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/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
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PosterThread
pavlor 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 14:08:37
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9094
From: Unknown

@Signman

Quote:
Back in the day it was condoned and accepted to pirate or "copy" your software.


Software piracy is considered one of the nails to the coffin of Amiga... We all were young and similar excuses. Now everyone has steady income and is able to pay few EUR for software.

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simplex 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 14:35:45
#42 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 786
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@pavlor

Quote:
Note PowerPC was still alive and under development back in 2001 when current OS4 project started.

It wasn't just alive; it was thriving! It was firmly established in the embedded market, was rising in the server market, and in the late 2000's it even took over the gaming console market: all three of the PS3, Xbox 360, and Wii consoles ran some sort of PowerPC.

Amigas were already running PowerPC accelerators in the late 90s, perhaps because Amiga Technologies (1995 edition) had aimed for a next-generation PowerPC machine. So inertia helped.

The only place PowerPC didn't make significant inroads at the time was the desktop market -- but even in 2001, Apple had just resurrected with a series of nice PowerPC devices.

It was also an inherently superior technology in many respects, just as 680x0 was superior to the chips Intel was putting out in the 80s. But Windows was available only in x86 chips, and everyone had to have Windows for whatever reason. Intel had the engineering wherewithal to ramp up the clock speed, and the marketing wherewithal to convince people that clock speed is all that matters. For the same reason, AMD piggybacked its rise on Intel compatibility: you could pay less than Intel, and still run Windows.

_________________

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Overflow 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 17:18:28
#43 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1626
From: Norway

@pavlor

How many times am I supposed to pay for AOS3.x before I should feel honest about supporting the community? 10? (Im quite close to that btw). Even tho its not been upgraded for a long time.
There are some chatter on EAB about possible updates on the horizon, and IF its more than fluff, I can guarrantee I will pay for it.

OR programs/games etc.

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Hypex 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 18:16:22
#44 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9772
From: Greensborough, Australia

@wawa

Quote:
genuine amiga has a better usb stack than os4 for years, poseidon vs syrion, not sure whats a gain here porting os4 version to m68k.


Sirion comes from 68K. It came with the Thylacine card IIRC. If the core has been updated it should only need back porting.

Which is as likely as Picasso96 being backported to where it all began. I also read no one knows what happened to Picasso96 or the developers but some how the OS4 team has the source for it.

Not everything in Amiga land makes sense.

Last edited by Hypex on 23-Aug-2017 at 05:24 PM.

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WOSPUPOS4 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 18:21:29
#45 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Feb-2006
Posts: 220
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Ehm http://picasso96.tabt.de

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wawa 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 19:41:08
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
Nice dreams, nothing more...


i dont hold my breath. to be honest i doint care, still more likely that what os4 users are susally hoping for and dreaming of.

Quote:
OS4 has at least few developers and users willing to pay for software. Compare this to people looking for excuses to not pay even for the OS and download pirated copy instead.


os4 users are paying for what they think results in their favourite os and hardware support, amiga and vampire users pay for what they think is fun. i suppose the latter is more satisfying in long term.

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wawa 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 19:47:53
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Quote:
Sirion comes from 68K. It came with the Thylacine card IIRC. If the core has been updated it should only need back porting.


but its been inbferior and has been therefore abandoned on 68k. we have good 68k usb stack, which even is open source. you can keep your sirion.

Quote:
Which is as likely as Picaso96 being backported to where it all began.


it would probably be best under current circumstanbces if p96 was substituted by an open solution. but lets see, what jens does with it. i dont hold my breath, again.

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pavlor 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 20:03:03
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9094
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:
vampire users pay for what they think is fun.


So there is not much fun with the Vampire?

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wawa 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 22-Aug-2017 22:18:11
#49 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
So there is not much fun with the Vampire?


oh, i was not aware vampires are for free.. but then even better. i know other stuff which is fun and free of charge.

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ferrels 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 23-Aug-2017 0:15:57
#50 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 825
From: Arizona

@WOSPUPOS4

Quote:

@Hypex Ehm http://picasso96.tabt.de




And this went absolutely nowhere. Jens already announced over at EAB that Hyperion is unable to provide what he needs to move forward with his plans. He didn't specify what he needed or what his plans actually were, but he made it clear that there would be no press release and nothing forthcoming from this deal between him and Hyperion.

Here's what he had to say over at A1K:
A1K

I don't think we'll see much coming from his acquisition of P96, at least not in the near future. It's already been 8 months at this point.

Last edited by ferrels on 23-Aug-2017 at 12:25 AM.
Last edited by ferrels on 23-Aug-2017 at 12:20 AM.
Last edited by ferrels on 23-Aug-2017 at 12:17 AM.

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Hypex 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 23-Aug-2017 17:27:52
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9772
From: Greensborough, Australia

@WOSPUPOS4

So they did disappear. But then. If P96 was in hiatus how was the OS4 team updating the code?

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Hypex 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 23-Aug-2017 17:34:32
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9772
From: Greensborough, Australia

@wawa

Quote:
but its been inferior and has been therefore abandoned on 68k.


I never used it much on 68K. Not on my own Amigas. I don't know how it ended up in OS4. But I come across more talk of it being so buggy and how it should be replaced. Than talk of finding the problems and fixing them. It's too easy to give up when there is a problem and walk away instead of dealing with the issues and repairing what needs to be restored. However it seems at this point, if Sirion still has deep issues, then either replacement or repair would be unlikely.

Quote:
we have good 68k usb stack, which even is open source. you can keep your sirion.


