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matthey 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 7-Oct-2018 22:59:00
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

SimplePPC wrote:
I have been a little busy with other non Amiga related word and i forgot about that invoice. Anyway i'm pleased to inform we did our 'little part' a couple of days ago :)


Just forgot to pay the invoice again. Somehow, I understand. I take it those AmigaOS 3.1.4 68k sales are doing well. Any chance I could shame you into providing a better deal for the developers or is it your modus operandi to take advantage of business partners to desperately raise cash?

I updated my post above to reflect that Hyperion is now a sponsor of the event this year.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 7-Oct-2018 23:30:50
#22 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 844
From: Vancouver, Canada

Quote:

lylehaze wrote:
One I will miss meeting this year is Hans DeRuiter. I've been working on Radeon audio again, and a few late night talks around the pool would have really helped.


Cool to hear you are working on Radeon audio! :)

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SimplePPC 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 8-Oct-2018 12:11:15
#23 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 109
From: Unknown

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote:
Quote:

SimplePPC wrote:
I have been a little busy with other non Amiga related word and i forgot about that invoice. Anyway i'm pleased to inform we did our 'little part' a couple of days ago :)


Just forgot to pay the invoice again. Somehow, I understand. I take it those AmigaOS 3.1.4 68k sales are doing well. Any chance I could shame you into providing a better deal for the developers or is it your modus operandi to take advantage of business partners to desperately raise cash?

I updated my post above to reflect that Hyperion is now a sponsor of the event this year.


Thank you for your understanding, it's appreciated. I'm not sure what you are referring to with regard to providing a 'better deal' for developers and 'modus operandi to take advantage of business partners to raise cash'. Our relationship(s) with most of our business partners are excellent.

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number6 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 8-Oct-2018 15:24:43
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10681
From: In the village

@thread

Let's use the words from the team themselves....instead.
Not that this will quell any rumors of why people do what, but the team explained quite clearly:

On funding:

Quote:
Just to address the gentle people that suggested some kind of
donation/patronage or to change how development cost is managed:

We, and when I say we, both the testers and developers, are again doing this
as a "labor of love". We all earn zero, and all development costs are ours to
bare with. We will never recover a cent of what we invested, but we knew this
from the start. For us, it was never about money to begin with.

We just hope that some of the profit that is made from selling 3.1.4 gets used
to properly fund the costs for a next round of AmigaOS 68k development. But that
ultimately depends on how well 3.1.4 does when it gets out, and to Hyperion.

Source

Quote:
We (developers and betatesters) are foreign to money matters
regarding OS 3.1.4. We did this as a labor of love for the Amiga.

There was never money involved for us, and there will never be.
But this is something we knew from the start and making money was
never our goal to begin with.

We just hope that if enough revenue is obtained thru the sale of
3.1.4, then Hyperion will cover the costs for a next round of
development. But as of today all costs were ours to bare with. And
the ultimate saying if there will be a next version will be both from
the amount of sales (you) and Hyperion themselves.

Source

On reasoning as to why this was done in the 1st place:
Quote:
That was our goal: let them know we are here, and show them that there is a healthy market on 68k that they never took into consideration.

Source

On perceived responsibility:
Quote:
Someone that's going to be paid for this should really handle more than just the money.

Source

However, any notion that there is no connection to legal activity is, of course, naive.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 08-Oct-2018 at 03:27 PM.

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matthey 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 8-Oct-2018 22:16:48
#25 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

@number6
Well said. I guess that would be a good question for Steven Solie at AmiWest but he knows nothing...nothing at all. For one moment there I thought Hyperion might have a conscience but it looks like they are going to try to hold on with clenched fists until the bitter end. The 68k profits, 100% from the efforts of others, will likely be used to try and raise the sunken PPC ship as they continue to sabotage 68k efforts.

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SimplePPC 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 8-Oct-2018 23:27:00
#26 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 109
From: Unknown

@number6

These quotes don't say we are 'abusing' developers to get rich, we (Hyperion) for once (according to all negativists), listen to the public, establish a team to do AmigaOS3.1.4, let them do their thing (fyi i'm involved every step of the way), release an update AmigaOS3.1.4 and again some people complain.

I have always said, let's do AmigaOS3.1.4, see how the reaction is and then decide HOW to go forward.


PS: why don't you ask me or other people@Hyperion if we are getting rich from this or getting paid ?

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number6 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 8-Oct-2018 23:27:31
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10681
From: In the village

@matthey

Quote:
I guess that would be a good question for Steven Solie at AmiWest


Unless you found something that I'm unaware of, there still is no Hyperion rep for AmiWest.

If that remains the case, I don't see Steve Solie answering questions on their behalf. Do you?

#6

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matthey 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 9-Oct-2018 0:28:10
#28 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 654
From: Kansas

Quote:

SimplePPC wrote:
@number6

These quotes don't say we are 'abusing' developers to get rich, we (Hyperion) for once (according to all negativists), listen to the public, establish a team to do AmigaOS3.1.4, let them do their thing (fyi i'm involved every step of the way), release an update AmigaOS3.1.4 and again some people complain.

I have always said, let's do AmigaOS3.1.4, see how the reaction is and then decide HOW to go forward.

PS: why don't you ask me or other people@Hyperion if we are getting rich from this or getting paid ?


