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nikosidis 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 17-Oct-2019 10:33:35
#141 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 933
From: Norway, Oslo

@OlafS25

+ 1

You are absolutly right. The huge problem with AROS now is that it is no OS devs. left exept for maybe Kalamatee. I look at it as dead except for 68k where now Vamp. team and others might do stuff.
For all OS4 and MorphOS supporters you probably now don't have more to look at regarding AROS source code and you got rid of one competitor.

Last edited by nikosidis on 17-Oct-2019 at 10:35 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 17-Oct-2019 10:35:50
#142 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5615
From: Unknown

@Kronos

user space is a kind of virtual environment?

then they need everything in 32bit and 64bit?

On Windows the API is 64bit and 32bit Software API calls are translated (if I remember right)

A 32bit environment would need the whole API 32bit

Last edited by OlafS25 on 17-Oct-2019 at 10:38 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 17-Oct-2019 10:42:23
#143 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5615
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

OS4 is not much more active than Aros was and is (someone mentioned number of commits over a couple of months...)

the only activity is where money is involved (aeon)

MorphOS is heading in a different direction, I doubt that aros sources are of much interest for them anymore (except perhaps they looked at how SMP was done in aros as inspiration but that is only guess). Implementation will have to be different because the goals are different.

The differences between the platforms will rise.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 17-Oct-2019 at 10:43 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 17-Oct-2019 11:36:15
#144 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5615
From: Unknown

@nikosidis

I would say it not that negative...

AROS has no competitor left and is targeting the by far biggest market.... MorphOS is propably years away from the big jump and noone can predict if it will be a success. And AmigaOS is not a big success either. Even if they announced a price now Tabor is not available yet. And even if, we will see how good it sells. There are reasons why Hyperion started to sell products like 3.1.4

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nikosidis 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 17-Oct-2019 12:29:59
#145 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 933
From: Norway, Oslo

@OlafS25

Sure is. This is why the legal battle.
Classic is where Amiga is alive and will be alive for a long time.
The problem for AROS 68k is that it might come a time where the court situation is over and classic AmigaOS 68k is updated to a better state.
That way we restrict the OS again and rely on someone that make money out of it. I'm not saying making Money is a bad thing but would it not be nice if the OS could be open and developed at any time by anyone. Just think about how the situation have been and if we don't watch out, might become again.
We, the users and community is what kept the Amiga alive.
What we shall and must do is support and buy games or other software being developed. That way we have a healty thing going on where people can make Money.

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AP 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 17-Oct-2019 13:22:50
#146 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 425
From: Vienna/Austria

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@nikosidis
(...)
the only activity is where money is involved (aeon)
(...)


Yes, but that´s a very important difference. On AOS4 you have more activity from third-party-developers (A-EON, Entwickler-X etc.). Its not only about the OS, its´about software, hardware and activity "around" the OS.

To some degree MorphOS has the same problem (lack of 3rd-party-developments), but at least there are good improvements and progress from the MorphOS-team, incl. an ISA-switch in the future.

On AROS there is a lack on both areas... (OS-development and 3rd-party-development)

Last edited by AP on 17-Oct-2019 at 01:24 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 17-Oct-2019 13:26:44
#147 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5615
From: Unknown

@AP

it depends what you mean with Aros

on X86 sure

on 68k I have no problem. I have tons of software (both applications and games) that work

and other platforms (X86, X64, PPC) are not interesting to me anyway

ARM is interesting because of affordable hardware (RPi...)

And yes Aeon and Entwickler-X

how many new software are they publishing?

Software drives both development and sales

I do not see AmigaOS or MorphOS in a much better situation than Aros. NG has simply failed. if now a "true NG" will change much is doubtful. The big cut should have happpened many years ago already. Now it is too late in my view.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 17-Oct-2019 at 01:32 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 17-Oct-2019 at 01:28 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 17-Oct-2019 13:41:10
#148 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5615
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

regarding aeon

next to the enhancer package (3D drivers and new versions of AmigaOS components) only Personal Paint that offered almost no new functions except running natively on PPC. Not interesting to the vast majority of users.

and entwickler-X how many games per year?

it is idealistic to support such small platforms like amigaos at all but it is not enough to prove how great 3rd party support at amigaos is

Again... all NG platforms are in a bad situation but Aros at least has a chance to get at least one leg in the amiga 68k market. I am not that pessimistic

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AP 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 17-Oct-2019 16:03:06
#149 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 425
From: Vienna/Austria

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@AP

it depends what you mean with Aros

on X86 sure

.


