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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Hyperion development and financing discussion
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PosterThread
Zylesea 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 30-Jan-2018 22:22:00
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG


96 EUR is to much as OS4 user's pockets are emptied by überexpensive hardware already...

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Tuxedo 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 30-Jan-2018 22:35:35
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2341
From: Perugia, ITALY

@number6

well...
But what they offer for 96 €/year?

We already have ENancher that cost much than OS itslef for some enanched apps and a FOUNDAMENTAL part like video drivers tha OS dont give to users...so:

- if they will integrate all Enancher(maybe impossible since that was A-Eon)
- At least Video drivers since that was impossible to use OS without them
- Gives to users some nice feature every update and not only some cometic/tiny changes, i.e. demostrates that witj our money they do something...

Unfortunately last times I dont see much on AmigaOS development, for sure x5000 and Tabor integration was an heavy task fopr such a small team, but we "old" users dont cares much about since:

- maybe we dont need that new hw supported cause its too slow/expensive regarding our current harsware or similar answer...

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 0:19:10
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Trixie

Quote:
possibly meant to be publicly released to celebrate Hyperion's next settlement agreement in 2025.


on aros bug fixed yesteday in code is fixed in todays nightly. ;)

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Tomppeli 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 0:44:18
#24 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1652
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

I agree with mritter0 and Trixie, not releasing important but small bug fixes for this long is out of question. Also if it stops 3rd party devs releasing their software is out of question too !

Also making OS updates every day is not good either.

Last edited by Tomppeli on 31-Jan-2018 at 12:45 AM.

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ne_one 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 4:20:43
#25 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 905
From: Unknown

@g01df1sh

Quote:

g01df1sh wrote:

at the current rate 68k has more chance of growing user base than ppc does.


At the current rate of development, Microsoft Bob is looking like a promising alternative.

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cgutjahr 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 6:04:36
#26 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@number6

Costel never mentions a subscription model, that's a misinterpretation.

He basically says that he'd never have bothered with "that Update X nonsense", but simply released a new AmigaOS version (4.2, 4.3...) every year and charged a hundred euros for it - i.e. no more free updates. And if he gets his will, that's how he would proceed from here on. He specifically mentions he'd get "4.2" out the door ASAP, no matter what features are included/not included ("yes, _without_ SMP").

Because - and that seems to be his main point, given he's very vague about anything that might or might not happen in the future - "this whole pay-once-and-then-get-free-updates-for-ages-idiocy" (that's a literal quote) is what did "immense damage" to AmigaOS that will be "very hard to fix".

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kas1e 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 7:25:02
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3549
From: Russia

@trixie, mritter
Policy of not worry about of releasing small fixes which is done years ago but waiting for updates (with new bugs, which will be fixed right away, but waiting another few eyars) was always big problem of hyperion.

Lately, when update1 for fe was released, and it was found that by mistake there was put an older version of some component, and i asked few times to make quickfix, i was told to not worry about not my business, so i give up in try to convince about :)

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Trixie 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 7:44:32
#28 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2089
From: Czech Republic

@cgutjahr

Quote:
"this whole pay-once-and-then-get-free-updates-for-ages-idiocy" (that's a literal quote) is what did "immense damage" to AmigaOS

I agree, and the irony of it is that we really didn't have to arrive at such a situation, if only Hyperion had a business plan, a clear roadmap, and released regular, reasonably-priced paid updates. I don't think users would complain about such a model if they saw things are getting done and the OS is moving forward.

I can understand why Hyperion stopped delivering updates via AmiUpdate, because that is an embodiment of delivering "free updates for ages" (as Costel put it). What I don't understand is why they didn't replace it with an acceptable paid policy. Complaining about users reqesting free updates while, at the same time, offering nothing we can buy suggests that Hyperion can't see beyond the end of their noses.

Myself, I buy what I can to support the OS4 developer microclimate. Heck, I even buy or donate to software I don't use and games I don't play. So be my guest and charge for OS updates, dear Hyperion. Just make up your mind about how you want to do your business.

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Amigo1 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 8:06:03
#29 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1582
From: the Clouds

I agree with mritter0 and Trixie.

And besides that, I think there should be more communication between A-EON/Enhancer Package and Hyperion.

Situations like the one regarding the graphics system/Warp 3D Nova should just not happen in a tiny market like this.

Ignoring the fact that the developers are spread between the 3 "camps", at least all the people (I am mainly thinking deveopers and companies) in the same "camp" should pull the rope in the same direction..

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Trixie 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 8:54:26
#30 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2089
From: Czech Republic

@Amigo1

Quote:
besides that, I think there should be more communication between A-EON/Enhancer Package and Hyperion. Situations like the one regarding the graphics system/Warp 3D Nova should just not happen in a tiny market like this.

To remedy the situation, Hyperion would first have to admit that themselves they are no longer able to deliver crucial OS developments in a reasonable timeframe. Then they would have to either buy what A-EON has paid for (RadeonHD drivers, Warp3D Nova), or adopt these features in return for some control over AmigaOS. I can't imagine that A-EON never approached Hyperion with such a deal (considering they have stocks full of boards still lacking full OS support, so Hyperion's sluggishness hurts their business badly).

That such a deal is currently not on the table is witnessed by the fact that instead of letting in a serious sponsoring partner, Hyperion are now considering the yearly upgrade paid policy. They have to get the money from somewhere (even more so with a new litigation in sight).

