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arthoropod
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 22-May-2018 16:51:53
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Joined: 14-Feb-2018 Posts: 80
From: Gotham | | |
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| @Hypex
GOOD point, Power 9 is not emulating a PPC, its code compatible with big endian PowerPCs running in a session under the hypervisor. It would just be the other SAM460 hardware that would be emulated.
Giving Power 9 a big advantage over X64's reliance on qemu.
We've seen how long it took to get decent 68K performance on X86, how much of a drag will qemu be emulating Power?
Right now, the best platforms for SAM460 emulation would be the Talos II and the PowerMac 11,2, both capable of running PPC code natively.
And as I've pointed out, no X64 single cpu platform is capable of matching Power 9's maximum of 88 concurrent threads. |
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retro
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 22-May-2018 21:51:57
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Super Member |
Joined: 16-Dec-2003 Posts: 1049
From: Unknown | | |
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| @arthoropod
So insted of being angry about not having power9 .could wee lock at an Another angle here.is it posible to make am xzorro accraletor board or an pci-e connected solution.. it or is it a bottelnick with power 9 on a pci-e board |
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OneTimer1
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 22-May-2018 22:31:11
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Joined: 3-Aug-2015 Posts: 960
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| @arthoropod
Quote:
arthoropod wrote: @OneTimer1
If the Talos II can emulate a SAM460 ....
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So buy it and don't ask for a port. |
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Rob
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 22-May-2018 22:44:10
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Elite Member |
Joined: 20-Mar-2003 Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales | | |
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| @retro
Such cards would have various drawbacks and if put a single board computer on Xorro it will be able to share very little resources with the host computer. If you have the resources to build such a board it's better to use them to make an ATX board more suited to Amiga OS than the Talos II. |
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arthoropod
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 22-May-2018 22:52:06
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Joined: 14-Feb-2018 Posts: 80
From: Gotham | | |
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| @retro
Sure, I don't see why a PCI-E card couldn't be built, you might even be able to install that in an X64 and use it to bridge from one ISA to another.
@Rob
Quote:
If you have the resources to build such a board it's better to use them to make an ATX board more suited to Amiga OS than the Talos II. |
BUT...that's probably the better course, if there are 24 PCI-E lanes available to one Power 9 cpu, an X16, X4, X4, or and X16, X4, 2 to 3 X1, anda PCI slot or two, or forego the x16 (since its gen 4 anyway) and go for a dual X8, X4, and whatever of combinations of X1 PCI-E and PCI slots you want to use the last four PCI-E lanes for.
Look the PPCs from Freescale are guaranteed to be available for at least ten years after introduction by NXP, and some may be available longer through their long term support projects.
So there is some time to work on this. Looking at the expansion limitations of the Talos II Lite, I'd probably regret not buying the full two cpu board. Might pay to wait for an ATX revision.Last edited by arthoropod on 22-May-2018 at 11:18 PM.
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AmigaBlitter
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 23-May-2018 13:37:33
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Joined: 26-Sep-2005 Posts: 3512
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WolfpackN64
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 23-May-2018 13:47:14
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Regular Member |
Joined: 8-Oct-2016 Posts: 300
From: Unknown | | |
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| @AmigaBlitter
I think they should stay with a Supermicro chassis. I thought I read on their Twitter that if the Talos II Lite is sucessful, they might consider an even cheaper ATX version. |
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AmigaBlitter
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 23-May-2018 13:50:14
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Elite Member |
Joined: 26-Sep-2005 Posts: 3512
From: Unknown | | |
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| @WolfpackN64
They're asking to choose with or withous chassis...
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AmigaBlitter
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 23-May-2018 13:58:21
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Elite Member |
Joined: 26-Sep-2005 Posts: 3512
From: Unknown | | |
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| @thread
i see again an opportunity flying away again...
I remember the port OS4 on PS3 thread...
i found an old discussion on the PlayStation forum too (http://community.eu.playstation.com/t5/PS3/Amiga-PS3/m-p/68313)
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Hypex
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 23-May-2018 16:25:23
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Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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Signal
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 23-May-2018 16:55:24
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Cult Member |
Joined: 1-Jun-2013 Posts: 664
From: USA | | |
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| @retro
Quote:
retro wrote: So insted of being angry about not having power9 .could wee lock at an Another angle here.is it posible to make am xzorro accraletor board or an pci-e connected solution.. it or is it a bottelnick with power 9 on a pci-e board |
You can not think of POWER9 in the same way as a ppc that is being used on the AmigaOne boards today. Do yourself a favor and investigate the POWER 8 and 9 CPUs more. They are a different animal and need a little different thinking.
Watch This Presentation_________________ Tinkering with computers. |
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arthoropod
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 23-May-2018 18:34:12
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Joined: 14-Feb-2018 Posts: 80
From: Gotham | | |
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| @Hypex
Quote:
But would this be using QEMU |
No, that's the cool part ,Power 9 can run big endian PPC code natively in one session, little endian Power code in another session, and if you want to use qemu to emulate other ISAs you've got lots of available threads to support it.
The only thing I could see that might require emulation is a running OSX10.4, since emulating a PowerMac G5's hardware would be useful. Not the processor of course, the supporting hardware.
