@amigakit

Since Trevor own ExecSG and that many components of AmigaOS 4 can be replaced by Aros why don’t you build your own OS? You can even buy the code to OS 4 developers like you did with Ringhio + your enhanced pack.

@kamelito

Why not use Linux, why not use MacOS, why not use Windows? Why not build your own?

ITV Blind Date Quote:

Quote:

The choice is yours!

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amigakit Quote:

The Enhancer Software doesn’t have any access to the closed source of the OS and that demonstrates that a lot can be developed without it. Sometimes it is better to build new than bolt onto legacy code.

Small niche tech markets usually barely have the resources to keep up with technology and need to charge high enough prices to keep up. The existence of the Enhancer Software is an example where the AmigaOS was *not* able to keep up with technology and now requires 3rd party enhancer software for more modern up to date features which should be part of the AmigaOS.

AmigaOS 4 Final Edition for Classic $34.11
Enhancer Software Plus Edition $68.94
------
$103.05 U.S. total for a somewhat more modern AmigaOS

Users could buy three Raspberry Pis with more modern free OSs for the price of a semi-modern enhanced AmigaOS. Not many OSs sell for this price and it makes it difficult to have cheap hardware when the OS is this expensive.

There are other problems with the Enhancer Software. There is work wasted by reinventing the wheel and reverse engineering which increases costs. Also, the Amiga version system does not support multiple Amiga modules from different developers with the same name. If the Enhancer Software datatypes.library supports streaming and Hyperion upgrades the AmigaOS datatypes.library to the same version number but without streaming, there is a problem. Modules have expected functionality based on the version of the module instead of querying the module for the features it has so missing functionality can easily cause a crash. I appreciate what you are trying to do with the Enhancer Software but AmigaOS development should be from one source.

amigakit Quote:

In fact most of the graphics system that OS4 users rely on is now part of the Enhancer Software. This project has been many thousands of man hours of development over the last five years. So I would suggest there has been a lot of development ongoing in this niche community for some time. The Amiga Developer Team have certainly been busy with six public releases of the Enhancer Software in recent years. This independent project is expanding to increasingly meet the expectations of our customers and fill the development void.

Is the plan to eventually replace Hyperion's AmigaOS? Is there enough Amiga hardware and Enhancer Software sales to fund the "expanding" project?

@kamelito

Quote:

Since Trevor own ExecSG and that many components of AmigaOS 4 can be replaced by Aros why don’t you build your own OS?

Yeah, why don't they? Maybe they are...

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kamelito Quote:

Since Trevor own ExecSG and that many components of AmigaOS 4 can be replaced by Aros why don’t you build your own OS? You can even buy the code to OS 4 developers like you did with Ringhio + your enhanced pack.

BigD and I asked similar questions about the same time. Backup plan for Hyperion MIA?

Was A-Eon sub-licensed all the rights Hyperion was sub-licensed when Hyperion was caught "borrowing" money? If so, A-Eon could use AmigaOS 3.1 as a foundation and add the Enhancer Software on top. Could they lure the AmigaOS 68k developers over to A-Eon? Possession is 9/10 of the law. Maybe Ben's precious isn't much and A-Eon and Amiga Corporation should work together without him. It would be unfortunate to lose parts of AmigaOS 4 but that is Hyperion's fault in handling the developers and he likely can't deliver the code from Hyperion anyway.

@matthey

$34 for an Operating System in such a small market as ours is a poor commercial decision because it doesn’t generate enough revenue to pay for developers. This is partly the reason why core OS4.1 development has stagnated. If you recall 6 years ago the price of OS4.1 was 99 Euro.

You shouldn’t compare the price of a Raspberry Pi to OS4.1. They have little in common. OS4.1 is sold in fractions of the volume of the Pi. The economies of scale are completely different.

Quote:

There are other problems with the Enhancer Software. There is work wasted by reinventing the wheel and reverse engineering which increases costs

The Enhancer Software does not reverse engineer any software. It is written from the ground upwards unless we buy in licences for some components.

The 95 percent bulk of the ticket price of the Enhancer Software is the graphics system development: radeonHD, RadeonRX, Warp3D Nova, OpenGL ES 2.0. Just 5 percent of the remaining cost covers the other items. This is exactly why Hyperion haven’t invested in graphics system: the development costs are significant.

No OS4 developers time are “wasted” by reimplementing system components: this is completed by a separate team with separate cost base. The advantage of the new components are that they get updated frequently, we can release them when we wish to meet customer demand and they can be improved to independently. I think many users can see that even between Enhancer Software releases there are plenty of frequent component updates pushed out on the Updater utility.

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@matthey

1st things 1st. The lawsuits need to be disposed of one way or another.

Communication is paramount and currently none can take place.

#6

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@number6

The Enhancer Software project and Amiga Developer Team are not withheld by any third party legal wrangling. This is the advantage of having an independent code base and product. The software can be updated and released whenever there is customer demand.

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@amigakit

I think you read something into my comment that was not there.

I'm talking about where "focus" is concentrated.

I'm sure your position is clear to everyone regarding your independence.

#6

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@amigakit

Quote:

The Enhancer Software project and Amiga Developer Team are not withheld by any third party legal wrangling... The software can be updated and released whenever there is customer demand.

And of course, the third party legal wrangling limits the appeal of the platform and significantly reduces demand.

Many will argue that Commodore was inept and Amino was clearly incompetent but it's the inertia that is killing the Amiga.

