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PosterThread
deadwood 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 28-Nov-2022 16:43:56
#201 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Nov-2008
Posts: 432
From: Unknown

@kolla

Quote:
Hardware agnostic remains to be seen, I got a good handful of PPC systems running Linux.


It's not clear to me what people understand by hardware agnostic. AROS had a working port for PPC (Sam mother board if I remember). To what level it is still working I don't know. I don't recall if there was Linux-hosted PPC build (which is a based for AxRuntime).

By inheritance, AxRuntime also has "any current" support, but there is no PPC target currently configured (only x86_64). I have more than plenty on my plate right now, but if someone has access to PPC system running Linux and is interested in teaming up to do the port, just contact me.

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https://www.axrt.org

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OlafS25 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 28-Nov-2022 19:01:40
#202 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6213
From: Unknown

@kolla

as far as I remember he wrote that only zune should be ported. Everything else is not needed. Deadwoods ideas are going much more far

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OlafS25 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 28-Nov-2022 19:05:50
#203 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6213
From: Unknown

@pixie

What dou you mean with hardware agnostic here? Aros has to be compiled for every hardware platform and all software also has to be compiled for every platform. You do not have binaries running everywhere or the OS detecting hardware and running on different platforms.

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pixie 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 28-Nov-2022 21:10:13
#204 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2821
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@OlafS25

In the sense it has an HAL, it can run in 68k, arm, x86, PPC, it is agnostic, it isn't tied to a specific CPU. I know the binaries have to be compiled for each one, like Linux.

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

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Hypex 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 8-Dec-2022 2:18:03
#205 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10934
From: Greensborough, Australia

@deadwood

Quote:
It's not clear to me what people understand by hardware agnostic. AROS had a working port for PPC (Sam mother board if I remember). To what level it is still working I don't know. I don't recall if there was Linux-hosted PPC build (which is a based for AxRuntime).


IIRC ub2lb was used to boot it. But there was an hosted PPC AROS. I installed it to my A1/XE running Ubuntu 9.04. I then transferred it to my X1000 running Ubuntu 12.04 I think it was. Still worked fine. Was slightly quirky getting it to boot initially but after that it's fine when you know how. I had fun opening up all the demos and seeing how hard I could push it. I was also impressed at how I could take a 32 bit program running on a 32-bit OS and transparently run it on a 64-bit OS. I don't know if that's because Linux is designed to be future proofed well or because of the PPC design. But last time I tried to run an x86 program on x64 Linux it needed to be recompiled. I haven't tested x64 AROS hosted though.

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OlafS25 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 10-Dec-2022 13:29:21
#206 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6213
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Deadwood has done it again

small progress video showing some progress porting intuition to be a linux windows manager. here showing linux calculator side by side with MUI based calculator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v84udxHh2Lg

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Karlos 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 10-Dec-2022 14:35:29
#207 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3518
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@OlafS25

That's great!

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

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DiscreetFX 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 10-Dec-2022 20:44:55
#208 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2334
From: Chicago, IL

@OlafS25

Cool progress.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

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Bosanac 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 11-Dec-2022 11:15:52
#209 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-May-2022
Posts: 242
From: Unknown

@Karlos

So when are you hacking its runtime loader to embed Musashi and byte swapping for seamless 68k binary support?

You know you want to!

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Karlos 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 11-Dec-2022 13:37:31
#210 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3518
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@Bosanac

Me? I'd rather embed mc64k into it. It's already the right byte order and machine word size.

Last edited by Karlos on 11-Dec-2022 at 01:37 PM.

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

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Hypex 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 11-Dec-2022 14:07:55
#211 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10934
From: Greensborough, Australia

@OlafS25

Think that calculator needs a SIZEBBOTTOM window flag.

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Bosanac 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 11-Dec-2022 16:42:06
#212 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-May-2022
Posts: 242
From: Unknown

@Karlos

But mc64k has the same problem as AROS, it has no software anyone wants to use.

AxRt is great but what will people run on it?

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OlafS25 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 11-Dec-2022 18:48:22
#213 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6213
From: Unknown

@Bosanac

you do not understand the idea behind it obviously. People always asked about something modern and moaned about missing software. With this project they will get both and additionally "amiga feeling". How many finally will use we will see.

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Karlos 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 11-Dec-2022 20:51:47
#214 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3518
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@Bosanac

I have to admit it sounds like something really easy to underestimate the complexity of. Having an emulator is one thing, but you have the additional challenge of sharing data structures with the host. A 68K application will have big endian data and 32-bit pointers sometimes aligned to a 16-bit boundary. Those are the challenges that AROS on x64 has always had. But the point of AROS isn't to run 68K applications, it's to run native recompilations of them. And the point of AxRuntime isn't even to be AROS, it's to be able to run AROS binaries on a more modern platform, sidestepping all the complications around SMP etc by using an underlying OS that already has those features.

That's not to say I don't fully understand the appeal of being able to just run 68K software transparently in it. Who doesn't want that as well as all the modernisation?

Quote:
But mc64k has the same problem as AROS, it has no software anyone wants to use.


It's worse than that. It doesn't have any software at all

Last edited by Karlos on 11-Dec-2022 at 08:53 PM.

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

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ferrels 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 12-Dec-2022 0:02:16
#215 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 913
From: Arizona

@Karlos

The entire point of AxRuntime makes absolutely no sense for the average user. The average user has no desire (nor the requisite skills) to locate the source code for his favorite Amiga app or game to recompile it for Linux against the AxRuntime library. In most cases, the sources for said apps are closed-source or simply no loner available. If you want the look and feel of an Amiga on your Linux box, there are already several solutions for that and if you want your 68K apps running under Linux then just install UAE and be done with it.

