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      /  Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
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PosterThread
remotenemesis 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 21-Jun-2018 14:38:21
#121 ]
Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2018
Posts: 93
From: SF Bay Area, California

@Amigo1

I'd like that Amiga DNA to continue too but we'll need to make some breaking changes to fully support modern features. This is healthy IMHO. Windows and macOS have done this continuously over the years. Message ports need to stop sharing memory which means changes to Intuition. IO caching. Full memory protection. Multi-core.

Note I said UNIX not Linux because I'm wondering about something like Dragonfly BSD as a modern kernel with an Amiga userland API. Or maybe a micro-kernel?

Is there anything to take from BeOS?

Commodore were considering making a major break with the past at the R&D stage at least.

This is a Ship of Theseus problem.


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Signal 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 21-Jun-2018 15:46:17
#122 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 661
From: USA

@remotenemesis

Quote:

This is a Ship of Theseus problem.


Fundamentally

Think the Funda part can be done, the mentally part........ not so easy.

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Turrican3 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 25-Jun-2018 14:19:24
#123 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 326
From: Italy

@remotenemesis

Quote:
I certainly won't criticize the choice to move to PPC all those years ago. I think it was a good call to preserve Amiga heritage and project onto (at the time) a more modern platform.

Hmm not sure I understand this... Amiga transitioning to PPC wasn't Trevor's choice; if anything, he might have pushed for something different, but as I said before I haven't been following closely the Amiga scene for a long, long time so I could totally be wrong on this. :-\

Quote:
What would it take to assemble an modern "Hombre"? The graphics/sounds hardware is commodity. Intel/AMD motherboards are commodity. ARM motherboards are available. Vampire on a card for legacy emulation?

I'd be tempted to say that a modern "Hombre" is basically any current home console (really can't tell what it would have happened, had the actual Hombre came to the market; maybe C= would have been able to keep a niche market, or maybe they would have gone bankrupt anyway sooner or later)

Having said that, my opinion is that basically 99.9% of the worthwhile Amiga software should be able to run just fune under software emulation, so an hypotetical "nextgen Amiga" might not need any Vampire-like solution. They should, instead, concentrate on a brand new, modern architecture without worrying too much about backwards compatibility... it would need to be an Amiga in spirit and functionalities, not in ancient software that most of the time is obsolete to say the least.

Yeah yeah, I know this would take LOTS of money.

PS: maybe the user that said the only real answer is something that already exists, i.e. AROS, is right... I should give it a try sooner or later.

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BigD 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 25-Jun-2018 16:29:41
#124 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5032
From: UK

@Turrican3

If you're using a PC why use AROS? I still can't see that anyone is going to want to use AROS other than a curiosity. If I switch on an Amiga I expect to use Workbench / AmigaOS. If I switch on my Mac I'll be using macOS or Windows through Bootcamp because those are the OSes that'll get the most out of the machine. I'll get the Amiga feeling by using Grafx2 but beyond that WHY? I use an Atari ST emulator to play one game : Blue War III. Beyond that I can't be bothered. Emulation will not lead to an Amiga revival, it's Tabor hardware / Raspberry Pi or a custom ARM machine with an AmigaOS port, a custom Intel machine with an OS port or it's bust IMHO. And no, I don't think an Open Source version of AmigaOS would help either other than in the eventuality that Hyperion goes bankrupt (again).

Last edited by BigD on 25-Jun-2018 at 05:37 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 25-Jun-2018 16:37:02
#125 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5032
From: UK

@Thread

To be honest anything that we used to do on our Amigas can now be done on a games console or smart phone. There are no USPs left other than the classic software that a few of us like to use. 'Worthy' shows that interesting games can still be made. Beats Of Rage shows that people can still push the hardware to support open source games. However, there's no modern PageStream, TurboPrint or Deluxe Paint and unless there is in the future why is there any reason to own an Amiga other than to run the old versions with a new faster and less flakey machine that can also browse the web too?

USING CLASSIC SOFTWARE IS THE ONLY REASON TO USE AN AMIGA IN 2018 EMULATED OR OTHERWISE! AND THE MOST FUN WAY OF DOING THAT IS ON AN AMIGA / AMIGAONE MACHINE!

Last edited by BigD on 25-Jun-2018 at 04:37 PM.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 26-Jun-2018 12:38:41
#126 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3404
From: Unknown

@thread

some tweets

"You should build an atx/itx version and then you could be the winner of the year ...

reply:
"Something like that might be in the works....but we need to see interest in these"

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bison 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 26-Jun-2018 14:24:50
#127 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1458
From: N-Space

@thread

13-Way IBM POWER9 Talos II vs. Intel Xeon vs. AMD Linux Benchmarks On Debian

The Talos II Lite is included in this comparison.

