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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Upgrading AmigaOne X1000 with the best/latest Software/Hardware?
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Hypex 
Re: Upgrading AmigaOne X1000 with the best/latest Software/Hardware?
Posted on 14-Jun-2020 8:39:44
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9935
From: Greensborough, Australia

@kadenaa

If your harddisk is failing a reinstall won't fix it. You will need to back up your data pronto. Preferably to a new drive. Which you will need if it is failing. Having a bootable Workbench does help.

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Hypex 
Re: Upgrading AmigaOne X1000 with the best/latest Software/Hardware?
Posted on 14-Jun-2020 9:14:59
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9935
From: Greensborough, Australia

@drHirudo

Quote:
I've installed the 4x2 GB memory sticks on the AmigaOne X1000 and I see no stability issues since then (middle of May). There is no difference if I install one or the four 2 GB modules. Filling the RAM drive with more than 1.5 GB of files crashes AmigaOS, but this is no memory problem. I did long memtest of the memory and everything was reported okay. For now I am not able to use more than 2 GB of RAM, but hopefully this will change in the future.


I think the crash is "normal". Though it really should not allow any buffer overrun, I recall it is something to do with the memory setup, which will crash instead of giving you a safer out of memory error.

However, there is the extended memory feature for apps that use it, such as SketchBlock. This would allow using the memory in the 2GB to 4GB region. AFAIK, anything beyond 4GB wouldn't be used because OS4 is still a 32-bit OS.

/Quote:
Issue No.4 - I can't capture 4K to the Decklink, because I can't find the proper screen mode. I think 2160p60 shall be available, but it is not.


It also depends on the definition of 4K. Excusing the pun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution

Only a slight difference in definition.

Quote:
Still not sure if I buy the Enhancer Software pack with the new graphics driver inside, I will be able to directly select the modes of the graphics card and be able to output 4K properly and capture it with the framegrabber.


I bought the Plus Pack which gives the you the latest RadeonHD and 3d drivers. I don't know what else can benefit. There are other graphic drivers, especially on AmiStore, but I find it confusing what they are needed for. There is a graphics add on for the Enhancer package that adds RX drivers but on the X1000 it's unsupported.

http://www.amistore.net

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Upgrading AmigaOne X1000 with the best/latest Software/Hardware?
Posted on 14-Jun-2020 9:38:33
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11357
From: Norway

@Hypex

Quote:
AFAIK, anything beyond 4GB wouldn't be used because OS4 is still a 32-bit OS.


Wrong…. Extended memory objects (ExtMem)

https://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/Exec_Extended_Memory

There is known problem when filling above 2Gbytes, its know bug for long time, it was fixed I believe but only beta testers have it.

If can speculate way it might not work, I guess that you can’t really use ExtMem if there is no free address space to map the upper memory into, it might be that the address space it used up.

If you do not need access to memory all the time, a program using ExtMem can in theory free up address space in the low memory, giving other applications the memory they need.

I guess can be cool to have it for Amos Kittens banks, but it won’t work because I need have “Bank obtain”, “Bank release” commands. Old programs won’t know about, new programs won’t be backwards compatible.

Not sure way they needed ExtMem to do this, virtual memory should have made this possible do this automatically, sure there are some overhead in having to remap memory for etch task swap, to answer my own question maybe way.

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Hypex 
Re: Upgrading AmigaOne X1000 with the best/latest Software/Hardware?
Posted on 15-Jun-2020 15:59:37
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9935
From: Greensborough, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Wrong…. Extended memory objects (ExtMem)


Wrong in what way?

Quote:
https://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/Exec_Extended_Memory


It doesn't exactly say it uses memory beyond 4GB. It agrees with me on OS4 being a 32-bit OS, almost verbatim.

Are you implying that if over 4GB is fitted the ExtMem system can use it? Such as if an X1000 is fitted with 8GB?

Quote:
There is known problem when filling above 2Gbytes, its know bug for long time, it was fixed I believe but only beta testers have it.


That would make it redundant for now since ExtMem would be using 2GB and above.

Quote:
If can speculate way it might not work, I guess that you can't really use ExtMem if there is no free address space to map the upper memory into, it might be that the address space it used up.


In that case I would expect an out of memory error. Which is a basic programming check. If it can't allocate what it needs it shouldn't be attempting to use it in the first place.

But since they've said the RAM disk uses it that would explain the bug when filling the RAM disk up now.

Quote:
If you do not need access to memory all the time, a program using ExtMem can in theory free up address space in the low memory, giving other applications the memory they need.


I expect this would need to happen when the context switches to another task. Which would be expected in a mulitasking OS. But can also be expensive needing to reprogram MMU setup for each task.

Quote:
I guess can be cool to have it for Amos Kittens banks, but it won’t work because I need have “Bank obtain”, “Bank release” commands. Old programs won’t know about, new programs won’t be backwards compatible.


I didn't expect the banks would be so large.

Quote:
Not sure way they needed ExtMem to do this, virtual memory should have made this possible do this automatically, sure there are some overhead in having to remap memory for etch task swap, to answer my own question maybe way.


What I don't understand is a program chosing an address or the OS chosing a random one. That doesn't sound wise. Like going back ot the days of programs writing into specific memory to load their stuff. Or make any sense. The system is you ask for allocation, it is assigned to you, so I don't get the way ExtMem is organised.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Upgrading AmigaOne X1000 with the best/latest Software/Hardware?
Posted on 16-Jun-2020 21:25:21
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11357
From: Norway

@Hypex

Quote:
What I don't understand is a program chosing an address or the OS chosing a random one.


well it scheduler so it’s the OS, that handle virtual memory,

Quote:
That doesn't sound wise. Like going back ot the days of programs writing into specific memory to load their stuff. Or make any sense.


