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/  Forum Index
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      /  Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
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Signal 
Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 12:17:49
#1 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 664
From: USA

It has been mentioned before that the original Amiga was implemented as a multi-processor system.

Graphics on one processor, sound on another, etc.. Each processor having its own access to data and memory as dictated by a central processor. This should be doable today with the right multicore processor that has the ability to divide the various workloads efficiently amoung several cores with each core having its own path to memory and devices assigned to each task.

Perhaps a device external to the multicore CPU could be implemented to direct commands and data to the various assigned cores rather like the Buster chip in the original Amiga. Not impossible.

GO!

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BigD 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 13:26:56
#2 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5540
From: UK

@Signal

Yeah it's possible. Build a modern operating system from scratch to run the Classic OS / OS4.x application in a sandbox compatibility layer like Apple did in OSX Tiger and OSX Snow Leopard and run the modern apps in a multicore enabled true 64 bit OS.

Don't let me fool you that I consider this important or even possible with the current economics. Only with a very strong launch of the Tabor and a mass produced Vampire V4 with OS3.1.4 sales allowing ongoing AmigaOS development is there even the remote possibility of the finances of Hyperion / A-EON being good enough to launch such an endeavour.

As such it remains to be seen whether A-EON and Hyperion can work together to launch the Tabor successfully. It seems from the outside that it's all on A-EON and AmigaKit now and Hyperion are too busy in court and messing around with OS3.1.4.

Last edited by BigD on 29-Mar-2019 at 01:28 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 29-Mar-2019 at 01:27 PM.

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number6 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 13:33:59
#3 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10972
From: In the village

@BigD

Quote:
As such it remains to be seen whether A-EON and Hyperion can work together


Seeing as how execsg doesn't seem to be owned by either Hyperion OR A-EON, I'm not sure you're including the proper parties in your statement.

#6

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BigD 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 13:38:05
#4 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5540
From: UK

@number6

Explain... Everyone assumed that A-EON owned it until Trevor clarified that they don't! So Cloanto now own it? Does that mean that the Tabor port of AmigaOS is in limbo? What are you saying?

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number6 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 13:54:01
#5 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10972
From: In the village

@BigD

There are 3 things to go on here, imo.

This would indicate by the posting date of January, 2019 and "6+ months ago" that this has been known since at least last June, 2018.
Source

Trevor's denial of A-Eon ownership:
Quote:
A-EON Technology Ltd does not own ExecSG. Period!

Source

Finally, although we know at one point it was licensed to Hyperion by the Friedens, we have Hyperion asking Thomas Richter to produce an execsg replacement:
Source

Obviously since any new ownership is almost instantly proclaimed by a buyer, and we don't see that in this case, we have a little mystery to solve.

#6

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BigD 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 13:56:22
#6 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5540
From: UK

@number6

... can I assume from what you say that the Friedens have fallen out with Hyperion?

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number6 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 14:00:56
#7 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10972
From: In the village

@BigD

I never said such a thing, no.

My opinion follows in the third link from my prior post here.

#6

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BigD 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 14:37:51
#8 ]
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From: UK

@number6

I haven't got time to work this out. So the Friedens were willing to license the ExecSG for a while but now they've sold it to someone else?! Bit confused. What changed and why?

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number6 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 14:49:11
#9 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10972
From: In the village

@BigD

Quote:
What changed and why?


That is not for me to say. 3rd parties should not make announcements for principals, imo.

When you eliminate what is -not-, you are left with what -is-, right?

A-Eon does not own it. Hyperion tried to get someone else to replace it, indicating they don't own it or exercise the necessary control over it, right?
If you can supply another reasonable conclusion than Amiga Documents gave, I'd gladly listen.

#6

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BigD 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 14:53:34
#10 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5540
From: UK

@number6

I honestly don't care about the intricate details of the semantics. Whoever the IP owner is Hyperion should court them like civilised adults, offer a fair price for a new license deal and get on with it!!! If however they'd prefer to throw ALL their lines of credit at the law courts then they are signing their own death warrant IMHO and will probably bring A-EON down with them if they are not careful.

