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      /  Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
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OlafS25 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 1-Jan-2018 15:49:59
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5194
From: Unknown

@AmigaMac

in theory you would need common development tools and standardized APIs. Chances for that are not very big propably

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klx300r 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 1-Jan-2018 16:03:56
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3327
From: Toronto, Canada

100% agree with Thor and Olsen....spend your money helping the Amiga developers/ users NOT on vulture lawyers

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zzd10h 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 1-Jan-2018 16:24:52
#43 ]
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Joined: 21-May-2012
Posts: 1050
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

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Hans 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 1-Jan-2018 22:26:58
#44 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4868
From: New Zealand

@fishy_fis

Quote:

fishy_fis wrote:
...This goes completely in the face of AmigaOS, which is all about exclusivity, locking into expensive hardware and control...

Come on, do you honestly think that any of those are AmigaOS design goals?

Quote:
These sorts of cries that we need co-operation are usually from people who aren't aware that we already have about as much inter-camp collaboration as is reasonably possible.

I'd also like to see more cooperation than currently exists. All of the OSes have talented developers, and we'd all benefit if we shared more talent and resources.

However, I have no idea how to make that happen. Plans to create a common set of development tools (via the ADTools project) were dropped years ago, and APIs continue to slowly diverge.

Hans

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A1200 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 0:06:36
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-May-2003
Posts: 2932
From: Westhall, UK

Ben Hermans always likes a good legal scrap, gives him something to do with his night school law degree.

Quote:
[Louis Tully is the Ghostbusters' defense lawyer]

Louis Tully: I think you guys are making a big mistake. I do mostly tax law and probate stuff occasionally. I got my law degree at night school.

Ray: Well, that's fine, Louis. We got arrested at night.



As for who owns what. For me Amiga died with Commodore International in April 1994. Had David Pleasance and co from Commodore UK secured it they may have revived it but as it was it was broken up and sold off more times to people who understood little about it. Now for me the only people who have usefulness are people who keep the platform alive by producing ways to keep the feeling of Amiga going by rejuvenating classic hardware and software or trying out would have been successors to Amiga after OS3.1.... All interesting but no way a business to fight over - we could be talking 5 thousand people over all flavours of Amiga AT MOST - likely several thousand less if you deduct anyone who wouldn't consider actually paying for something!

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fishy_fis 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 3:38:05
#46 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1799
From: Australia

@Hans

Quote:
Come on, do you honestly think that any of those are AmigaOS design goals?


Absolutely. Every single decision seems to pushing in that direction.

The only other possibility I see, and I'd rather this be wrong, is blatant stupidity (which is partially evident as it stands).

Even the hardware is bafling.

Two hours into looking into it I was able to get a custom ppc mobo for less than half of what is being charged. And that's for a single board.
There's plenty of places around that specialize in these things.

So yes, it seems pretty evident there's restrictive control going on.
If there was interest in the platform beyond wanting to fool themselves theyre a blimp in the history of the Amiga, then research would have been done into making the system accessible.
As it stands there's efforts being made to ensure only the most hardcore blind followers will access the system so as to ensure there's a bias being spread.
Apart from emulation of course, but then you can defend with, "oh, but it's better native, emulation is crippled".

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Hans 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 8:15:13
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4868
From: New Zealand

@fishy_fis

Quote:

fishy_fis wrote:
@Hans

Quote:
Come on, do you honestly think that any of those are AmigaOS design goals?


Absolutely. Every single decision seems to pushing in that direction.

Okay, if that's what you think. Sounds like confirmation bias to me.

Quote:
Two hours into looking into it I was able to get a custom ppc mobo for less than half of what is being charged. And that's for a single board.
There's plenty of places around that specialize in these things.

Really? Where?

Hans

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KimmoK 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 8:38:01
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5091
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

+1

"Open Letter to Cloanto Italy SRL Udine,
and Hyperion Entertainment CVBA, Brussels
...
It is understood that both of you want to protect your assets and secure your corresponding business models, but at what cost?
...
The reason why your companies are able to do Amiga-business is due to us, the users, the fans, the software and hardware developers and Amiga experts - the few who are still around and who keep driving the system, by buying your products, by developing software and hardware in our own spare time, by providing support in our spare time, and by keeping the community alive.

Your products, copyrights and trademarks would be void if it were not for the countless people who support a product which, from a purely technical perspective, has long lost its shine and appeal."


...
We need a bounty to buy them all -> one NG branch ... with a legacy sandbox that can be compiled to run natively on 68k.

Last edited by KimmoK on 02-Jan-2018 at 11:40 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 02-Jan-2018 at 11:39 AM.

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petrol 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 9:42:02
#49 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Jun-2004
Posts: 375
From: France

Hi,

I would have preferred to read an announce about some great news for the new year instead of that another crap legal dispute!
I really hope that, for the sake of our little community, they'll find out an agreement quickly!

Petrol.

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davidf215 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 10:53:04
#50 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2010
Posts: 42
From: Texas

Seriously? Here we go again.

I would suggest to give the attendees at the upcoming Amiga meeting in Ireland a voting ballot. On the ballot is “Hyperion” and “Cloanto.” Whoever has the most votes wins. Alternatively, have the members of both companies compete in a game of Quake; the winning team out of 3 matches is victor.

Happy 2018 to the Amiga community. Simply couldn’t go another year without a lawsuit.

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Simon 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 13:09:23
#51 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 986
From: Antwerp / Belgium

I am done buying Cloanto things. The money seems to be fuel for lawsuits anyway.

