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PosterThread
Hypex 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 15-Jul-2017 5:47:30
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@iggy

Quote:
Safari for PPC? The last version I know of is 5.0.6, which is quite dated.


Yes I use the latest Webkit build for PPC.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/leopard-webkit/files/603/Leopard/PowerPC

Quote:
If you are using OSX, then TenFourFox is much more current.


I find it a bit slow and it's cut down. They removed a few media codecs. Maybe Leopard slows it down.

Quote:
And yes, Linux works better than OSX, as it is more up to date.


If only my PowerBook had more room Ubuntu would be nice.

Quote:
One of the interests of some of the people working on the PPC laptop project is the continuing support of big endian Linux distros for PowerPC.


Oh that's good. I'll be rallying my support and waving my big end of the stick.

Last edited by Hypex on 15-Jul-2017 at 11:26 AM.

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recedent 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 15-Jul-2017 10:10:54
#62 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2010
Posts: 227
From: Tarnów

@iggy

Quote:
And I can't run anything much better than my ATI X1900GT under OSX, whereas I have access to better video cards under Linux (and soon under MorphOS).


Well, you can always stick the X1900 in PCIe x8 and some higher-end card in PCIe x16. This way you will have both OSX on slower card and MorphOS on better one. Or so they tell me...

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iggy 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 15-Jul-2017 17:41:40
#63 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@recedent

Well, MorphOS won't run on a PCIe G5 (at least not the versions they are willing to let me try).
I'm sure at least one of the developers has an exploratory port for that model, but I assume they don't want that to cannibalize X5000 sales.

So on the AGP G5, I'm stuck with the Apple X1900GT under MorphOS, OSX, and Linux.
At least until R600, R700 support is released for MorphOS (IF AGP cards are supported, and that isn't a certainty yet), then I could consider an AGP 3850, 4650, or 4670 (and drop OSX as it isn't that useful to me anyway).

In the meanwhile, I'm still waffling on whether to buy an X5000/20 or hold out for an X5000/40 (which will definitely be the better system).
I already have a quad core 2.5 GHz PowerMac G5, but that sees duty primarily as a Linux system (again, an issue of video card support), so unless OS4 or MorphOS is released for that (and there ARE rumors about OS4 support), no 'Amigoid' OS for that set up (outside of UAE).

I'd really like a SAM460, as I can get both PPC NG OS' for that and Linux (and I really don't see that happening on the A1222).
IF I could find one, I might be able to arrange to try out the beta Radeon HD drivers Mark 'Bigfoot' Olsen has (as I don't have a PCIe system to try them on otherwise - which serves to push me toward the premature decision on the X5000 mentioned above).

BUT, since job constraints prevent me from attending AmiWest this year, and possibly demoing those drivers, I should cool my jets and shelling out more $ for my hobby pursuits and just be patient.

Still, is hard to be patient with so many possible new developments.
Others may be interested in the possible release of the A1222 at AmiWest (as I've stated TOO many times already, it doesn't turn my crank).
The PPC laptop project is moving forward (as the first 4000 euros has been donated).
Accelerated video card drivers for the Radeon HD cards under MorphOS are being created.
And there are those persistent rumors about OS4 support for the Mac Mini, PowerBook, and G5 (btw - I've seen strong evidence that at least for the first system, this is not a rumor, I have just been asked not to expound on it).

SO, good things coming to us (that wait).
Hey, I even forgot to include the Apollo team's steady improvement of their core project(s).
Doesn't matter what flavor of 'Amiga' you prefer (except maybe PPC AROS), everything seems to be getting some upgrade.

Last edited by iggy on 15-Jul-2017 at 05:44 PM.

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ne_one 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 15-Jul-2017 18:27:17
#64 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 905
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:

Doesn't matter what flavor of 'Amiga' you prefer (except maybe PPC AROS), everything seems to be getting some upgrade.


And that in itself is a double-edged sword.

When you try to provide everything to everyone...



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iggy 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 15-Jul-2017 20:34:29
#65 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@ne_one

Quote:
And that in itself is a double-edged sword. When you try to provide everything to everyone...


That does seem to be a problem specific to AROS.

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ne_one 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 16-Jul-2017 1:21:39
#66 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 905
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:

That does seem to be a problem specific to AROS.


In the Amiga realm it's a widespread curse.

