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   /  Amiga OS4 Hardware
      /  Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
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AmigaOldskooler 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 13-Aug-2017 17:36:21
#61 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2015
Posts: 282
From: Unknown

@outrun1978

Thanks mate! I've got a long list of games to review, so it'll be good to get started up again.

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tlosm 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 13-Aug-2017 17:48:00
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land

@AmigaOldskooler

good choice for a good amigaos experience

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Beans 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 13-Aug-2017 21:00:56
#63 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@pavlor

Quote:
I fear I don´t understand what you mean. Current OS4 applications work on Tabor (as reported in Tower 57 video), albeit with performance penalty.


"...albeit with performance penalty", that would be at least part of my dissatisfaction with your conclusion that its 'solved'.
But I'm sure, given time the performance of the JIT trapping routines will improve.

And there is always recompilation as a work around.

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Zylesea 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 13-Aug-2017 22:35:13
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@AmigaOldskooler

While not having owned a Sam460 myself I think this machine has a few advantages:
pretty small and can run not only OS4 but also MorphOS (problem is findinga gfx cards that suits both OSes well).

Depends on price of course - the Sams were rather overpriced when new, but I could imagine that a few used systems will get become available that will not cost a fortune anymore.

Overall the Sam460 is a bit weak of course - but could be a fun system nonetheless ( I even have some fun with the 400 MHz Efika) and supporting OS4 _and_ MorphOS makes it pretty useful.
If you can get hold of a Peg2 that would be my best recomendation, a bit old now, but still a good machine and well supported by OS4 and MorphOS.

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Spectre660 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 13-Aug-2017 23:01:33
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3918
From: Unknown

@Zylesea

MorphOS graphics card support may be too far behind at the moment for this.

AmigaOS 4.1 has accelerated 2D support for

- Radeon X1300-X1950 graphics (not recommended)
- Radeon HD 2000-7000 series graphics card (excluding the Radeon HD 7790)
- Radeon R5 230/235/235X
- Radeon R7 240D/240//250 (may not work with Sam460ex)
- Radeon R7 250X/265
- Radeon R9 270/270X/280/280X

New 3D (Nova) support for

- Radeon HD 77xx-79xx series graphics card (excluding the Radeon HD 7790)
- Radeon R7 240D/240/250 (may not work with Sam460ex)
- Radeon /250E/250X/265
- Radeon R9 270/270X/280/280X

Quote:

Zylesea wrote:
@AmigaOldskooler

While not having owned a Sam460 myself I think this machine has a few advantages:
pretty small and can run not only OS4 but also MorphOS (problem is findinga gfx cards that suits both OSes well).

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Beans 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 0:18:54
#66 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Spectre660

Yes, Spectre660 posst on our forum as well, so he's up to date on our developments.
We do have an accelerated 3D driver for the R500 series (which includes cards up to the X1950XTX), but this card only has 2D acceleration under OS4.

The next driver update for MorphOS is supposed to cover all Radeon cards before the GCN gpus.
So the R600 gpus (2000 and 3000 series), the R700 gpus (4000 series), as well as the 5000 and 6000 series cards will be supported with accelerated drivers.

Notice that that doesn't include higher end 7000 series cards (although some lower end 7000 series cards are Terascale cards, not GCN), so all cards in Spectre's second list...won't be supported with this update.

The GCN cards are supposed to be eventual target, but its anyone's guess as to when they will be supported.

So, dual booting both OS' would, for the near future, seem to limit you to 2D (at least under OS4).

Initially, I'll probably be using a Radeon HD 4890, as the R700 driver for MorphOS is supposed to support overlay (which the higher drivers apparently won't at first).
I'd rather use a 5000 or 6000 series card (I'm fond of the 5670, 5750, and 6750), but I'll settle for the 4000 series as it will offer the best balance for both NG OS'.

Hopefully we'll eventual have GCN gen 1 drivers (they would be the next nature step), then these issues will no longer be a problem.

Last edited by Beans on 14-Aug-2017 at 12:19 AM.

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outrun1978 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 6:04:29
#67 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@Beans

I have the Sam 460Cr model without the onboard audio (SM502) which means no audio support in MorphOS unless this has changed?

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Beans 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 12:22:12
#68 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@outrun1978

Well, what you need is a sound card. The problem with that is that most SAM460CR users have an SATA controller plugged into their system's PCI slot, and currently MorphOS does not support PCI-E sound cards that would plug into the remaining expansion slot.

The good news on that front is that the update containing X5000 support is supposed to include drivers for CMI8738 based sound cards (which are available in PCI-E X1 variants).
So if you're not using the PCI-E X1 slot, you'll have that option soon.

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Zylesea 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 12:28:39
#69 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@Beans

Quote:

Beans wrote:
@outrun1978

Well, what you need is a sound card. The problem with that is that most SAM460CR users have an SATA controller plugged into their system's PCI slot, and currently MorphOS does not support PCI-E sound cards that would plug into the remaining expansion slot.


There is a good chance the next MorphOS update will include support for usb isochronous mode. If so, usb soundcards will become an option.

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outrun1978 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 14:50:12
#70 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@Beans

thanks for the update beans and it looks like i may be screwed again with the sound on the X5000, else i need to find a new sound card for MorphOS

Am currently using the Envy 24HT which came with the Sam460cr/Amigaone500 set up. I did try a CMI-8738 that i got from Amazon quite cheaply but it worked for a few days and then gave up

Will it only be CMI-8738 that MorphOS will be supporting with the X5000 or are there others that I should try and look out for?

