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Trekiej
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Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 24-Aug-2019 15:53:00
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Cult Member |
Joined: 17-Oct-2006 Posts: 890
From: Unknown | | |
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| I was wondering what the pros and cons of each slot.
How does the performance compare between each other when doing video?
Is it possible for Zorro 2 to get more speed if it was reworked? I think the A2000 Main Board would need more layers.
Where there ever any Accelerators or Co-processor for a Z2 slot, instead of the 86 pin CPU slot?
_________________ John 3:16 |
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Trekiej
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 24-Aug-2019 15:59:26
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Joined: 17-Oct-2006 Posts: 890
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Trekiej
More I think about it. The Video slot is partially a one way street, except for the parallel port connection.
_________________ John 3:16 |
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Kronos
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 24-Aug-2019 16:43:00
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Elite Member |
Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 2561
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Trekiej
You really need to educate yourself bout the basic HW of the Amiga.
Videoport is just as way to access the onboard-video within the case, all signals can be found on the external video(+parallel and audio) port.
Zorro is the buffered CPU bus just like ISA slots on old PCs.
As for CPUs in the Zorro-slot, all C= and Vortex BridgeBoards could be used in that way and there was the (never released) A2630 based Z2 card. _________________ - We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet - blame Canada |
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Trekiej
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 24-Aug-2019 17:43:28
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Cult Member |
Joined: 17-Oct-2006 Posts: 890
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Kronos
Yes, I understand. What I was originally thinking was what kind of frame rates the two ports could do.
Sure the Z2 is more flexible and probably has faster data transfer.
Okay, the Video Slot is more specialized. I will give it that.
_________________ John 3:16 |
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Trekiej
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 24-Aug-2019 17:46:20
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Cult Member |
Joined: 17-Oct-2006 Posts: 890
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Kronos
Ultimately, an Accelerator with built-in video would be the fastest or best. _________________ John 3:16 |
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jPV
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 24-Aug-2019 18:59:29
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Joined: 11-Apr-2005 Posts: 812
From: .fi | | |
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| @Trekiej
I don't think you completely understood it :) Video slot just gives you the signal that Amiga's chipset produces, it's the same signal you get from the RGB port, composite output, etc. Video slot is just different kind of connector to get that original signal OCS/ECS/AGA produces. It's no faster than you get otherwise from Amiga's standard connectors.
And Zorro II's bandwidth isn't that much, it's actually slower than AGA, for example, but it just allows you to expand the Amiga with other kinds of graphics processors, which are more suitable for higher resolutions, depths, and acceleration than Amiga's original chipsets. That what makes those Z2 graphics cards a bit faster in certain situations. For much better speeds you'll need Zorro III, PCI, or something CPU expansion port as you mentioned (BlizzardVision/CyberVision PPC used this)...
Last edited by jPV on 24-Aug-2019 at 07:00 PM.
_________________ - The wiki based MorphOS Library - Your starting point for MorphOS - Software made by jPV^RNO |
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Kronos
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 24-Aug-2019 19:25:51
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Elite Member |
Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 2561
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Trekiej
Quote:
Trekiej wrote: @Kronos
Ultimately, an Accelerator with built-in video would be the fastest or best. |
"built in" wasn't an option back in 198x, but the Phase5 PPC cards + Permedia come really close to that.
Or you could buy the new ZZ9000 a GFX-card with ARM-CPU onboard._________________ - We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet - blame Canada |
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Trekiej
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 25-Aug-2019 12:01:55
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Joined: 17-Oct-2006 Posts: 890
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Kronos
zz9000 would be awesome.
_________________ John 3:16 |
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Trekiej
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 25-Aug-2019 12:07:13
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Cult Member |
Joined: 17-Oct-2006 Posts: 890
From: Unknown | | |
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| @jPV
Yes, I do understand that, honestly. :D It also has a Centronics Parallel Port added to it. That can be bi-directional. Would a video card that is hooked to the Video Slot be capable of having 3D Acceleration? I think that it could be really slow.
I wish I had an Opal Vision card.
I need to think more about the question before I post. :D
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evilFrog
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 25-Aug-2019 13:07:40
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Regular Member |
Joined: 20-Jan-2004 Posts: 397
From: UK | | |
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| @Trekiej
Massively slow, parallel ports are 150kbps to about 2Mbps, and the Amiga will be at the low end of that range. Zorro can theoretically give you 42-1200Mbps.
However: re-implementing the Graffiti as an internal card would only need the video slot, that would be interesting. _________________ "Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard, be evil." |
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Hypex
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 25-Aug-2019 17:26:10
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Joined: 6-May-2007 Posts: 11204
From: Greensborough, Australia | | |
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| @Kronos
Quote:
Videoport is just as way to access the onboard-video within the case, all signals can be found on the external video(+parallel and audio) port. |
Is that all? I would have expected the video slot to have the digital lines for all RGB. That would mean there's no difference between an analogue scan doubler on the external RGB port and an internal scan doubler except for the neatless factor. Rather pointless it seems not to have access to perfect digital RGB on the inside lnes. |
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OneTimer1
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 25-Aug-2019 17:26:37
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Joined: 3-Aug-2015 Posts: 973
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| @evilFrog
Quote:
However: re-implementing the Graffiti as an internal card would only need the video slot, that would be interesting.