It's great that the market has shifted from being on life support to having a renewed sense of energy but to move forward there needs to be focus and cooperation.

On the plus side, there is an undercurrent gaining traction that promotes the concept of working together towards a common goal. That is unprecedented and important.

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pavlor 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 16-Jul-2017 7:42:59
#67 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@ne_one

Quote:
but to move forward there needs to be focus and cooperation.


Well, cooperation may be possible in some areas - eg. common development tools for easier cross-platform development (that was goal of adtools project). However, focus is hard to achieve, when every faction has its own legitime goals.

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wawa 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 16-Jul-2017 11:09:22
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:
That does seem to be a problem specific to AROS.


on the contrary. aros approach is a solution to that. abctracting the system from hardware (hal) allows to quickly port the essential part from one platform to another. except of specific dedicated drivers of course. cross platform availability allows to cross test code. when i compile the same code for 68k and x85 at the same time it may occur that i receive warnings on one platform id miss on another. low spec platforms allow to keep the system tight. of course some specific features like parametrizing functions on 68k make sometimes usage of macros necessary that may make code look compilcated or perhaps a bit clumsy. thats a trade off.

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recedent 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 16-Jul-2017 12:13:59
#69 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2010
Posts: 227
From: Tarnów

@iggy

Quote:
Well, MorphOS won't run on a PCIe G5 (at least not the versions they are willing to let me try).


Yes, the current public version of MorphOS won't run on a PCIe. But I personally know two people who do run the beta on it. Of course it doesn't mean the G5 PCIe supporting version will be out at all, but...

As for the AGP - I doubt higher end gfx cards will give you a speed benefit you're looking for. At least Bigfoot suggests otherwise. Even heard the X1900GT could be slower than X850XT (but we would have to do a benchmark to prove that - ready?).

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ne_one 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 16-Jul-2017 19:39:43
#70 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 905
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

However, focus is hard to achieve, when every faction has its own legitime goals.


I'm suggesting that most goals aren't legitimate within the context of a modern market.

It's all well and good to cast every Amiga venture as a "hobby" but it means that limited resources are stretched too thin and there is no revenue to take it beyond the stage of being an experiment.

The progress of this platform has been significantly impeded by the lack of a driving force and an OS that is stuck in the year 2005.

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iggy 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 16-Jul-2017 20:59:00
#71 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@recedent

Mmm, yeah, I supplied Mark the X1950Pro AGP card he used when writing the R500 drivers.
It was his request as he wanted to use his G5 system for the work.
The bridge chip present on that board really slows it down.

Since then he has acquired a SAM460 and an X5000, so the R600 and R700 drivers are not being created on an AGP system.
Also, while I've sent him R600 and R700 AGP cards, there is no guarantee that those will be supported, I just included them as a potential option.

I DO expect the Radeon HD 3000 and 4000 series cards to be a significant upgrade from the X1xxx cards.
Primarily because they won't be crippled by a PCIe to AGP bridge chip, although they are much more powerful than the earlier X1xxx cards.

And both the 3000 and 4000 series drivers are supposed to support acceleration and compositing.
That last feature may not make it into the initial release of the HD 5000 and 6000 series drivers.
And the GCN series' cards (HD 7000 and above), will not have driver support for awhile (last time I check, Mark had only gotten those to work as unaccelerated frame buffers).

As to who might be running PCIe G5s, I'm not sure I want to know.
But I'm fairly sure that MorphOS isn't the only NG OS that developers are fooling around with on that system.
THAT alone should pique the interest of the community outside the MorphOS base.

Anyway, like I said, 2017 is shaping up to be a good year for the Amiga community.

I wish I could figure out how to free up the weekend that AmiWest is taking place on.
It should be a good meet.

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iggy 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 16-Jul-2017 22:45:55
#72 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@ne_one

Quote:
...an OS that is stuck in the year 2005


I think you are being gracious there.

Really, its more like we are stuck back in 1993, since 3.5, 3.9, and 4.0 haven't really added much to the game (and all NG OS' focus on 3.1 API compatibility).

WinXP was available as a 64bit version by 2005, so in reality, we are still pretty far behind the curve.

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Raffaele 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 17-Jul-2017 9:35:44
#73 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1906
From: Naples, Italy

@Thread

4170 Dollars donated so far...

Who said 4000 was the first milestone to grant development at least of of electric schemes?