LOL.

Is it proper open source now? I recall there was an issue with Spider cards. Where the open version wasn't working.

I have used Poseidon and Trident GUI and although it its reportedly more stable I can't say it's easier to use. I've tried to set up a Spider card and just gave up getting it to work. Fiddling with this and that and doing rescan. Also I recently tried to setup a printer with it and found basic info was missing on the subject in the docs I read. Then stumbled upon something on the net about a hidden device. Perhaps I'm used to OS4 and the USB device drivers being viewable files and not hidden devices. But I can't let Poseidon get off that easy.

Last edited by Hypex on 23-Aug-2017 at 05:43 PM.

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wawa 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 23-Aug-2017 20:19:57
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Quote:
It's too easy to give up when there is a problem and walk away instead of dealing with the issues and repairing what needs to be restored.


i have never used sirion in first place so i didnt "walk away". and im not likely to begin using it now.

Quote:
Is it proper open source now?


you can browse aros source for poseidon for instance. its maintained. and ive been told, by someone who tested it, that it works with rapid road for example.

Quote:
I recall there was an issue with Spider cards.


i dont know. the problems may date to licensing (?) disagreements between the original autor and elbox. i never had spider so i cannot verify. poseidon worked with my deneb flawlessly, after some dma buster (zorro3?) issue has been fixed (which i have taken part in testing).

Quote:
Also I recently tried to setup a printer


i have never tried to use an usb printer with an amiga i must admit. to be honest i hardly ever tried to use any printer with an amiga. but for basic things, you really need, like input and mass storage poseidon was pretty straight forward and dependable. at times i used usb thumbs as my bootable system drives.

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Hypex 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 24-Aug-2017 16:50:59
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9772
From: Greensborough, Australia

@wawa

Quote:
i dont know. the problems may date to licensing (?) disagreements between the original autor and elbox. i never had spider so i cannot verify. poseidon worked with my deneb flawlessly, after some dma buster (zorro3?) issue has been fixed (which i have taken part in testing).


Could be something like that. It has the custom ROM. Or modified. Suppose it should work with a generic USB2 card now. Or an NEC card which the Spider was based on. Heard lots of talk people just wanted a cheap PC card to work. Since a cheap graphic card worked wihout buying a special Amiga version. And the point of an Mediator was to have expensive Amiga PCI slots in order to plug cheap PC cards in.

Deneb is one of the best USB cards for the Amiga, if not the best. IIRC, it has the stack on ROM and can boot off USB. Until OS4 got USB2 support any Amiga with a Deneb crapped over OS4 in USB speed.

Quote:
i have never tried to use an usb printer with an amiga i must admit. to be honest i hardly ever tried to use any printer with an amiga.


I've used printers with every Commodore I've owned. On OS4 there are docs and a usbprinter.device is easily findable. With Poseidon I didn't notice any special mention for printers and found their printer transport driver is called usbparallel.device which isn't so obvious.

Last edited by Hypex on 25-Aug-2017 at 04:43 PM.

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wawa 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 24-Aug-2017 17:34:06
#55 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Quote:
Suppose it should work with a generic USB2 card now. Or an NEC card which the Spider was based on. Heard lots of talk people just wanted a cheap PC card to work.


afair spider was a generic pci card with a modified id, if some hack was non working it isnt poseidon responsible for. to learn more browse eab on this specific subject.

Quote:
Deneb is one of the best USB cards for the Amiga, if not the best. IIRC, it has the stack on ROM and can boot off USB. Until OS4 got USB2 support any Amiga with a Deneb crapped over OS4 in USB speed.


deneb works reliable in dma mode, this wont work with os4 on amiga probably ever. has been a bit of research, btw. deneb has also bootable flash you can put rom modules into. may come very handy, but wont work with os4 as well. therefore os4 solutions are of no value in this field.

what concerns printers, well i could test a bit around, but its simply out of my scope, im busy enogh to contribute to other amiga things to bother.

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Hypex 
Re: APOLLO-CORE Release GOLD 2.7 Coming Soon
Posted on 25-Aug-2017 17:01:03
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9772
From: Greensborough, Australia

@wawa

Quote:
afair spider was a generic pci card with a modified id, if some hack was non working it isnt poseidon responsible for.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell. But I don't think a hack prevented it from working, I think it was people that plugged in USB2 cards with the exact chipset as the Spider, but they didn't work. Since the ID didn't match. Cheap dongle. So you could say the Spider was slightly hacked and the USB driver wouldn't work with anything generic. Or with anything using the same NEC chipset.

Quote:
deneb works reliable in dma mode, this wont work with os4 on amiga probably ever.


Well I am comparing an Amiga to an AmigaOne. So on my XE USB2 DMA transfer do work. Once I plugged in a USB2 NEC card.

Quote:
what concerns printers, well i could test a bit around, but its simply out of my scope, im busy enogh to contribute to other amiga things to bother.


The problem with connecting any printer to the Amiga is printer drivers. It became a problem early this century. I wrote an article for my Amiga club magzine about 15 years ago. I started an FAQ where I answered questions about Amiga topics. IIRC the first one was if there would be better printer support in OS4 once it was released. I answered that no there wouldn't. Well not at first. I didn't know how accurate that prediction was. There has been talk of it a few times but so far OS4 still has the same old drivers. And apart from lacking in transport layers (like DOT4) it still lacks support to attach a USB printer. It should be automatic but it works off the old parallel principle where you tell it what device to use. What's a file for a programmer got to do with a user I ask?

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