Last edited by bison on 26-Jun-2018 at 02:26 PM.

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Turrican3 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 27-Jun-2018 13:40:57
#128 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 326
From: Italy

@BigD

Quote:
If you're using a PC why use AROS? I still can't see that anyone is going to want to use AROS other than a curiosity.

Well, because it's (unless I'm missing something) a native "Amiga-ish" OS that I can actually run on modern hardware without spending a huge amount of money.

Quote:
Emulation will not lead to an Amiga revival, it's Tabor hardware / Raspberry Pi or a custom ARM machine with an AmigaOS port, a custom Intel machine with an OS port or it's bust IMHO

Hmm I think we actually agree on this, except the Tabor one?
That is, assuming "custom ARM/Intel" doesn't translate to extremely low production run, extremely expensive hardware...

(I will refrain from commenting on the open source thing, I believe it's a complex issue with both pros and cons... anyway, doesn't seem like anything remotely close to that could happen anytime soon regarding Hyperion's AmigaOS)

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Signal 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 27-Jun-2018 14:53:55
#129 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 661
From: USA

@bison

While pondering the results of the tests link you provided it seemed strange that some of the tests like https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=power9-talos-2&num=3 made no difference for each of the Talos 2 setups.

Just something not right (scratch head). Maybe the code for the tests are intel/AMD favorable(?). Today there is https://twitter.com/trudluc/status/1011691644289200128 from a user and for me shows the POWER chips are a different animal that needs different thinking to get best performance.

As for open source AOS. Naa, however Available source may be an alternative. Rather similar to Python where people can do what they want but must be approved by the BDFL (Hyperion) to be part of the OS. This would not prevent coders from selling their product with unapproved code but that code would have to be part of their application and users would need to be informed that the OS may not work proper, or not at all while running it. Kind of like the classic games.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 27-Jun-2018 15:56:00
#130 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3404
From: Unknown

@Signal

The code is not optimized for Power 9 and his features

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tlosm 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 27-Jun-2018 16:57:57
#131 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2660
From: Amiga land

@AmigaBlitter

plus the test was for sure made on Le distro ... it mean no altivec help

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
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PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
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bison 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 31-Aug-2018 13:55:40
#132 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1458
From: N-Space

@thread

A less expensive system may be on the way.

It Looks Like Raptor Is Gearing Up To Release A New Open-Source POWER System

Last edited by bison on 31-Aug-2018 at 01:57 PM.

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bennymee 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 31-Aug-2018 20:06:56
#133 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 554
From: Netherlands

@bison

Good news again, with a good price/performance pricetag hopefully.

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bison 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 6-Oct-2018 18:58:25
#134 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1458
From: N-Space

More info (but no prices yet)

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Raptor-Blackbird-Details

Last edited by bison on 06-Oct-2018 at 06:58 PM.

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bennymee 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 7-Oct-2018 9:01:10
#135 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 554
From: Netherlands

@bison

On Twitter there are some tweets suggesting 700 usd more or less. Add a quadcore Power9, 2x 4GB ECC Ram and the price should be around 1200 USD excl. case etc.

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bison 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 9-Nov-2018 6:08:05
#136 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1458
From: N-Space

Benchmarks. (This is the Raptor Talos II, not the Lite or the Blackbird.)

Raptor Talos II POWER9 Benchmarks Against AMD Threadripper & Intel Core i9

Update

The Performance Impact Of Spectre Mitigation On POWER9

Last edited by bison on 12-Nov-2018 at 03:09 PM.

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Signal 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 9-Nov-2018 14:14:45
#137 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 661
From: USA

@bison

The results certainly have changed for the tests done, and I believe further enhancements are on the way. It's still a relatively new system.

I can say from my own experience that the Talos II is just unreal when it comes to user related speed. Things like opening Firefox from disk first time during a session, or compiling a kernel with yet not fully optimized firmware/software, running 6 youtube videos, timidity, a webcam, play a DVD, and doing a compile does not even slow or affect any part of the ongoing processes. I have yet to load up enough work to bring the CPU fans to even half speed.

I am very happy with this system and maybe next summer I'll purchase a Blackbird. Muahahahaaa.

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K-L 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 9-Nov-2018 20:29:52
#138 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1337
From: Oullins, France

@Signal

Thanks for your tests, it's indeed impressive !

_________________
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bennymee 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 9-Nov-2018 21:00:23
#139 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 554
From: Netherlands

@Signal

Thank you for the information, I hope Power 9 will be more and more attractive and succesfull.

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bison 
Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!!
Posted on 14-Nov-2018 13:58:50
#140 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1458
From: N-Space

@thread

Pricing poll:

Would you pre-order a Raptor Computing Systems Blackbird system or board this year at a mainboard cost of $875?

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