No matter how you turn it ... there is only one reason Cloanto goes for the Commodore / Amiga thing that is to get control over all the rest out there and pull money out of their pockets.

As far as I could tell Hyperion was/is minding their own business trying to keep their head above the water until Cloanto started to do whatever this is supposed to be. What can they do ? Just let Cloanto get away with what they had to fight for against AmigaINC ? Nobody would do that.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 13:36:02
#52 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1269
From: CRO

@Simon

Quote:
Just let Cloanto get away with what they had to fight for against AmigaINC


With all due respect, Hyperion pretty much ran Amiga Inc to the ground(with a lot of help from Amiga Inc, Bill & co), they got paid then failed to deliver in timely fashion. The settlement is a result of Amiga Inc running out of money, not of any justice to either Hyperion or A Inc.
Besides, Hyperion do not really own anything, they had/have royalty free licenses to certain names and brands, zero ownership. They do not really own OS4 either, as a lot of it is also licensed from developers.

I'm not taking any sides, just popcorn :)

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Simon 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 14:08:26
#53 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 986
From: Antwerp / Belgium

@WolfToTheMoon

Hyperion ran AmigaInc in the ground ... that's a new one.

I am pretty sure AmigaINC ran itself in the ground... ran in the ground by a former truckdriver as a CEO. Not saying Hyperion was without faults 15 years ago but I think Bill McEwen was already talking and doing shit before anything was signed regarding OS4.

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tlosm 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 14:17:34
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2527
From: Amiga land

My thinking is ...
i wanna see less low, less crap and more facts . 8)

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Birbo 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 14:32:07
#55 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Apr-2007
Posts: 521
From: Zurich, Switzerland

Maaaaaaaan! C'mon guys!

Sit together and make business together!

Amiga Forever & Amiga OS 4 -> you could sell bundles. Join forces!

C'mon. That's so sad.

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Kronos 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 14:38:05
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2120
From: Unknown

@Simon

Quote:


As far as I could tell Hyperion was/is minding their own business


Were they?

Common believe seems to be that Cloanto has an license (maybe even ownership) of AmigaOS1-3.0 (or maybe 3.1) binaries.

Didn't stop Hyperion from including UAE+ROMs in 4.1 or licensing them to INDIVIDUAL.


Who actually got which rights from which party and wether those parties ever had them in the 1st place is something even a "clueless german judge"(TM) couldn't determine

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 14:41:09
#57 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1269
From: CRO

@Simon

Quote:
Hyperion ran AmigaInc in the ground ... that's a new one.


I suggest you read the legal documents concerning the 2007-2009 case . Amiga Inc paid Hyperion money, several tens of thousands of dollars, to deliver OS4 and once even because they were nearing bankruptcy. I'm not defending Amiga Inc, there's very little to defend there, but the fact is they did pay Hyperion for a service that was done poorly, out of all timeframes and in the end, Hyperion even disregarded Amiga Incs demands for which platforms OS4 would be ported which started the legal dispute when Amiga Inc wanted the source code of the OS4 for which they did pay as contracted.

Quote:
Not saying Hyperion was without faults 15 years ago but I think Bill McEwen was already talking and doing shit before anything was signed regarding OS4.


Hyperion/Hermans ended up doing far greater damage to Amiga/OS4 then McEwen ever did. IMHO, of course.

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Signal 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 14:42:31
#58 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 618
From: USA

@
As I recall Ainc contracted Hyperion to develop ppc OS4 from the 3.9 sources then did not deliver those sources because they did not control them. So Hyperion had to write new code first to mimic 3.5 then have that work as 3.9 then move it to ppc. And so started the first lawsuit. Ainc demanding a finished product while, perhaps unknowingly at first, not providing their portion of the promised goods.

Protect what they have been fighting for and working on? No, just lay down and get stepped on.



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number6 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 15:10:40
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10172
From: In the village

@Kronos

A few of my favorites about 1.3:

Jens Schoenfeld from 2007

Bill McEwen from the *cough* Q&A (2009):
Quote:
8) Why couldn't you licence Individual Computers Amiga 500 clone Projetc A? ( It seems like a product that could generate a lot of revenue. Just look at the success of the C64 DTV)

I am not familiar with this company or project. I would need to speak with someone there;


Followed by:
1st response from Jens

2nd response from Jens

I'm sure you recall that Bill never supplied said proof of ownership, according to Jens.

Oops. Almost forgot my favorite:
Fleecy

#6

Last edited by number6 on 02-Jan-2018 at 03:33 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 02-Jan-2018 at 03:32 PM.

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fishy_fis 
Re: Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers
Posted on 2-Jan-2018 15:13:40
#60 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1799
From: Australia

@kas1e

Yep, I agree.
Very much a "set the house alight while we're still inside" thing going on.

Congratulations to all those fighting over scraps.
You've successfully managed to burn yourselves and the vast majority of those that had an interest still to death.

But clearly you care for nothing other than big dick contests (a contest it appears all involved will lose if their actions are an indication).

So, who here has any legal knowledge? Although loathe to bring law into it I'd be interested to hear how and if its possible to remove an asset of public interest from people who do nothing but show disdain to their customers.

Failing that, given some recent luck, I've become a bit of a gentleman of leisure.
I have both the time and money to cause some genuine problems for everyone involved.
Would anyone else care to join me in a "frustrate them and/or send them broke" campaign?
We really need to be rid of these nuisances once and for all.
This is a legitimate question. Just trying to work out the best way to proceed.

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