@Signal
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You can not think of POWER9 in the same way as a ppc that is being used on the AmigaOne boards today |
I don't think they get it either, IBM's last desktop oriented PPCs were Power 4 based,. Power 9 has evolved far enough to remain competitive.
Last edited by arthoropod on 23-May-2018 at 06:42 PM. Last edited by arthoropod on 23-May-2018 at 06:42 PM.
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Hypex
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 24-May-2018 16:44:09
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Elite Member |
Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @arthoropod
Quote:
No, that's the cool part ,Power 9 can run big endian PPC code natively in one session, little endian Power code in another session, and if you want to use qemu to emulate other ISAs you've got lots of available threads to support it. |
That's pretty good that it can run PPC code at all. Given that these embedded PowerPC chips we have tend to have slight incompatibilities with each other. But how good is a hypervisor at running supervisor code and interrupts?
I wouldn't have thought running little endian code would be that hard given that endian majors around memory read/write and PPC had instructions to do that sort of thing. Inside the CPU they are pretty much equal and could be thought of as agnostic. And regarding memory, a LE CPU reading a word in and writing it out, will end up with the same exact result as a BE CPU reading a word in and writing it out.
Quote:
The only thing I could see that might require emulation is a running OSX10.4, since emulating a PowerMac G5's hardware would be useful. Not the processor of course, the supporting hardware. |
So a bit more deeper than MOL? Did 10.4 run on 64-bit? I didn't know it had useful supporting hardware. |
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Signal
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 24-May-2018 18:56:01
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Cult Member |
Joined: 1-Jun-2013 Posts: 664
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| @
Looks like Fedora is into both Big/little endian for POWER.
CLICK!
Debian also. _________________ Tinkering with computers. |
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arthoropod
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 24-May-2018 19:30:38
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Member |
Joined: 14-Feb-2018 Posts: 80
From: Gotham | | |
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| @Hypex
The G5 systems were 64 bit supporting up to 8 to 16 GBs of memory, so my guess would be that the last revision of OSX that supported the PPC cpu supported 64 bit operations.
I'm not sure of what all a Power 9 system's hypervisor is capable of, but I did verify it can run concurrent big endian and little endian sessions.
I have no idea what the limitations are to cross session interaction, but some of the bravest of us are already committed to buying an TalosII system.
Keeping in mind that the leaders are the ones with arrows in their backs, I'm holding off a bit, and want to see some further development on 64bit big endian PPC systems like the PowerMac 11,2 G5, the X5000/20 and X5000/40, and the thus unnamed T2080 laptop.
But it is only a matter of time until there are no more big endian Power cpus. The final word on that, from NXP, no further development of the Power based cores. Last edited by arthoropod on 24-May-2018 at 10:43 PM. Last edited by arthoropod on 24-May-2018 at 08:35 PM. Last edited by arthoropod on 24-May-2018 at 08:34 PM. Last edited by arthoropod on 24-May-2018 at 07:32 PM.
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fishy_fis
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Re: AOS4 is a private property of Hyperion. If you can't stand it - leave it. Posted on 25-May-2018 4:14:36
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Elite Member |
Joined: 29-Mar-2004 Posts: 2155
From: Australia | | |
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| @arthoropod
Quote:
And as I've pointed out, no X64 single cpu platform is capable of matching Power 9's maximum of 88 concurrent threads |
Not true. Even Knights Landing from 2013 has upwards of 60 dual threaded cores.
And that was 5 years ago. Plenty of advancement since. |
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fishy_fis
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 25-May-2018 4:20:57
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Elite Member |
Joined: 29-Mar-2004 Posts: 2155
From: Australia | | |
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| @Signal
You're following up on my post asking questions based on things I never said. Perhaps read what I actually wrote before responding?
I said nothing about the quality of the board. I simply suggested you cant have too much raw grunt on the desktop, and that it's unlikely to ever be a platform for OS4, even if it is a good candidate. |
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Signal
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 25-May-2018 18:28:17
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Cult Member |
Joined: 1-Jun-2013 Posts: 664
From: USA | | |
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| @fishy_fis
Quote:
fishy_fis wrote: @Signal
You're following up on my post asking questions based on things I never said. Perhaps read what I actually wrote before responding?
I said nothing about the quality of the board. I simply suggested you cant have too much raw grunt on the desktop, and that it's unlikely to ever be a platform for OS4, even if it is a good candidate. |
I did not ask about board quality. I never asked, or replyed to you, anything about OS4 on this platform.
Your posting to me does raise another question; Did you go to the Nancy Pelosi school of thinking? _________________ Tinkering with computers. |
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AmigaBlitter
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 8-Jun-2018 20:26:34
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Elite Member |
Joined: 26-Sep-2005 Posts: 3512
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K-L
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Re: Talos II Lite (Power 9 mobo) $1400, AmigaOS MUST be ported to this!! Posted on 8-Jun-2018 20:42:08
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Super Member |
Joined: 3-Mar-2006 Posts: 1410
From: Oullins, France | | |
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| @AmigaBlitter
Nice ! _________________ PowerMac G5 2,7Ghz - 2GB - Radeon 9650 - MorphOS 3.14 AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700 FPGA Replay + DB 68060 at 85Mhz |
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