I mean AROS x86 as "NG"-OS, AROS for ARM isn´t ready yet and AROS for 68k is a different thing. Sure, there isn´t much a difference between AROSx86, AOS4 and MorphOS in one regard: They all failed to establish an NG-AmigaOS with some kind of healthy market.

But there is - as a fact - more commercial software available for AOS4 in comparition to AROSx86 (all Entwickler-X games so far, Gorky17 and SiN from Hyperion, applications like PPaint etc.) and some important stuff from "private" developers like Ignition or AmiCygnix. Or take Blender as example: There are at least older versions for AOS4 and MOS, but no version for AROS.

And there is some interesting software in development (as you asked for new devbelopments from A-EON and Entwickler-X), like LibreOffice and a new shooter-game from Entwickler-X.

AROS has - for example - zero development regarding Office-Software (beside a new version of FinalWriter, which will be available for MorphOS and AOS4, too).

So, to sum it up, there is a difference regarding 3rdparty-development between AOS4 and AROSx86 for sure.

P.S.: And regarding OS-development, there is a difference, too. Here I would say, that MorphOS is doing the best job at the moment regarding updates and a future-perspective (ISA-switch).

Last edited by AP on 17-Oct-2019 at 04:07 PM.

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nikosidis 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 17-Oct-2019 16:22:00
#150 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 933
From: Norway, Oslo

@AP

I don't get that Office thing. AROS and MorphOS have better internet browsers than OS4 ever had. AROS version are getting old but at least before I could use Google docs to some degree.
Is not that good enough with auto save and everything?

That is where I would rather put my reasources doing something for OS4.

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AP 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 17-Oct-2019 16:37:52
#151 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 425
From: Vienna/Austria

@nikosidis

Quote:

nikosidis wrote:
@AP

I don't get that Office thing. AROS and MorphOS have better internet browsers than OS4 ever had. AROS version are getting old but at least before I could use Google docs to some degree.
Is not that good enough with auto save and everything?

That is where I would rather put my reasources doing something for OS4.


I am not a fan of google docs and you can´t compare it with a real office-suit like LibreOffice, but I agree: A modern or at least a more modern webbrowser should have the highest priority for AOS4. I hope A-Eon will put some money in this direction.

And LibreOffice was just an example for Olaf, I don´t say, that a full blown Office-suite is my first priority for AmigaOS4. More so, as you can use AbiWord and Gnumeric on AmigaOS4 (with AmiCygnix), anyway.

Last edited by AP on 17-Oct-2019 at 04:40 PM.
Last edited by AP on 17-Oct-2019 at 04:39 PM.
Last edited by AP on 17-Oct-2019 at 04:38 PM.

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terminills 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 17-Oct-2019 19:01:47
#152 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1377
From: Unknown

@AP

FinalWriter will be available for AROS for a while before it's available for MorphOS or AOS4.

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paolone 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 17-Oct-2019 22:03:49
#153 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1048
From: Unknown

@AP

Quote:
AROS has - for example - zero development regarding Office-Software


yes, yes...

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AP 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 18-Oct-2019 7:53:48
#154 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 425
From: Vienna/Austria

@paolone: Ok, I correct my statement from "zero development regarding Office-Software" to "almost zero development regarding Office-Software".

But honestly: You compare a very basic spreadsheet (the author calls it alpha-version with bugs and limited functionality) with Ingnition or Gnumeric on AmigaOS4? And LEU isn't even AROS-only, its also available on AOS4 and MorphOS. So point not really proven, sorry.



