitive.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 30-Jun-2017 17:10:39
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11927
From: Norway

@Dandy

I have been thinking about making my own Forever player, its not that complicated.
Emulation is not on my most interesting projects to work on.

But any it be cool to bring back Amiga to AmigaOS, instead of Microsoft Windows.
I does kind of annoy me that best emulation software is for Windows.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-Jun-2017 at 05:33 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-Jun-2017 at 05:32 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-Jun-2017 at 05:25 PM.

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number6 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 30-Jun-2017 17:18:33
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
"preservation" means keeping things as they are,


In that case, since Hyperion filed for the Amiga Forever trademark (euipo), does that mean Hyperion's goal is also to keep things just the way they are and hence why they wish to attach themselves to that trademark?

#6

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 30-Jun-2017 17:23:08
#58 ]
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11927
From: Norway

@number6

I just counter move, they are not really interested in Amiga Forever name, they are only doing it to kick back, as Cloanto try's to grab any rights they can.

Smoke and mirrors, nothing more.

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number6 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 30-Jun-2017 18:06:58
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
I just counter move, they are not really interested in Amiga Forever name, they are only doing it to kick back, as Cloanto try's to grab any rights they can.

I read your post as indicating that Cloanto is the agressor here.


Hyperion's filing in Benelux for Workbench

This document clearly shows a date of December, 2016.

Cloanto's filing for Amiga was January, 2017. (all other filings in the trademark thread show 2017 dates)

I take no stance in this, but...might the above facts cause the casual observer of all of the filings to question who the agressor is?

#6

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iggy 
Re: Amiga for the future?
Posted on 30-Jun-2017 18:25:24
#60 ]
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Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@number6

Aggressor? Again, two dogs fighting over a well worn bone.

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