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remotenemesis
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 21-Jun-2018 15:38:21
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Joined: 11-Jan-2018 Posts: 94
From: SF Bay Area, California | | |
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| @Amigo1
I'd like that Amiga DNA to continue too but we'll need to make some breaking changes to fully support modern features. This is healthy IMHO. Windows and macOS have done this continuously over the years. Message ports need to stop sharing memory which means changes to Intuition. IO caching. Full memory protection. Multi-core.
Note I said UNIX not Linux because I'm wondering about something like Dragonfly BSD as a modern kernel with an Amiga userland API. Or maybe a micro-kernel?
Is there anything to take from BeOS?
Commodore were considering making a major break with the past at the R&D stage at least.
This is a Ship of Theseus problem.
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Signal
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 21-Jun-2018 16:46:17
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Joined: 1-Jun-2013 Posts: 664
From: USA | | |
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| @remotenemesis
Quote:
This is a Ship of Theseus problem.
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Fundamentally
Think the Funda part can be done, the mentally part........ not so easy.
_________________ Tinkering with computers. |
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Turrican3
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 25-Jun-2018 15:19:24
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Joined: 20-Jun-2003 Posts: 386
From: Italy | | |
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| @remotenemesis
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I certainly won't criticize the choice to move to PPC all those years ago. I think it was a good call to preserve Amiga heritage and project onto (at the time) a more modern platform. |
Hmm not sure I understand this... Amiga transitioning to PPC wasn't Trevor's choice; if anything, he might have pushed for something different, but as I said before I haven't been following closely the Amiga scene for a long, long time so I could totally be wrong on this. :-\
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What would it take to assemble an modern "Hombre"? The graphics/sounds hardware is commodity. Intel/AMD motherboards are commodity. ARM motherboards are available. Vampire on a card for legacy emulation? |
I'd be tempted to say that a modern "Hombre" is basically any current home console (really can't tell what it would have happened, had the actual Hombre came to the market; maybe C= would have been able to keep a niche market, or maybe they would have gone bankrupt anyway sooner or later)
Having said that, my opinion is that basically 99.9% of the worthwhile Amiga software should be able to run just fune under software emulation, so an hypotetical "nextgen Amiga" might not need any Vampire-like solution. They should, instead, concentrate on a brand new, modern architecture without worrying too much about backwards compatibility... it would need to be an Amiga in spirit and functionalities, not in ancient software that most of the time is obsolete to say the least.
Yeah yeah, I know this would take LOTS of money.
PS: maybe the user that said the only real answer is something that already exists, i.e. AROS, is right... I should give it a try sooner or later. |
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BigD
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 25-Jun-2018 17:29:41
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7323
From: UK | | |
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| @Turrican3
If you're using a PC why use AROS? I still can't see that anyone is going to want to use AROS other than a curiosity. If I switch on an Amiga I expect to use Workbench / AmigaOS. If I switch on my Mac I'll be using macOS or Windows through Bootcamp because those are the OSes that'll get the most out of the machine. I'll get the Amiga feeling by using Grafx2 but beyond that WHY? I use an Atari ST emulator to play one game : Blue War III. Beyond that I can't be bothered. Emulation will not lead to an Amiga revival, it's Tabor hardware / Raspberry Pi or a custom ARM machine with an AmigaOS port, a custom Intel machine with an OS port or it's bust IMHO. And no, I don't think an Open Source version of AmigaOS would help either other than in the eventuality that Hyperion goes bankrupt (again). Last edited by BigD on 25-Jun-2018 at 06:37 PM.
_________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
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BigD
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 25-Jun-2018 17:37:02
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005 Posts: 7323
From: UK | | |
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| @Thread
To be honest anything that we used to do on our Amigas can now be done on a games console or smart phone. There are no USPs left other than the classic software that a few of us like to use. 'Worthy' shows that interesting games can still be made. Beats Of Rage shows that people can still push the hardware to support open source games. However, there's no modern PageStream, TurboPrint or Deluxe Paint and unless there is in the future why is there any reason to own an Amiga other than to run the old versions with a new faster and less flakey machine that can also browse the web too?
USING CLASSIC SOFTWARE IS THE ONLY REASON TO USE AN AMIGA IN 2018 EMULATED OR OTHERWISE! AND THE MOST FUN WAY OF DOING THAT IS ON AN AMIGA / AMIGAONE MACHINE!
Last edited by BigD on 25-Jun-2018 at 05:37 PM.