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AP 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 18-Oct-2019 7:54:35
#155 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 425
From: Vienna/Austria

@terminills

Quote:

terminills wrote:
@AP

FinalWriter will be available for AROS for a while before it's available for MorphOS or AOS4.



Ok, I see. Thank you for the status-update.

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OlafS25 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 18-Oct-2019 8:31:06
#156 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5615
From: Unknown

@AP

I have no problem There are tons of software running on 68k ;)

There were different views in the aros camp regarding future and much skepticism regarding the 68k branch, even doubts if it makes sense at all

But in my view (and from feedback and discussions I am not alone there) the 68k aros branch makes most sense, much more than X86 or X64. The reasons why I think so I have already posted.

68k solves many problems aros has, f.e. missing components and the limited software base. And it is (besides 3.1 of course) without competition there. Open Sourcing of 3.1 will never happen because Hyperion has no interest to do that. If it would be possible at all (from a legal side) is out of my knowledge.

The only other branch that could give a boost would be ARM with RPi

X86/X64 branch on Aros is more or less dead at the moment

New Software was somewhere between Morphos (no third party development) and AmigaOS (a little third party development)

On 68k I had often the problem that people think only special aros software would run on aros 68k. I hope more people will use it as second system and the more users and feedback hopefully more developers will become interested (both software and OS development)

Last edited by OlafS25 on 18-Oct-2019 at 08:38 AM.

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Trixie 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 18-Oct-2019 8:43:47
#157 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1847
From: Czech Republic

@Cool_amigaN

Quote:
Another example of software displayed on A34 was Libre Office on OS4. It's been years since it was announced, perhaps it might never materialize but nevertheless it's the most advanced Office Suite on the whole Amiga ecosystem and it was there for a test drive.

LibreOffice betatesting continues behind the scenes. There is active development, bugs are fixed on a regular basis.

Quote:
If people were pushing and asking Hyperion for a release day I am pretty sure that we would have seen more movement in that direction.

That would mean barking up the wrong tree because Hyperion has nothing to do with the LibreOffice port. It's an A-EON project.

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rzookol 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 18-Oct-2019 9:06:09
#158 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Oct-2005
Posts: 254
From: Poland, Lublin

@OlafS25

Why do You think that MorphOS has no 3rd party development?
Please check:
https://www.morphos-storage.net/?last=50

and later:
http://os4depot.net/?function=recent

For me, MorphOS has much more application released recently (and mostly written from scratch - not the quick linux ports) than AmigaOS4.x (OS4Depot for example has tons of ported linux utils which are already in MorphOS SDK).
The only thing where MorphOS is behind AmigaOS4 is the commercial software, as only Hollywood was released this year. From the other side MorphOS has best Amstrad emulator ever http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/ACE_(Emulator), written from scratch. I don't see any such complicated application for AmigaOS4.x released recently as non-commercial.

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tlosm 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 18-Oct-2019 9:54:14
#159 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2660
From: Amiga land

@rzookol

this is the most interesting thing

https://www.morphos-storage.net/Screenshots/MorphOS_on_AMD64.jpg

Last edited by tlosm on 18-Oct-2019 at 09:56 AM.

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AP 
Re: Get ready for 64-bit Amigas!
Posted on 18-Oct-2019 10:19:34
#160 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 425
From: Vienna/Austria

@rzookol

Quote:

The only thing where MorphOS is behind AmigaOS4 is the commercial software, as only Hollywood was released this year. (...). I don't see any such complicated application for AmigaOS4.x released recently as non-commercial.


I have to diaagree, because there are also some (for me very important) developments from private developers: Ingnition and AmiCygnix (and within AmiCygnix ports for Gnumeric, AbiWord etc.), for example. Both are non commercial and complex.

But that doesn´t mean that MorphOS has no software, of course. And - as I said before - regarding OS-development I would say MorphOS is number one in the NG-field at the moment, especially with the development torwards AMD64 in mind.

Last edited by AP on 18-Oct-2019 at 11:16 AM.
Last edited by AP on 18-Oct-2019 at 10:22 AM.

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