Well ExMem being part kernel, it should work in synergy with virtual memory,

Quote:
The system is you ask for allocation, it is assigned to you, so I don't get the way ExtMem is organized.


it kind of reminds me of memory mapped io, but instead it maps to RAM instead of IO, like you wont have file open all the time you might not need to have access to memory all the time, I guess advantage is frees up address space for other tasks, if managed well, if mismanaged you run out address space yes.
Quote:
Quote:
sure there are some overhead in having to remap memory for etch task swap, to answer my own question maybe way.


I looked it up the mmu map has space for pids, I guess we call this process id’s in Amiga Land, and so when task swap happens It simply skipes to the correct part of the mmu table, so it does not need to reinitialize the mmu table when swapping tasks. Anyway, that makes me even speculate even more way we needed the ExtMem thing to use high memory as virtual memory per task.

https://www.linux-kvm.org/page/PowerPC_Book_E_MMU

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Jun-2020 at 09:28 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Jun-2020 at 09:26 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: Upgrading AmigaOne X1000 with the best/latest Software/Hardware?
Posted on 18-Jun-2020 18:25:35
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9935
From: Greensborough, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
well it scheduler so it's the OS, that handle virtual memory,


According to the wiki:
A mapping is defined by the virtual address in application memory (which can be chosen by the application, or picked at random by the OS), the length of the map’s window, and the offset it maps to in the ExtMem object.

Perhaps it means it can be mapped into memory the app has allocated as workspace.

But that still leaves the OS picking random numbers to be virtual addresses. I don't place faith in an OS that picks organised memory allocations to be at random locations. Is this some kind of security obfuscation feature so apps cannot expect to get the same exact address in repated circumstances?

I think it could rewritten to be more clear. As it stands, since it's talking about computer memory, I tend to read it as literal which doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Well ExMem being part kernel, it should work in synergy with virtual memory,


It should, except a program wanting a specific address to be virtual, looks like too much freedom.

Quote:
it kind of reminds me of memory mapped io, but instead it maps to RAM instead of IO, like you wont have file open all the time you might not need to have access to memory all the time, I guess advantage is frees up address space for other tasks, if managed well, if mismanaged you run out address space yes.


That makes sense, to manage it, I just didn't get how they managed it. Which looks like the app manages it, and can pick it's own address, that can be hardcoded into the program. Or an address can be picked at random in the OS routine that plays memory address bingo.

Quote:
I looked it up the mmu map has space for pids, I guess we call this process id?s in Amiga Land, and so when task swap happens It simply skipes to the correct part of the mmu table, so it does not need to reinitialize the mmu table when swapping tasks. Anyway, that makes me even speculate even more way we needed the ExtMem thing to use high memory as virtual memory per task.


Looks like it's useful. For Book E. But what about Book S? The X1000 being the last of it's kind. Yes process ID, or task ID in Amiga land. But, a task ID isn't really a real ID, it's the address of the task. I guess this makes a good UUID, unless the task finishes and the address is reused. The main problem is it wasn't treated as a task ID in Amiga OS. The user API let on it was an address and what could be done with it. But I bet even if they didn't disclose that information some Amiga hackers would have broke in anyway and hacked the internals despite that. Like the AllocVec() incident.

Last edited by Hypex on 19-Jun-2020 at 05:09 PM.

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kadenaa 
Re: Upgrading AmigaOne X1000 with the best/latest Software/Hardware?
Posted on 20-Jun-2020 8:08:55
#67 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Apr-2003
Posts: 145
From: Sydney

@Hypex

Quote:
@kadenaa

If your harddisk is failing a reinstall won't fix it. You will need to back up your data pronto. Preferably to a new drive. Which you will need if it is failing. Having a bootable Workbench does help.


I already had an SSD in the case ready to go, been sat there for over 7 years. It is a bit of a chicken and egg issue if I can't boot I can't backup :). Long story short, I am now up and running with OS4.1FE thanks to Alinea. My main issue seems to have been a dead battery (not surprising after so long), a cause of much bizarre behavior. The machine is now rock solid booting reliably and all data from the old HD is copied over to the SSD. I just need to work out what is worth keeping and what is not.

Now I just need to work out what has happened in the last 7+ years and what software I need to buy and install to get up to date. Hence my interest in this thread.

Kad.

Last edited by kadenaa on 20-Jun-2020 at 08:16 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Upgrading AmigaOne X1000 with the best/latest Software/Hardware?
Posted on 20-Jun-2020 8:39:33
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11357
From: Norway

@kadenaa

Yes backup battery can do strange things to computers.

that’s not to hard to provided you are not using any crazy file system,
just simply boot from AmigaOS4.1 install CD, provided you can (not messed with boot priorities.)

if the HD is broken, remove the HD install OS4.1 new HD, when your done installing the OS. then insert the second HD, you hopeful continue booting on your new HD, and can move files from the BAD disk.

its not as easy to know what is wrong with X1000, as with XE, the XE you know its the battery because can’t get picture, the X1000, simply does strange things, some times with clock speed or some other things.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Jun-2020 at 08:44 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Jun-2020 at 08:42 AM.

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Hypex 
Re: Upgrading AmigaOne X1000 with the best/latest Software/Hardware?
Posted on 20-Jun-2020 17:47:27
#69 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9935
From: Greensborough, Australia

@kadenaa

Wow seven years is a long time. You got lucky! How small would an SSD of that age be? Hope you used the native block size.

The battery is known for producing the BSOD. The Black Screen Of Death. It's the black plague on these machines.

Even if you could boot with your old CD it would be rather out of date.

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