_________________ "Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art." John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios |
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AmigaBlitter
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 26-Jun-2018 13:38:41
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Elite Member |
Joined: 26-Sep-2005 Posts: 3513
From: Unknown | | |
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| @thread
some tweets
"You should build an atx/itx version and then you could be the winner of the year ...
reply: "Something like that might be in the works....but we need to see interest in these"
_________________ retired |
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bison
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 26-Jun-2018 15:24:50
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007 Posts: 2112
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Turrican3
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 27-Jun-2018 14:40:57
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Regular Member |
Joined: 20-Jun-2003 Posts: 386
From: Italy | | |
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| @BigD
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If you're using a PC why use AROS? I still can't see that anyone is going to want to use AROS other than a curiosity. |
Well, because it's (unless I'm missing something) a native "Amiga-ish" OS that I can actually run on modern hardware without spending a huge amount of money.
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Emulation will not lead to an Amiga revival, it's Tabor hardware / Raspberry Pi or a custom ARM machine with an AmigaOS port, a custom Intel machine with an OS port or it's bust IMHO |
Hmm I think we actually agree on this, except the Tabor one? That is, assuming "custom ARM/Intel" doesn't translate to extremely low production run, extremely expensive hardware...
(I will refrain from commenting on the open source thing, I believe it's a complex issue with both pros and cons... anyway, doesn't seem like anything remotely close to that could happen anytime soon regarding Hyperion's AmigaOS) |
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Signal
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 27-Jun-2018 15:53:55
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Joined: 1-Jun-2013 Posts: 664
From: USA | | |
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| @bison
While pondering the results of the tests link you provided it seemed strange that some of the tests like https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=power9-talos-2&num=3 made no difference for each of the Talos 2 setups.
Just something not right (scratch head). Maybe the code for the tests are intel/AMD favorable(?). Today there is https://twitter.com/trudluc/status/1011691644289200128 from a user and for me shows the POWER chips are a different animal that needs different thinking to get best performance.
As for open source AOS. Naa, however Available source may be an alternative. Rather similar to Python where people can do what they want but must be approved by the BDFL (Hyperion) to be part of the OS. This would not prevent coders from selling their product with unapproved code but that code would have to be part of their application and users would need to be informed that the OS may not work proper, or not at all while running it. Kind of like the classic games.
_________________ Tinkering with computers. |
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AmigaBlitter
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 27-Jun-2018 16:56:00
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Joined: 26-Sep-2005 Posts: 3513
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| @Signal
The code is not optimized for Power 9 and his features _________________ retired |
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tlosm
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 27-Jun-2018 17:57:57
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Elite Member |
Joined: 28-Jul-2012 Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land | | |
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| @AmigaBlitter
plus the test was for sure made on Le distro ... it mean no altivec help
_________________ I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB; MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz; #nomorea-eoninmyhome |
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bison
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 31-Aug-2018 14:55:40
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007 Posts: 2112
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bennymee
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 31-Aug-2018 21:06:56
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Joined: 19-Aug-2003 Posts: 697
From: Netherlands | | |
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| @bison
Good news again, with a good price/performance pricetag hopefully.
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bison
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 6-Oct-2018 19:58:25
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007 Posts: 2112
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bennymee
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 7-Oct-2018 10:01:10
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Joined: 19-Aug-2003 Posts: 697
From: Netherlands | | |
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| @bison
On Twitter there are some tweets suggesting 700 usd more or less. Add a quadcore Power9, 2x 4GB ECC Ram and the price should be around 1200 USD excl. case etc. |
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bison
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 9-Nov-2018 6:08:05
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007 Posts: 2112
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Signal
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 9-Nov-2018 14:14:45
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Joined: 1-Jun-2013 Posts: 664
From: USA | | |
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| @bison
The results certainly have changed for the tests done, and I believe further enhancements are on the way. It's still a relatively new system.
I can say from my own experience that the Talos II is just unreal when it comes to user related speed. Things like opening Firefox from disk first time during a session, or compiling a kernel with yet not fully optimized firmware/software, running 6 youtube videos, timidity, a webcam, play a DVD, and doing a compile does not even slow or affect any part of the ongoing processes. I have yet to load up enough work to bring the CPU fans to even half speed.
I am very happy with this system and maybe next summer I'll purchase a Blackbird. Muahahahaaa. _________________ Tinkering with computers. |
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K-L
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 9-Nov-2018 20:29:52
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Joined: 3-Mar-2006 Posts: 1411
From: Oullins, France | | |
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| @Signal
Thanks for your tests, it's indeed impressive ! _________________ PowerMac G5 2,7Ghz - 2GB - Radeon 9650 - MorphOS 3.14 AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700 FPGA Replay + DB 68060 at 85Mhz |
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bennymee
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 9-Nov-2018 21:00:23
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Cult Member |
Joined: 19-Aug-2003 Posts: 697
From: Netherlands | | |
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| @Signal
Thank you for the information, I hope Power 9 will be more and more attractive and succesfull. |
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bison
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 14-Nov-2018 13:58:50
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007 Posts: 2112
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