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

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Raffaele 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 17-Jul-2017 11:42:00
#74 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1906
From: Naples, Italy

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote:
@Raffaele

Raffaele,

PowerOrg doesn't exitst anymore.

Try openpower consortium, although they are really focused on Power8 and Power9 for server and big data analytics.
Btw could worth a try


Yes. When I saw PowerOrg being not active since 2013 I searched for other Power Architecture representatives and I found OpenPower so i signalled fundraising there, and also IBM PPC LINUX page on twitter and I signalled fundraising there too...

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

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iggy 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 17-Jul-2017 12:12:19
#75 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@Raffaele

Quote:
Who said 4000 was the first milestone to grant development at least of of electric schemes


Not 100% accurate.
Acube wants 12,600 for the schematics, but will start working on them when they get the first 4000 euros.

So...hey! We've got that! But we still need about 8000 more.

I think we'll get there.

Last edited by iggy on 19-Jul-2017 at 03:51 PM.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 19-Jul-2017 13:57:36
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3512
From: Unknown

Bringing back this thread on the main page.

Please support the campain

_________________
retired

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pavlor 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 19-Jul-2017 17:50:46
#77 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:
But I'm fairly sure that MorphOS isn't the only NG OS that developers are fooling around with on that system.


You mean OS4? That would menace X5000 sales as 970MP is much faster than P5040. I wish they rather release port for PowerBook/iBook.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 24-Jul-2017 12:54:29
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3512
From: Unknown

@all

a little effort...

Please support the campain


_________________
retired

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tlosm 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 24-Jul-2017 13:42:50
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land

@pavlor

The problem of 970MP are only ... Noisy, heavy and really energy hungry.
For the remain is a great machine that gave me great happyness in 2017 too.
another issue is it is only Pcie 1.0 it mean the last gen Radeon gpu boards not work on it.

Last edited by tlosm on 24-Jul-2017 at 01:44 PM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

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iggy 
Re: Open source PPC laptop bounty
Posted on 24-Jul-2017 15:29:14
#80 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@tlosm

Quote:
another issue is it is only Pcie 1.0 it mean the last gen Radeon gpu boards not work on it.


That is a more complex issue than the blanket statement you've made.
All PCIe 3.0 cards are 2.0 compatible, and some will run in 1.0 and 1.1 slots.

Its significant to note that I have heard it rumored that Radeon GCN 1 generation cards can be made to work in older slots (which at this point are the most recent cards supported by OS4), and one source has told me they have started to work on getting a Gen2 card to work.

BUT, rumor and fact...obviously very different.

I have seen cards prior to the GCN cards working in PowerMac G5 PCIe systems.
For those of you that haven't, here is a video of a Radeon HD 6570 installed in a PowerMac G5 running Linux.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so35SrThHUs&t=7s

There are significant issues with the fact that later cards rely on UEFI rather than a conventional BIOS, but neither OS4 nor MorphOS use conventional BIOS calls and their video card drivers are based on AtomBIOS calls.

As such, many of the incompatibility issues which stem from bios call problems, are not an issue with NG OS' (and for that matter are probably not a problem under Linux).

Of course, I do NOT want to endorse the idea that someone should buy video cards for systems that they have not been tested in.
AND, MorphOS does NOT support PCIe G5 PowerMacs (at least not yet), nor does OS4.
So, don't buy PCIe G5s with the assumption you will be able to run either.

BTW - They DO make really cool PPC Linux platforms though.

However, IF MorphOS or OS4 was available for the PCIe PowerMac G5, we can assume that Radeon HD cards based on everything up to the GCN cards should be OK.
And we have accelerated drivers for OS4 for those cards.

Finally, the next updates for MorphOS video cards will probably NOT support GCN cards (as development of video card drivers for MorphOS tends to be evolutionary and doesn't skip generations).
The next driver is reported to offer acceleration for Terascale 1, 2 (and possibly 3) cards, with GCN support at a later date (unless they decide to throw in an un-accelerated driver as they have in the past for higher end Terascale cards).

Last edited by iggy on 24-Jul-2017 at 04:09 PM.
Last edited by iggy on 24-Jul-2017 at 04:07 PM.
Last edited by iggy on 24-Jul-2017 at 03:33 PM.

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