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AFAIK some parts of the Grafitti are build into the last Indivision Flicker Fixers. Once I asked Jens about a Flicker Fixer / Indivision Version for the video slot, because it is a so much better place than all this on chip adapters.
Well, Jens was not interested ... |
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Akiko
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 25-Aug-2019 17:41:40
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Cult Member |
Joined: 26-Mar-2004 Posts: 781
From: UK | | |
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Ultimately, an Accelerator with built-in video would be the fastest or best. |
In a recent video on his YouTube channel Stephen Leary who designs the Terrible Fire line of accelerators says he has some ideas on how to do just that.
After he completes his TF360 accelerator which will be for most Amiga's including big box, he hopes within a couple of years to have developed a version of the TF360 which will have something like a raspberry pi compute module fully integrated onto it's bus. My limited understanding is that it would enable High resolution HDMI graphics, with ARM acceleration something similar to the ZZ9000 board._________________ 4000T/BFG9060 CD32/Elsat ProModule, TF360 CD32/ Edu's CD32 <> A1200 Adapter, Vampire V2 CD32/ FMV Module |
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evilFrog
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 25-Aug-2019 20:34:02
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Regular Member |
Joined: 20-Jan-2004 Posts: 397
From: UK | | |
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| @OneTimer1
Quote:
OneTimer1 wrote:
AFAIK some parts of the Grafitti are build into the last Indivision Flicker Fixers. Once I asked Jens about a Flicker Fixer / Indivision Version for the video slot, because it is a so much better place than all this on chip adapters.
Well, Jens was not interested ... |
That’s a real shame. From where I’m sat it seems like it’d be such an obvious win to do it. Perhaps those teenty little 'clip over the chip' boards are easier/better, but you need to make more of them to take account of the physical limitations..._________________ "Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard, be evil." |
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Trekiej
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 25-Aug-2019 22:19:55
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Cult Member |
Joined: 17-Oct-2006 Posts: 890
From: Unknown | | |
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| @evilFrog
I wish icomp would make an internal Graffiti box.
edit:
The zz9000 would work too. Last edited by Trekiej on 25-Aug-2019 at 10:28 PM.
_________________ John 3:16 |
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kolla
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 27-Aug-2019 12:18:43
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Aug-2003 Posts: 2885
From: Trondheim, Norway | | |
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| Next week - 23pin video port vs. PCMCIA. _________________ B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC |
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evilFrog
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 27-Aug-2019 16:17:23
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Regular Member |
Joined: 20-Jan-2004 Posts: 397
From: UK | | |
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| @kolla
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kolla wrote: Next week - 23pin video port vs. PCMCIA. |
You jest, but I’m pretty sure they did gfx cards for that sucker. Wouldn’t be the worst accessory in the world for your A600, assuming you could get drivers. _________________ "Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard, be evil." |
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Rose
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 27-Aug-2019 21:29:08
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Cult Member |
Joined: 5-Nov-2009 Posts: 982
From: Unknown | | |
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| @evilFrog
Quote:
evilFrog wrote: @kolla
Quote:
kolla wrote: Next week - 23pin video port vs. PCMCIA. |
You jest, but I’m pretty sure they did gfx cards for that sucker. Wouldn’t be the worst accessory in the world for your A600, assuming you could get drivers. |
Saw one once many many moons ago. Boy it was slow, but that shouldnt be surprise considering bandwidth that on Amiga's PCMCIA is pretty close to 16bit ISA. |
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Kronos
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 28-Aug-2019 21:19:24
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Elite Member |
Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 2561
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Rose
No surprise cos thats just what it is....... _________________ - We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet - blame Canada |
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AmigaHope
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Re: Zorro Vs Video Slot Posted on 31-Aug-2019 23:42:02
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Member |
Joined: 23-Jan-2007 Posts: 20
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Trekiej
Theoretically using both slots could give you more bandwidth than Z2 alone, since the video slot effectively gives you data transfer equivalent to Denise's DMA time, independent of the CPU bus (ONE WAY though)... You could make some weird hybrid video driver where part of the updates are CPU-driven over Z2 and the rest are Copper-driven through Denise.
The question is what useful task could you possibly accomplish with this? Anything you can do with the Copper would be better done internally with the chipset on the card itself. The only card that could potentially benefit from this would be one that didn't have any meaningful coprocessor on it,. Last edited by AmigaHope on 31-Aug-2019 at 11:43 PM.
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