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Beans 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 16:11:25
#71 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@outrun1978

You are in luck!
I exchanged messages with one of the developers a few weeks ago, and he mentioned that the Envy24HT driver was probably going to be updated as well.
The prime reason I didn't mention it is that is generally a PCI based device.
I just bought a Chaintech Envy24HT card a week ago for myself (in case this actually happens).

It will be great to retire the SoundBlaster Live cards I've been using.

I am worried about the issues people are reporting with CMI8738 based cards, myself.

If we could just talk them into supporting something better.

Asus Xonar cards are relatively cheap, available, and put out good sound.

BTW - Does anyone know why PCI-E X1 SATA controllers haven't been supported yet?
The would allow a PCI sound card to be used on a SAM460, while still allowing for a plug-in hard drive card. And while PCI-E X1 is bandwidth limited, its got more bandwidth than PCI and can handle SATA2 (although transfer rates on SATA3 are slowed down to about SATA2 levels).

Last edited by Beans on 14-Aug-2017 at 04:15 PM.

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outrun1978 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 16:43:17
#72 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@Beans

Thats good news on the Envy 24HT sound card, certainly from my own experience it isn't a bad card with some good sound quality off it, so I would be rather annoyed to have to get rid of it.

Am looking forward to trying out MorphOS on the X5000 when it eventually appears

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Spectre660 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 21:02:52
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3918
From: Unknown

@Beans

They are not supported by the Sam460ex U-boot as a controller that can be booted from.


Quote:

Beans wrote:
@outrun1978

BTW - Does anyone know why PCI-E X1 SATA controllers haven't been supported yet?
The would allow a PCI sound card to be used on a SAM460, while still allowing for a plug-in hard drive card. And while PCI-E X1 is bandwidth limited, its got more bandwidth than PCI and can handle SATA2 (although transfer rates on SATA3 are slowed down to about SATA2 levels).

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Beans 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 14-Aug-2017 21:22:21
#74 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Spectre660

So U-boot would need to be updated to boot from them, got it.

It would just be nice to have support for something more advanced than a Silicon Image disk controller, and there are limits to PCI bandwidth.

Obviously I don't need to worry about that with the X5000, unless we want to install SATA3 controllers in the PCI-E X4 slot.
And even if that wasn't supported by firmware, it should be possible for non-bootable drives to be supported (booting the system from drives connected to the SATA2 controllers).

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Spectre660 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 15-Aug-2017 10:41:04
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3918
From: Unknown

@Beans

One issue with the pciex1 cards was that MorphOS was not recognizing the chipset behind the Asmedia 1083 bridge chip on the card with the Sam460ex.
This was one of the problems that I tried to file a bug report to the MorphOS Devs a couple of years ago.

Quote:

Beans wrote:
@outrun1978

You are in luck!
I exchanged messages with one of the developers a few weeks ago, and he mentioned that the Envy24HT driver was probably going to be updated as well.
The prime reason I didn't mention it is that is generally a PCI based device.
I just bought a Chaintech Envy24HT card a week ago for myself (in case this actually happens).

It will be great to retire the SoundBlaster Live cards I've been using.

I am worried about the issues people are reporting with CMI8738 based cards, myself.

If we could just talk them into supporting something better.

Asus Xonar cards are relatively cheap, available, and put out good sound.

BTW - Does anyone know why PCI-E X1 SATA controllers haven't been supported yet?
The would allow a PCI sound card to be used on a SAM460, while still allowing for a plug-in hard drive card. And while PCI-E X1 is bandwidth limited, its got more bandwidth than PCI and can handle SATA2 (although transfer rates on SATA3 are slowed down to about SATA2 levels).

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Beans 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 15-Aug-2017 12:55:05
#76 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Spectre660

They must have been paying attention.
I haven't heard that the CMI8738 driver will be limited to PCI cards.

Bridge chips can be challenging to work with though.
Aren't there bridge chips used in the X5000 design in the multiplexing of its slots?

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Spectre660 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 15-Aug-2017 14:17:53
#77 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3918
From: Unknown

@Beans

Yep.
X5000 seems two have two different bridge chips .

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Beans 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 15-Aug-2017 14:23:50
#78 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Spectre660

Quote:
X5000 seems two have two different bridge chips


Well, the learning curve creating code for those should be helpful with other applications.
Hopefully the issue with the SAM460 will be resolved.

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Spectre660 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 15-Aug-2017 14:29:06
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3918
From: Unknown


Duplicate post.

Last edited by Spectre660 on 15-Aug-2017 at 03:10 PM.

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Spectre660 
Re: Buy Sam 460 or Tabor?
Posted on 17-Aug-2017 13:32:53
#80 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3918
From: Unknown

Anyone have a working PCI Envy24HT Tremor audio card under AmigaOS 4.1 ?

Quote:

Beans wrote:
@outrun1978

You are in luck!
I exchanged messages with one of the developers a few weeks ago, and he mentioned that the Envy24HT driver was probably going to be updated as well.
The prime reason I didn't mention it is that is generally a PCI based device.
I just bought a Chaintech Envy24HT card a week ago for myself (in case this actually happens).

It will be great to retire the SoundBlaster Live cards I've been using.

I am worried about the issues people are reporting with CMI8738 based cards, myself.

If we could just talk them into supporting something better.

Asus Xonar cards are relatively cheap, available, and put out good sound.

BTW - Does anyone know why PCI-E X1 SATA controllers haven't been supported yet?
The would allow a PCI sound card to be used on a SAM460, while still allowing for a plug-in hard drive card. And while PCI-E X1 is bandwidth limited, its got more bandwidth than PCI and can handle SATA2 (although transfer rates on SATA3 are slowed down to about SATA2 levels).

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