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      /  AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
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DiscreetFX 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 18:51:09
#81 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1916
From: Chicago, IL

@amigakit

Thank you for all your hard work Mathew. It’s nice that this community still exists.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 19:15:01
#82 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11491
From: Norway

@amigadave

Quote:
who used very questionable tactics to steal the AmigaOS4 (only) IP from Amiga Inc.


But did they? They did not get source code from Amiga Inc, becouse Amiga Inc did have the source code, nor was they able to get source from Hagge & Partner because of legal conflict between Amiga Inc and Hagge & Partner, prior to Hyperion Entertainment taking on the work.

First law sues, between Hyperion Entertainment and Amiga Inc, was about buyback agreement, where Amiga Inc was suppose to buy back the source code and work, when it was done, it started because Amiga Inc unhappy about Hyperion not delivering a product as soon as expected. of course everything was changed from initial contract different hardware, different problems, Hyperion Entertainment was contacted to do work on 2D api for Amiga DE, Amiga Inc payed for some work but not for complete package, finally they come to settlement agreement with Amiga Inc, at that time Amiga Inc had gone bankrupt many times over (In the contract it was required that Amiga Inc did not go bankrupt), and also Amiga De had failed completely.

So issue here is that work on AmigaOS4.1 components was never transferred to Amiga Inc, and also Hyperion clamed to have the right to use the AmigaOS3.1 source code for developing AmigaOS, as written in settlement agreement. Now Hyperion decides to make AmigaOS4.1.4, assuming this won’t be issue as Amiga Inc gone.

Hyperion Entertainment get challenged by Mike Battilana how just create new company to buy up all the copyrights (Names of produces), he already as none exclusive license to sell and distribute AmigaOS as part of his emulation package. He already owned name “Workbench”, Mike Battilana has patched and ROM before having ownership of the source code.

Prior to the legal challenge from Mike Battilana Hyperion Entertainment used the text all rights copyright Hyperion bla bla, they later changed the license text to “developed under license”. As they found out they did not have exclusivity or did they own the copyrights.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 08:48 PM.

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kas1e 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 19:38:48
#83 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3432
From: Russia

@amigakit

Are you have plan to rewrite graphics.library ? That probabaly one of major components stoping progress in terms of DMA stuff and co

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cdimauro 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 19:58:02
#84 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2186
From: Germany

@OlafS25 Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@cdimauro

with this mess I am not sure if they (the X1000 buyers) really have a contract with hyperion. Normally you do not have a contract with a company delivering parts but the company selling you the product or (if not directly sold) with the trader that sold you the hardware. In any case... not hyperion. Things are different with aeon who paid for 4.2 already.

Theoretical buyers could ask for some money from trader and the trader could do the same from aeon and aeon could of course request money from hyperion for not fullfilling contract. On the other hand it I do not know how 4.2 exactly is promised in the contracts, if it is inside but no date Hyperion can always claim that it will be delivered somewhen in future. Interesting case for attorneys propably. I do not know how that would end.

Indeed. The only way is that OS4 users finally open their eyes, see that Hyperion is the solely guilty of this mess, and stop financing it.

Hyperion is just cow-milking both its customers and even its developers, giving nothing in exchange. Let it finally die.

Then AEON or another company which really interested on continuing the development can buy its assets and put a tombstone to this sad story.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 20:59:19
#85 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11491
From: Norway

@cdimauro

Quote:
Hyperion is just cow-milking both its customers and even its developers, giving nothing in exchange.


Hyperion Enticement has given many updates for free over the years,

AmigaOS4.0 updates 1,2,3,4 was all free.

then we paid for AmigaOS4.1

AmigaOS4.1 updates 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 was free.

Then we paied for AmigaOS4.1 Final

And AmigaOS4.1 Final update 1 was again free.

* They created a new update of decenet freespace,
this update was free to all owner of that game.

* They did a updated version of Quake II
this update was also free to all owner of that game.

* Then made two updated of the game Shogo for AmigaOS4.1,
as far as I remember this updates was also free to owners of that game.

If’s really wrong to say they milking the community.
Many of the updates ware released for free to owners AmigaOS4.0 during legal battles with Amiga Inc.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 09:08 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 09:06 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 09:04 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 21:23:06
#86 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11491
From: Norway

@cdimauro

I think it be wise to avoid names like “Workbench”, “Amiga” and other copyrighted brand names and logos, and maybe the OS should be called {newname} OS, something to avoid having to pay the toll booth fee.

Clearly this is not economy variable business for AEON or Hyperion.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 09:24 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 21:23:32
#87 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2186
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga: that's history. What they did in the last years? Nothing!

Customers have already paid for AmigaOS4.2, and never saw it.

Developers worked on the Amiga o.s. 3.4.1, which generated a good cash flow, and got nothing. Same thing will likely happen with the 3.2.

And we know that it has no regular developers anymore: only people which is working on a voluntary base.

So, basically Hyperion is only milking in the last period.

EDIT: I think that I've used the right terms in the correct way.

Last edited by cdimauro on 27-Oct-2020 at 09:24 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 21:39:20
#88 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11491
From: Norway

@cdimauro

This year Hyperion Entertainment

has released nothing at all (only relased the changes logs for 3.1.4.1)

Quote:
What they did in the last years? Nothing!


last year they did

* They did two updates to Shogo.

* They did an update to AmigaOS 3.1.4 with version number 3.1.4.1

This information is available on news page at Hyperion.

So Hyperion lost ExecSG under legal battle with Mike Battilana. The legal costs over years as grinded everything to a holt. It where likely that Mike Battilana will make Hyperion go bankrupt. Then it is guaranteed that X1000 user will never get 4.2 from Hyperion.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 09:46 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 09:45 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 09:42 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 09:40 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 09:39 PM.