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OlafS25 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 14:55:29
#11 ]
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Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5836
From: Unknown

@number6

Trevor said Aeon not owns it but he did not say that he personal not owns it

at least to me he is the only logic buyer

Cloanto never were interested in PPC NG and I do not see anyone else who has money and could be interested

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BigD 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 15:01:29
#12 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5540
From: UK

@OlafS25

Great that would mean Trevor has leverage over Hyperion which might break the deadlock. I pray that this is true and that Hyperion would cash their AmigaOS 4.x chips ASAP.

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Signal 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 15:03:53
#13 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2013
Posts: 664
From: USA

Lets start again. MULTICORE.

It has been mentioned before that the original Amiga was implemented as a multi-processor system.

Graphics on one processor, sound on another, etc.. Each processor having its own access to data and memory as dictated by a central processor. This should be doable today with the right multicore processor that has the ability to divide the various workloads efficiently amoung several cores with each core having its own path to memory and devices assigned to each task.

Perhaps a device external to the multicore CPU could be implemented to direct commands and data to the various assigned cores rather like the Buster chip in the original Amiga. Not impossible.

So far we have from @BigD, It's possible.

GO!

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Lou 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 15:18:58
#14 ]
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Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4065
From: Rhode Island

@Signal

Isn't AROSx64 already SMP?

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BigD 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 15:20:52
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5540
From: UK

@Signal

I ask you the meta question: Why is it such a big deal?

Are we trying to port The Last of Us or back port a modern version of LightWave? Or as I suspect are we simply trying to justify the expenditure on the multicore AmigaOne PPC machines some of us already own?

If the Tabor fails then this is a mute point IMHO. We'll only have emulation on macOS, Windows or Linux to fall back on and they are all multicore 64 bit systems so no worries!

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BigD 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 15:22:14
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5540
From: UK

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote:
@Signal

Isn't AROSx64 already SMP?


... oh yeah. There's also AROS

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bison 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 17:22:14
#17 ]
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1762
From: N-Space

@Signal

I think you would have to handle "legacy" apps separately from "modern" apps to make this work.

Trying to get existing apps to work on a multi-core system probably falls in the range somewhere between "very difficult" and "impossible." But I suppose one could devise a system where the OS and "legacy" apps all ran on a single core, but with the OS extended to allow "modern" apps to run on other cores.

Unfortunately, any software that anyone is running now would be in the category of "legacy" apps. So you're probably looking at extending the OS and writing new apps. And BTW, memory protection (process isolation) should be added for "modern" apps, or it's really not worth doing in the first place.


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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 17:44:52
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11600
From: Norway

@number6

the X-kernel.

http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.com/?p=1010


Hyperion's planes was the X-Kernel to replace ExecSG, or possibly run in parallel with ExecSG.

But then resources was diverted from that into Tabor and X50x0 system and Open Office everyone is waiting on, and TimberWolf project.

If money was not issue, we have now Hypervisor layer to allow where good way to manage resources, like IO, CPU and RAM, if that infrastructure was in place. Several version of kernels might run parallel and where effectively schedule and mange resources between different environments.

Several strategies to communicate between operating system need to implemented, to take advantage of this, even if new kernel was not implemented, even if we only had two ExecSG kernels running we divide takes into kernel for critical tasks and a kernel for user task. By doing this devices and USB, and number of key resources be safe from memory corruption, by dividing apps into two groups, the system be a lot more able to recover debug information, in system freezes. And disk corruption.

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Leo 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 17:58:25
#19 ]
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Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

Quote:

AmigaOS 4.2
Depends on Gallium3D release
May or may not depend on multicore support

I wonder what happened with Gallium too...

Oh, and this was already 6 years ago :/

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Multicore Amiga. A discussion.
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 18:16:52
#20 ]
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11600
From: Norway

@Leo

I be surprised if that is not revised, considering RadeonHD from A-EON, on the other hand if A-EON does Radeon, it be good for Hyperion to do NVidia drivers. (Provided that somehow magically get funding and get developers to do it.)

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 29-Mar-2019 at 09:49 PM.

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