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AdvancedFollower 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 9:25:57
#31 ]
Member
Joined: 29-Aug-2017
Posts: 79
From: Sweden

I don't think free updates are "idiocy". My Linux boxes keep getting updated for free, year after year, and I paid €0 for the OS. Heck, even Windows is being updated for free now. The "idiocy" is that Hyperion do not have a sustainable business model.

Clearly, developers need to be paid if development is ever going to happen at a reasonable pace. Even with Linux, many big corporations sponsor development of core components like the kernel, major DE's and applications. Linux developers do NOT work for free.

However I don't see how AmigaOS could attract commercial sponsors, apart from A-Eon. A-Eon should see the benefit of more speedy OS development. So far, the networking and sound driver+FPU emulation for the Tabor have been in development for well over 2 years, delaying the launch of the hardware. If they have the money to fund hardware development, they should also fund OS development, because a computer without an OS is pretty useless.

Other than that, fleecing users for updates is of course an option, but I don't think anyone would be willing to pay more than €30 - 50 a year. Certainly if they paid €100 every year, people would demand vast improvements with each new version, like SMP, process isolation etc.

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kas1e 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 10:11:40
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3549
From: Russia

@trixie
Quote:

To remedy the situation, Hyperion would first have to admit that themselves they are no longer able to deliver crucial OS developments in a reasonable timeframe


How thats, and skip ego ?:)

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Birbo 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 11:04:57
#33 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Apr-2007
Posts: 594
From: Zurich, Switzerland

Hyperion, what? Who?

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 11:26:18
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Trixie

Quote:
I agree, and the irony of it is that we really didn't have to arrive at such a situation, if only Hyperion had a business plan, a clear roadmap, and released regular, reasonably-priced paid updates. I don't think users would complain about such a model if they saw things are getting done and the OS is moving forward.


roadmap aside, for (reasonable) users to engage in subscribing schemes to (further) support the system, there first of all would have to be transparency, something that the company in question was never able or willing to deliver. and also guarantees about that a steady progress really is going to take place (unlikely), which considering track of record of announcements about announcements that usually never materialize is rather questionable.

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ExiE 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 12:19:02
#35 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 450
From: Czech Amiga News

@AdvancedFollower

Quote:
However I don't see how AmigaOS could attract commercial sponsors, apart from A-Eon. A-Eon should see the benefit of more speedy OS development. So far, the networking and sound driver+FPU emulation for the Tabor have been in development for well over 2 years, delaying the launch of the hardware. If they have the money to fund hardware development, they should also fund OS development, because a computer without an OS is pretty useless.


For me it is hard to believe that the main reason for (very) slow development of OS4 for Tabor is money.
I do believer that Trevor would pay for it immediately to get the boards ready to market ASAP. I would suspect it is manpower, skilled developers or some other currently unknown reason on Hyperion's side but not money.

(To be absolutely clear I am talking only about Tabor support, not development of next version of OS4 in general)

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ilbarbax 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 12:30:50
#36 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2010
Posts: 184
From: Italy

What I really do not understand is why Hyperion is keeping the new stuffs in testing phase so long. I joined Pianeta Amiga 2010 and in that show was told about the availability of the new shell. We got it with the 4.1 update 6 if I well remember, anyway at least 5 years later.
This attitude seems to be the rule as in different posts here was mentioned about small fixes available since long time and not yet released.

I would be open to pay (a right fee) for a consistent and constant yearly update

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Signal 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 13:11:45
#37 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 664
From: USA

@kas1e

Quote:

kas1e wrote:
Lately, when update1 for fe was released, and it was found that by mistake there was put an older version of some component, and i asked few times to make quickfix, i was told to not worry about not my business, so i give up in try to convince about :)


What a coincidence.

It was about a month after update 1 when I could not get an answer as to why CodeBench, that was working fine, now produced bug free code that would not run on the X1000. That X1000 went into the closet with other spare computers and parts.

IF 4.2 ever hits the market.................well, we will see.

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Hypex 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 14:07:50
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Signal

Doesn't CodeBench just use GCC from the SDK? Unless you customise it.

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cgutjahr 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 14:14:05
#39 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@Trixie

Quote:

What I don't understand is why they didn't replace it with an acceptable paid policy.

They replaced it with FE and then went bankrupt - hard to implement any kind of policy when the situation is that bad...

Quote:

I can understand why Hyperion stopped delivering updates via AmiUpdate

I think that was Solie reacting to the fact that both the original development and betatesting teams had broken up in the years leading up to his new release strategy.

Hard to do proper releases every 12 months if you're short on manpower.

Quote:

Myself, I buy what I can to support the OS4 developer microclimate.

Please don't. Hyperion should not get a single cent from anyone - until they either fixed the mess they created and delivered what they've already been paid for (4.2 including SMP, drivers for Tabor, a stable and well performing OS on X5000) or at the very least finally come clean and give a honest status report about their legal and financial problems and how they intend to solve them.

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Trixie 
Re: Hyperion reconsidering the subscription model for development
Posted on 31-Jan-2018 14:32:06
#40 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2089
From: Czech Republic

@cgutjahr

Quote:
Please don't. Hyperion should not get a single cent from anyone

By "OS4 developer microclimate" I meant developers who create software for OS4, not Hyperion. On second reading I can see that the sentence might be a bit ambiguous.

For the record, in the past three months I have supported:
- A-EON (Enhancer Software V2)
- Airsoft Software (Hollywood 7)
- Mark Ritter (Workbench Explorer)
- AmigaTec (Amiga Racer)
- Bjorn Lynne ("Revive" CD; not software but this re-recording of one of my favourite Amiga composers' classic tracks is really cool)

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