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Zylesea 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 21:42:26
#89 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2183
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@amigakit

Quote:

amigakit wrote:
The investment into new hardware is considerable relative to this small ecosystem.



The main fault seems to be to continue the route of a genuine hardware. It adds only cost, but no real benefit. It was all known already years ago.

There were alternatives. My Mac mini does run MorphOS since over a decade now. Costed pocket money, still rock solid. But the OS4 crowd pretended to be "serious busines" and shot themselves in the knee by sinking huge ammounts of money (would could they have done if spent into sw development!) into very little outcome...

And now after all those years a half done sound driver is the best news of the Tabor project. Chapeau!

Last edited by Zylesea on 27-Oct-2020 at 09:51 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 21:45:16
#90 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2186
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@cdimauro

This year Hyperion Entertainment

has released nothing at all (only relased the changes for

Quote:
What they did in the last years? Nothing!


last year they did

* They did two updates to Shogo.

Good for their customers. Did Hyperion paid its developers for this update?
Quote:
* They did an update to AmigaOS 3.1.4 with version number 3.1.4.1

This information is available on news page at Hyperion.

As I said before, the Amiga o.s. 3.1.4 was developed by voluntaries, NOT paid by Hyperion, and the same happened to the 3.1.4.1 update.

So, Hyperion did NOTHING. Again...
Quote:
So Hyperion lost ExecSG under legal battle with Mike Battilana. The legal costs over years as grinded everything to a holt.

This is something new: source?
Quote:
It where likely that Mike Battilana will make Hyperion go bankrupt.

It's possible, but I hope that this will happen due to its customers, which are too much tired and upset.
Quote:
Then it is guaranteed that X1000 user will never get 4.2 from Hyperion

Are you still thinking that Hyperion has some possibility to publish OS4.2 (with ALL features that they celebrated)?

Last edited by cdimauro on 27-Oct-2020 at 09:46 PM.

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bison 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 21:52:49
#91 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1716
From: N-Space

@Zylesea

Quote:
The main fault seems to be to go the route of a genuine hardware.

I see your point, and I agree with you, but... Hyperion has been unwilling (and is likely financially unable) to port OS4.x to amd64 or ARM, so A-EON had no real alternative to PPC.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 21:55:58
#92 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11491
From: Norway

@Zylesea

Also MorphOS team also refused to work with Amiga Inc, they avoid using names like AmigaOS, and Workbench.

They avoided copyright trolls like Mike Battilana.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 09:59 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 09:57 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 22:00:25
#93 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5794
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

they got 3.1.4 for free and selling it expensive

now they get 3.2 for free and again selling it (even to 3.1.4 owners)

I would say that qualifies for milking

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 22:02:50
#94 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11491
From: Norway

@OlafS25

Well considering they are need of monay, it makes sense, anyway the developers who sign up for developer on 3.2 know it is pro bono.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 10:03 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 22:04:23
#95 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5794
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

I several times were in contact with Mike and he is a kind person

I never was in contact with Ben H. or the Frieden brothers but both were posting not very friendly

So I do not understand why you hate Mike but be in love with Ben H.

And Hyperion is totally controlled by Ben H.

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OlafS25 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 22:06:56
#96 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5794
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

yes they do it voluntary (wired world...)

but you always claim Hyperion has some sort of big plan whereas Cloanto has none I would ask which?

Exploting voluntary developers to get something for free and selling it for lots of money is hardly a plan. So which big plan do you see behind Hyperion?

I would like to know too to understand it better

I do not see any

Regarding 3.1.4 and 3.2... without Richter and Bartels doing it for free there would be nothing

no development at all, nowhere

Where is AmigaOS heading? What is the plan to get new users? How to finance the needed developments? Even without the lawsuit there is no income except selling roms for 68k

Last edited by OlafS25 on 27-Oct-2020 at 10:10 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 27-Oct-2020 at 10:08 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 22:10:26
#97 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11491
From: Norway

@OlafS25

Get me right I don’t like Ben H. You know he stole money from Trever I do not support him, Hyperion is not one person.

Frieden brothers are friendly for the most part but easy offended, way they don’t hang around here. Frieden brothers has doing contract work for Hyperion, so far as I know they were never acutely employed.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 10:28 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 27-Oct-2020 at 10:14 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 22:13:13
#98 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5794
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

I saw postings from one of the frieden brothers where one users asked for something and the answer was not very friendly. I do not know which one, as I understand one of them is shy and the other one is the inpolite one

And Hyperion is 95% owned by Ben H. now

Last edited by OlafS25 on 27-Oct-2020 at 10:14 PM.

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Fl@sh 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 22:18:34
#99 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 196
From: Napoli - Italy

@NutsAboutAmiga

A great stupid war around a name.
MorphOS Team has understand long time ago: name is only a name.
It’s important only to make business in retro computing stuff, calling back all old users!
For a new platform development it’s not so important, and now MorphOS in ages forward AmigaOS 4, with a really high quality software and without any cost for legal battles.

Maybe in all this time Hyperion could have do the same, building a completely new OS, with 64bit and SMP and memory protection features:Hyperion OS.
..and eventually at the end of winning legal war rename it as AmigaOS.

Last edited by Fl@sh on 28-Oct-2020 at 09:06 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmiWest 2020: October 24th and 25th
Posted on 27-Oct-2020 22:19:38
#100 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11491
From: Norway

@OlafS25

I believe one of the frieden brothers have struggled with some health problems, can maybe make people emotional.

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