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PosterThread
Niolator 
The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 11:38:58
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-May-2003
Posts: 1392
From: Unknown

My Internet bank was recently updated which means that certain parts of the homepage does no longer work with Odyssey. I guess it was just a matter of time before this happened as Odyssey is no longer being updated. So how is it looking on the web browser front for AmigaOS 4.x? Timberwolf seems stone dead and Odyssey is very close to that status too. Is Netsurf 4 going to be a huge improvement over Netsurf 3.x? That is what is needed to bring Netsurf past even Odyssey in functionality. IBrowse 2.5 is obviously under development but it seems like the new version is moving from where mainstream browsers were 1997 to where they were 1998.

Does A-Eon have anything up their sleeves? I really hope so because to me it seems as AmigaOS is dying with more and more programs becoming obsolete due to lack of updates.


edit: typos

Last edited by Niolator on 23-Jan-2018 at 11:48 AM.
Last edited by Niolator on 23-Jan-2018 at 11:42 AM.
Last edited by Niolator on 23-Jan-2018 at 11:40 AM.

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kas1e 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 11:57:20
#2 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3221
From: Russia

@Niolator

If you have a lot of time, good skills in programming, motivation and wish to learn: join webkit party and be one who will add big-endian related fixes to their everydays commits :)

Last edited by kas1e on 23-Jan-2018 at 11:57 AM.

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Chris_Y 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 12:24:25
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3115
From: Beds, UK

@Niolator

Quote:

Niolator wrote:
Is Netsurf 4 going to be a huge improvement over Netsurf 3.x? That is what is needed to bring Netsurf past even Odyssey in functionality.


In theory, yes. However that is going to take a long time and the project suffers the same as a lot of other open source projects - lack of time and resources.

If anybody wants to help out it will be welcomed. http://www.netsurf-browser.org/developers/

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Niolator 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 12:48:15
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-May-2003
Posts: 1392
From: Unknown

@kas1e & Chris_Y

It seems as it is as bad as I feared. I guess that a bounty would do little difference if it is time that is needed. I wonder how many that are still left in the Amiga communty that has the skill to port a modern browser. We would probably need a team of those.

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BigD 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 12:59:12
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4279
From: UK

@Niolator

Looks like we're nearing the point of having to boot into Linux to use a modern browser Sad but in the Mac world I like my browsers to look like Firefox 2 and the new build stops all the old themes working! Browser developers suck generally. Looks like I'm stuck on Firefox 56 until the theme developers catch up

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AdvancedFollower 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 13:03:43
#6 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Aug-2017
Posts: 58
From: Sweden

The web browser is such a central part of modern computing, but I really can't think of a good solution. The web is a moving target, so even if an updated browser comes out today, it will be outdated and incompatible again in a year.

What is really needed is a continuously updated browser based on one of the open web rendering engines, but who's going to maintain that? It would be nearly a full time job.

Last edited by AdvancedFollower on 24-Jan-2018 at 10:37 AM.

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kas1e 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 13:35:57
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3221
From: Russia

@Niolator

Its problem of not amigaos, but because of ppc cpu. It is out from real world, and its only matter of time when no any real big project will support big endian cpus. I mea not only PPC excatly, but any big-endian ones. Big players choice little-endian ones, and we can do nothing about if we want to get things from real world.

Of course, if only there will be no new big-endian cpus in any computer which will popular again (which is unluckily), so developers will again worry about big-endian cpus.

But until then, we can only see how year by year support of big-endian machines will be less and less everywhere, and amigaos, and morphos (while on ppc), and old macs with ppc, and whatever else, will suck a bit, and loose time to fix endian issues (which, with limited resources again, unlucky in most cases).

And, to answer on next questions: its too late for architecture swtich.

Last edited by kas1e on 23-Jan-2018 at 03:05 PM.

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Signal 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 17:06:48
#8 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 598
From: USA

@
People!

Quit screwing around and bitching. Buy a Raspberry Pi and VNC it to your Amiga(?) and use the browsers available to that 'platform'.

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daveyw 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 18:50:54
#9 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Mar-2011
Posts: 274
From: New Zealand

@Niolator

Before you completely give up on Odyssey, have you tried experimenting with spoofing as a different client on your bank's site?

I'm also going to throw this out here...

I often use Western Union to send money abroad. On Windows Chrome, it's virtually unuseable. On Firefox, it's completely unuseable. The (Android) app doesn't work very well.

But Odyssey is the only client I have that actually works on their crappy site.

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---------------
AmigaOne X5000 P5020 2Ghz, OS 4.1
AmigaOne XE G4 800mhz, OS 4.1
A1200T 40Mhz 68040, OS 3.9

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Robert 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 19:32:18
#10 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 865
From: Glasgow

@Niolator:

I'm just dipping my toe back into OS4 after a long layoff (posting this from iBrowse 2.4) and this post is sad to see.

I don't have enough skill or time to help much but it would br nice to see things improve on the browser front.

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utri007 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 19:43:31
#11 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Aug-2003
Posts: 925
From: United States of Europe

@Chris_Y

Quote:

In theory, yes. However that is going to take a long time and the project suffers the same as a lot of other open source projects - lack of time and resources.

If anybody wants to help out it will be welcomed. http://www.netsurf-browser.org/developers/



Netsurf could be way to go. It has in active development, but only with handfull coders. If Amiga interested coders would start to contirpute, develobment would speed up.

