@OlafS25

I agree with you. Lots of negativity going round...

Lets focus on what could be coming ...way better than lawsuit shizzle...

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@simplex

Quote:

What resources do AROS' developers have to stave off a lawsuit?

Right now: obscurity.

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@bison

Quote:

bison wrote: @simplex Quote: What resources do AROS' developers have to stave off a lawsuit? Right now: obscurity.

Really?
That hasn't saved the rest of the Amiga world from legal action.

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@TiredofLife

Well, that and no money.

_________________
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The problem is that for Hyperion (that is Ben Hermans) law suits is the only form of communication that he somewhat “masters”.

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@amigadave

Quote:

fooled Bill McEwen into signing a contract that would cause him to lose control of the IP for AmigaOS4

From developer point of view "poor" Bill McEwen try to cheat developers and pay ridiculously low amount of money for work. Thanks Good, there was lawyer that help them and Bill McEwen lost IP for AmigaOS4 as a compensation for work.

Quote:

licenses for trademarks "Amigaland" has been repeatedly been dragged further down by legal battles that waste thousands of dollars of potential development funds, and don't result in anything good for the community.

Yes You have right mr batalia should give up.

Quote:

Perhaps it is time to send Hyperion a message they will understand, by no longer supporting their business style with our pocketbooks

From developer point of view, Amiga OS 4.x is binary compatible with 68k software, and have OpenGL with shaders.
This is something that other competitors do not provide.
So get lost.

@ppcamiga1

from developer point of view only software that uses the OS only (mostly applications) run on OS4. And the API is not really compatible

@ppcamiga1

No one "twisted Hyperion's arm" - it was a voluntary contract. Furthermore, Hyperion aren't an exemplar for paying programmers (anything, much less what is equitable). Getting things done and into the market in a reasonable time frame was critical for Amiga Inc, whether or not you agreed with their business initiatives. I can certainly understand why one wouldn't, but that doesn't diminish Hyperion's then obligations.

As for giving anyone at Cloanto advice, I'm sure they would be open to constructive input, if you have some.

As for "so get lost", I chalk that up to poor use of an idiom, because it is utterly juvenile - seriously!

I would like all of the parties to come to their senses, trying to see and appreciate one another's perspectives, hopes, and concerns. Everyone needs to pay their bills, and a return on investment is key to solvency.

Why not let go of the bitterness and choose to have a conciliatory, open mind? I've been harsh toward Hyperion, for sure - it appears to me they deserve it, yet I'm still hoping to be proven wrong.

Last edited by Snorg on 27-Oct-2019 at 03:58 PM.

@OlafS25

The API is compatible for the most part, P96 is maybe bit broken, after OS4.1 Final update 1, I have some issue some stuff I wrote a long time ago, so at least some thing changed.

Hardware is not considered API, its hardware, chips, so not part of that, but you need hardware to run some apps and games native that true.

So API in consists of the old style JMP table so 680x0 programs should find what they are looking for, so also allows AmigaOS to translate 68K register based parameters into stack based arguments, so this this there for translation and compatibility.

The new style interface table, are normal C style function, so all arguments use stack based arguments.

There new stuff added to DOS.library, so you can read correct file sized for files over 2GB, and improvements for large filenames, and so on. However, the old function that do not support long filenames, or do not support large files are not removed. so all your programs that are not designed for >2Gbytes files will work.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2019 at 04:50 PM.

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@Snorg

Quote:

No one "twisted Hyperion's arm" - it was a voluntary contract.

Documents from the 2009 trial are publicly available, so don't lie.

Amiga Inc should provide Amiga OS source code to Hyperion for further work.
Suprise, Amiga Inc has not access to Amiga OS source code because they not pay developers for more than three years. Hyperion pays developers what Amiga Inc owed them.

Quote:

Hyperion aren't an exemplar for paying programmers (anything, much less what is equitable).

68k developer know from the beginning that they work for free. It was their decision.
Amiga Inc cheat Hyperion.

Quote:

Getting things done and into the market in a reasonable time frame was critical for Amiga Inc

So Amiga Inc should provide source code and many time more money to hire more developers to get Amiga Os 4 in reasonable time frame.

Quote:

it appears to me they deserve it

Hyperion deserve respect of Amiga community for getting Amiga Os out of hands of Amiga Inc.

@OlafS25

Quote:

And the API is not really compatible

API is 99,99% compatible. You have no knowledge about it because You never ever made any software for Amiga Os 4.

@ppcamiga1

im not sure if one have to write software for os4 to be aware of differences. one could just scan some of many sources ported across the amiga and "amiga ng" flavours for ifdefs.

@ppcamiga1

AROS API is more compatible to AOS3.1 than AOS4 is. ;)

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@terminills

Quote:

AROS API is more compatible to AOS3.1 than AOS4 is. ;)

yeah, really seems so. and os4 doesnt even need to be endian, architecture or 64bit aware.

anyway, the silence is deafening. aint there anything to report from amiwest?

@terminills

AROS is not compatible with Amiga Os 3.x.
ZUNE is worth nothing crap.
It is easier to port software from Amiga Os 3.x to Windows, than to AROS.
Amiga Os 4.x has original MUI that is fully compatible with good old MUI 3.8 from Amiga Os 3.x

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 28-Oct-2019 at 06:06 PM.

@wawa

Quote:

one could just scan some of many sources ported across the amiga and "amiga ng" flavours for ifdefs.

But if you remove support for large files, remove support for aligned memory, and remove support for virtual memory, and you remove the support for large disk. And you remove the support for true color bitmaps, and if stick to old unsafe functions that have buffer overrun issues, and fixed buffer sizes. You won't need the ifdef at all.

What is better write program that has no improvements or use new features?

One example of changes in AmigaOS3.x vs AmigaOS4. Is where its common to use the following code on AmigaOS3.x.

data=AllocVec(sizeof(…));
InitXXX(&data);

But doing so the system won't know what that memory is, or how to free it, or how to report what was not freed to the developer, in most cases where have something like that its now replaced by AllocSysObject or AllocDosObject. Of course the system does know how to clean up when objects are shared, or because the system don't know how the objects depend on each other, but the idea that things can be classified means that the information can be extracted for debugging tools at least, not sure if anyone has done that yet, but this should be possible. It’s a step in right direction, and no it does not break anything. If your worried about cross platform source code compatibility, split up the project into OS/Linux/#?.o, OS/Windows/#?.o, OS/MorphOS/#?.o, and you won't need all this #ifdef in your code, its not the operating system fault you don't know how organize your source code.

If you only care more about cross platform compatibility support, and do not care about the native OS quarks, then you can stick to SDL, Allegro, or HTML documents , maybe C/C++ programing is too low level for you.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-Oct-2019 at 06:49 PM.
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Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 28-Oct-2019 at 06:39 PM.

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@ppcamiga1

mui has its own API which has nothing to do with AmigaOS 3.1 API. You really should learn wtf you're talking about before you speak.

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@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: anyway, the silence is deafening. aint there anything to report from amiwest?

It's the same as every year: Quite some noise in front, but nothing actually delivered again...

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@terminills

MUI is standard gui on Amiga. Without working MUI clone AROS is worth nothing crap.