AxRuntime only makes sense in terms of porting Amiga OS hardware-friendly, open source apps to Linux and there simply aren't any of those ancient apps that can even compete with what's already available for Linux, so just install the Linux apps and move on. AxRuntime is merely a curiosity for bored programmers.

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OlafS25 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 12-Dec-2022 0:10:32
#216 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6213
From: Unknown

@ferrels

only because you do not understand it, it must be the same for everyone else

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Karlos 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 12-Dec-2022 0:30:19
#217 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3518
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@ferrels

Quote:
AxRuntime is merely a curiosity for bored programmers.


I'll take the creativity of bored programmers over the pitifully empty cup of the terminally incurious any day.

When you eventually have a distro that runs AROS binaries directly on a familiar desktop environment, AxRutime will have done more to modernise the Amiga "user experience" than anyone else in the last few decades. Runs on commodity hardware? Check. Can use more than 4GB properly? Check. SMP? Check. Modern 3D support? Check. Runs a modern browser? Check.

It doesn't directly run Amiga 68K binaries. While that's a shame but it's not the goal of the project either.

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

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ferrels 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 12-Dec-2022 1:58:14
#218 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 913
From: Arizona

@OlafS25

Quote:
only because you do not understand it, it must be the same for everyone else


No, I understand it quite well as do a lot of other professional programmers out there who see absolutely no use for this runtime. It is merely a tinkerer's curiosity. A case in point, why take the sources for the OS3 calculator and compile it for Linux against the AxRuntime when there are already much better calculators for Linux out there? Substitute the OS3 calculator for any other Amiga-oid app out there and the result is the same.

If you like tinkering and wasting your time with such programming exercises, then knock yourself out. But most programmers who still make a living at programming have much better things to do with their time. I don't include you in that group because because long ago you started spending all your time on this forum making snide comments to show off how smart you think you are and flaunting your voluminous amount of "useful" Amiga knowledge instead of doing any real work.

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ferrels 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 12-Dec-2022 2:20:25
#219 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 913
From: Arizona

@Karlos

Quote:
AxRutime will have done more to modernise the Amiga "user experience" than anyone else


You show a profound lack of understanding of what's being done with the AxRuntime. Running Linux on commodity hardware doesn't modernize the Amiga "user experience" any more than running elementaryOS modernizes the MacOS experience. AxRuntime apps are still the same old OS3 user experience but with Linux under the hood. How is that progress?

How does using the same old OS3 window gadgets and Intuition window manager and 68K ported apps under Linux using commodity hardware modernize ANYTHING? Taking Linux and stepping backward in time by porting outdated 68K apps to Linux is a step backward for ANY Linux user, not a step forward for Amiga users.

Everything you mention has been available to Linux for decades and besides, the average Amiga user doesn't want to run Linux even if it looks and feels like an Amiga.

And why am I here? I pop in every few months just out of morbid curiosity to see if the same old losers, mental retards and social rejects are still here spouting the same old bullshit year after year while they're expecting a different outcome to whatever useless trivia they are arguing over. If one didn't know better, they'd assume the name of this site to be AmigaSocialOutcasts.com Nothing changes here except the dates on the posts.

The Amiga is dead and that's where it'll stay. Nothing, not even AxRuntime, AROS, Linux or the combined "genius" of the wankers here will change that. The Amiga is a retro-hobby for classic users and just a waste of time and money for NG users. But hey, that's what hobbies are for. You're not going to convince classic users nor NG users to take up some bastardized version of Linux that runs 68K Amiga ports to use that as their daily driver or to get their Amiga "fix". Maybe the author of AxRuntime himself and the five lunatics that follow him would do so, but that's hardly an Amiga renaissance.

The Amiga died nearly 30 years ago and countless people smarter than you wankers have tried unsuccessfully to resurrect it in various incarnations such as AmigaXL/Amithlon, ARIX, AROS 68K, AROS Hosted, AROS x86, etc., etc....After all this time what makes you self-proclaimed "geniuses" believe that you now have the secret sauce that will raise the Amiga from the ashes like a Phoenix and create a sizeable user base? AxRuntime is a solution looking for problem. No one needs it and even more importantly, no one wants it.

Why would anyone want to take Linux and degrade it by running a handful of substandard (by today's expectations) 68K ported applications and a horrible Intuition window manager? Oh, that's right, because according to Olaf I just don't understand it. No Olaf, my understanding is spot on because I'm rational unlike most of the usual clowns here.

Last edited by ferrels on 12-Dec-2022 at 04:22 AM.
Last edited by ferrels on 12-Dec-2022 at 03:09 AM.

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QBit 
Re: AxRuntime
Posted on 12-Dec-2022 6:10:43
#220 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Jun-2018
Posts: 290
From: Unknown

@ferrels

There is no reason for negativity. If I won 100 Million in the Lottery and donated 10
Million to AROS it would be my own decision so it is for the AROS Fans their decision to do
watever they like. My Amiga is old and dead, but I love it that`s it. I decorate it`s grave
however I like!

When there is a AROS Linux Distribution I will install it on my DUAL CPU 56 Threads PC for sure!

Last edited by QBit on 12-Dec-2022 at 06:27 AM.
Last edited by QBit on 12-Dec-2022 at 06:11 AM.

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