Where is the money going if you aren't "getting paid"? What are your costs if the developers aren't getting paid?

Example with 1000 sales.

28 Euros x 1000 = 28000 Euros
$32 x 1000 = $32,000 U.S.

Maybe you aren't "getting rich" compared to lawyer salaries but that is hardly like not getting paid. You are getting rich off PPC AmigaOS 4 sales though? I suppose this is just a charity tax right off for you?

Quote:

number6 wrote:
Unless you found something that I'm unaware of, there still is no Hyperion rep for AmiWest.


Hyperion is a sponsor without an "official" rep as far as I am aware.

Quote:

If that remains the case, I don't see Steve Solie answering questions on their behalf. Do you?


No.

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number6 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 9-Oct-2018 0:48:20
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10681
From: In the village

@SimplePPC

First, you respond to me when it was matthey you really wanted to respond to.
I don't get that...

In addition:

I find the entire "P.S." vague, therefore it is difficult to comment.

"people at Hyperion" I'm guessing means Tim and Costel. If you are referring to contractors, I just wish you would say so.

"if we are getting rich from this or getting paid"

If that had said, "if we are getting rich from this or EVEN getting paid", I'd discern one clear meaning from this. As it stands I find it vague.

#6

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wawa 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 9-Oct-2018 9:23:27
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6173
From: Unknown

@number6

the question if anybody is getting rich from this aside, wouldnt it potentially matter being able to prove handling some activity around an ip to legitimate its possession in front of a jury?

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Trixie 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 9-Oct-2018 12:47:21
#31 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1822
From: Czech Republic

@SimplePPC

Quote:
let's do AmigaOS3.1.4, see how the reaction is and then decide HOW to go forward.

Fair enough. But what about OS4, your flagship product - wasn't there going to be a paid update? Can you possibly shed any light on that?

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AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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BigD 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 9-Oct-2018 13:35:04
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4916
From: UK

@wawa

Quote:
wouldnt it potentially matter being able to prove handling some activity around an ip to legitimate its possession in front of a jury?


Probably...
... would explain this otherwise fairly bizarre passion project which Thomas is claiming is nothing about monitising the popularity of the new Vampire boards

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OlafS25 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 9-Oct-2018 13:47:16
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5530
From: Unknown

@BigD

it brings some money... the developers do it for free, no advertisement and other costs and as long as it is distributed electronically it means 100% profit to Hyperion

Hyperion has high debts so they need all money they can get

But of course this does not necessarily mean that they invest this money in development

Last edited by OlafS25 on 09-Oct-2018 at 01:47 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 9-Oct-2018 13:52:15
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4916
From: UK

@OlafS25

Quote:
Hyperion has high debts so they need all money they can get


This does not explain rampant legal expenses fighting 'friendly' companies like Cloanto rather than paying off debts or paying developers. Is buying OS3.1.4 the eqivalent of buying a 90s GAP jumper? You get a good product but you're encouraging the company to continue their exploitative business model where the directors get paid but the workers get next to nothing (or actually nothing in the case of Amiga developers ).

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OlafS25 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 9-Oct-2018 14:05:02
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5530
From: Unknown

@BigD

it seems the "classic market" has become the only interesting amiga market left. Basically the fight between Hyperion and Cloanto started (as I understand it) when Hyperion started to become active in the "classic" market what (up to this point) was dominated by Cloanto. It is a fight about a profitable market between two companies. And yes of course, by buying this update you might help Hyperion to continue the legal battle. But that is speculation because we do not know the internal financial situation.

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number6 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 9-Oct-2018 14:26:03
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10681
From: In the village

@BigD

Quote:
This does not explain rampant legal expenses

There is no evidence of "rampant" legal expenses.

Let me offer you a few alternatives:

Source

@OlafS25

Quote:
Basically the fight between Hyperion and Cloanto started (as I understand it) when Hyperion started to become active in the "classic" market what (up to this point) was dominated by Cloanto


Technically, since this perceived violation began in 2010 with Manomio LLC, you could say the emulation market. Whatever.

#6

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Rob 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 9-Oct-2018 18:49:17
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5818
From: S.Wales

@OlafS25

Quote:
. Basically the fight between Hyperion and Cloanto started (as I understand it) when Hyperion started to become active in the "classic" market what (up to this point) was dominated by Cloanto.


Cloanto were only selling the emulation package. Both the licensed ROMs from Amigakit and those included with the ACA500+ predate (by years) Cloanto introducing their "Classic Support" ROMs and disks.

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Yssing 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 9-Oct-2018 21:06:21
#38 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

Hmm yes, one question: Tabor, when?

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BigD 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 10-Oct-2018 9:47:17
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4916
From: UK

@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote:
Hmm yes, one question: Tabor, when?


Before May 2019. Don't think you'll get a more accurate answer than that on which was given during the CheckMate KickStarter campaign.

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mr2 
Re: Questions for AmiWest 2018 Exhibitors/Presenters
Posted on 10-Oct-2018 10:16:50
#40 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Feb-2004
Posts: 635
From: Poland

@AEon

What do you think about Raptor Blackbird MicroATX Power9 board as a new high end AmigaOne?


https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Raptor-Blackbird-Details

EDIT: The expected price is 1200$ with CPU and RAM.

Last edited by mr2 on 10-Oct-2018 at 10:19 AM.

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