As a bonus there is no way that Netsurf team would abandon big endian cpus.

Many ways Netsurf would be "future proof" solution.

Last edited by utri007 on 23-Jan-2018 at 07:44 PM.

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outrun1978 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 20:24:06
#12 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 441
From: Unknown

@niolator



Quote:
Before you completely give up on Odyssey, have you tried experimenting with spoofing as a different client on your bank's site?


i second daveyw's comments here about spoofing as different browsers via Odyssey as you can get more mileage out of the browser.

For example. Spoofing as Ipad works well for quite a lot of sites. For playback of videos via Youtube or Daily Motion or others you also benefit from a larger video screen window

I recently got an I-Phone (yes i converted to the Cupertino cult after many years of resistance) but found I could not access I Cloud services using Odyssey or spoofing as Ipad, but have no issues using spoof as Firefox 25

Whilst i have issues with Wordpress in order to write my blog under Odyssey and spoofing as other browsers, I found a good work around by actually using the mobile website m.wordpress.com in order to access the dashboard and other features. For the time being i can continue to do what i do on my X5000. If a website does have a mobile version that is accessible using m.websitename.com then try that and see if that works

Yes things are getting trickier for certain websites, and until we get an updated browser of sorts things will no doubt get worse, but we can still get a lot done on our NG machines and Odyssey is quite quick certainly compared to Firefox 47 which is on the 16.04 Linux Distribution i've installed on to a spare hard disk drive on my X5000.





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Deniil715 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 20:55:30
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4150
From: Sweden

@Niolator

I'm also completely fed up with the obsleteness of Odyssey these days. (Un)fortunately I might be one of very few who supposedly might have the skill, microscopic amount of time, and some motivation to actually be able to pull off the fixes necessary to update Odyssey.

Just need some environmental kickstarting. Get the source, build environment etc. Some pointers to where in the source it stops working etc.

@BigD

"Browser developers suck generally."

Yes they do, especially the fore-front developers who keep on pushing new features, deprecating old ones at a pace the world has never ever seen before anywhere in anything anywhere close to such a global scale thing!!

What if cars became obsolete after 2 years and was technically unable to drive on the roads? What if railways changed the track type every 6 month?? It's completely ridiculous how the browser developers are allowed to proceed on such a global scale!!

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Niolator 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 22:36:11
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-May-2003
Posts: 1392
From: Unknown

@Robert

I don't have the skill either. I probably have more time than most with the skill though, but that doesn't help much.

I will try spoofing but the Internet bank does not complain about the browser being old, like for example Gmail.

Last edited by Niolator on 23-Jan-2018 at 10:36 PM.

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wawa 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 23:09:54
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5916
From: Unknown

@Deniil715

Quote:
Just need some environmental kickstarting. Get the source, build environment etc. Some pointers to where in the source it stops working etc.


i have been looking into compiling odyssey within aros source tree once, didnt came that far admittedly. kalamate did apparently, but he left no sources himself. now there is someone who commited some work to get aros ppc target building again. might be a starting point for fixing big endian if this two succeeded, still very remote.

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ExiE 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 23:13:42
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 447
From: Czech Amiga News

@Niolator

Quote:
I will try spoofing but the Internet bank does not complain about the browser being old, like for example Gmail.


It is not only about old browser. But it is easier to test web app in few mainstream browsers, and check if the used browser is one of them and ignore the others. It does not have to mean that the application require something special only few browsers provide...

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Chris_Y 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 23-Jan-2018 23:20:07
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3115
From: Beds, UK

@utri007

Quote:

utri007 wrote:
Many ways Netsurf would be "future proof" solution.



It will always lag behind the mainstream browsers though, and the pace of development (both sides) is such that it is unlikely to ever catch up.

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Raffaele 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 24-Jan-2018 9:55:41
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1847
From: Naples, Italy

@kas1e

Quote:

kas1e wrote:
@Niolator

If you have a lot of time, good skills in programming, motivation and wish to learn: join webkit party and be one who will add big-endian related fixes to their everydays commits :)


The usual stupid answer that gave the programmers with superiority complex over normal users.

Gee!!!

it was months I really missed the attitude of AmigaOS developers.

Niolator made just a simple legit question man, answer him as a human being, not as a psycho coder...

[EDIT]

At least you gave niolator a good answer in comment nr. 7 of the thread. Thank you for this change of attitude.

Last edited by Raffaele on 24-Jan-2018 at 09:59 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 24-Jan-2018 at 09:56 AM.

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Raffaele 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 24-Jan-2018 10:05:28
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2005
Posts: 1847
From: Naples, Italy

@Chris_Y

Quote:

Chris_Y wrote:
@utri007

Quote:

utri007 wrote:
Many ways Netsurf would be "future proof" solution.



It will always lag behind the mainstream browsers though, and the pace of development (both sides) is such that it is unlikely to ever catch up.


Spoof section of OWB should be made modular.
Anyime a site asks for a new version of a Browser, it should be trivial make just a new spoofing module in order to trick the site.

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kas1e 
Re: The Web browser situation
Posted on 24-Jan-2018 10:12:30
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3221
From: Russia

@Raffaele
Only amiga make it possible, and, you suck, of course.

Should be modular, trivial.. Did you code a shit ever, to say what is trivial and what is not ? You, sucker who think that he can call everyone stupid.

Last edited by kas1e on 24-Jan-2018 at 10:14 AM.

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