Cant add multi core support though that requires Hyperion programers which have there hands tied while the shity court crap is still going on. Apollos has progress more in the last few months than OS4.1 has in the last few years....

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@g01df1sh

Quote:

g01df1sh wrote: Cant add multi core support though that requires Hyperion programers which have there hands tied while the shitty court crap is still going on. Apollos has progress more in the last few months than OS4.1 has in the last few years....

Really? Which programmers that are employed by Hyperion would these be? You have names and know that they would be working on multi core support if Hyperion were not involved in any lawsuits?

After all, multi core support was announced as a goal for AmigaOS4 way back before the X1000 was released, and it hasn't seemed to be a huge priority to get finished in all the years from then to now. I really don't think that lawsuits are the main problem stopping multi core support from coming to AmigaOS4.

I do agree with you that Apollo guys have made tons more progress in the last year or so, than Hyperion has made on AmigaOS4 over the last decade.

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@kamelito

Quote:

Since Trevor own ExecSG and that many components of AmigaOS 4 can be replaced by Aros why don’t you build your own OS?

Because this wouldn't be AmigaOS. One of the reasons why people stick with OS4 and didn't go MorphOS instead is the legacy. Which is of symbolic value but apparently bears importance here.

And, based on what I read on the Enhancer mailing list, the idea of circumventing Hyperion and building an independent OS would not be supported by the developers and betatesters.

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@g01df1sh

Quote:

Apollos has progress more in the last few months than OS4.1 has in the last few years....

Their raw CPU performance is still bellow CSPPC. Splendid for all "classic" needs, next to unusable for most of "NG" stuff.

@Trixie

I guess with all the changes made over the years writing OS 4 very little Legacy Amiga OS code remains thought, so it’s like Unix vs Linux or AmigaOS vs Aros/Morphos.

@g01df1sh

There is big difference between Natami/Apollo/Vampire Team communism style propaganda of success and real life.
Natami/Apollo/Vampire Team benchmarks are pure bs.
Classic Wunderwaffe by GvB is not so wunder.

I have vampire. It is nice 68k accelerator for Amiga.
It has very fast 2D comparable to cheap pc from Windows 95 era.
It has 100 MHz RAM so it is faster than any 060 accelerator for Amiga.
But raw cpu power is still about 68060 70 MHz.
Without MMU and with not so compatible FPU.
Nice but any ppc for classic Amiga is faster.

@ppcamiga1

Not a vampire owner here, yet let me ask: what’s the point of a PPC card on classic? It runs exactly zero standard apps. You could wire a pentium and it would be the same.

It keeps being mentioned, like a karma thing, but it fits no place. It was a bridge for something that never happened.

FPU is mildly important, though. I hope the vampire team improves it.

MMU is again something that people weaponize only for trolling purposes. Please stop.

Do you believe the 68451 was compatible with the 68551? Or the 68551 compatible with the 030MMU? Or the 030MMU with the 040MMU? Even the 060MMU differs from the 040MMU.

Pro tip: no two generations of the 68K family have the same MMU.

That said, I go back to my 68040. Have a nice day

I am a lifelong amigafan, in the past I had an amiga 500, an amiga 1200 and then an amiga 4000, after the fall of commodore, I followed the survival of the amiga by internet.

Now I own an amigaone X5000 with amigaos 4.1.

The amiga is no longer a model but a brand like Microsoft and Apple, Commodore is dead instead it is the Amiga brand. There is a big difference.

Microsoft sells Windows OS and not Microsoft OS, Apple sells Ios and not Apple OS.

Amiga must sell for example Workbench OS or others and not Amigaos. For the hardware it's the same, Amiga must sell as a computer a model and not the name of its brand.

At the time of Commodore my OS was Workbench OS and not Amiga OS. We changed the name from Workench OS 2.0 to Amigaos 3.5 and the public followed and accepted. We can go back.

Why fight in court for the name Amigaone and Amigaos. If Hyperion wants them, let them keep them.

Frankly in the future you would like to have an Amiga (brand) X6000 (model) with Workbench 5.0 (enhancer software 3.x) or an Amigaone X6000 (model) with Amigaos 4.2 (without enhancer software 3.x).

All this to tell you that I will not hesitate one second to change OS to return to Workbench OS of the Amiga brand and to spend 150/200 euro to have it if it is of quality, if Enhancer Software 3.x is integrated directly in Worhench OS and not separate as in Amiga OS would be a great plus naturally

I repeat, the Amiga is now in 2021 a brand. Please create a computer model and OS different from the brand name, let's evolve.

This message is for all Amigafan, but especially for Amiga Coorporation and A-EON, but not at all for Hyperion.

@Mimifan

it was never workbench OS.

It was the workbench disks.

the part you needed to run games where Kickstart, you need some commands From AmigaDOS.

Workbench was always the desktop environment, basically a file manager with icons.

Also note that command that start “Workbench” is called LoadWB and only at end of startup-sequence its loaded.

Because workbench is basically a program running on AmigaDOS, it’s where easy to replace this is way we have Scalos, and Opus5.

Back in the days on Amiga500 I often never used Workbench because it need a lot of memory, most of time I used AmigaDOS, and some file management program like FileMaster, DiskMaster, CLIMate, or utility disks, that included essential, like XCopy, PowerPacker, FileMaster, LastHope, etc.

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@IridiumFX

Quote:

what’s the point of a PPC card on classic? It runs exactly zero standard apps.

I believe just the right combination; you might have not too bad experience running AmigaOS4.1.
If you don’t then well, you have to deal with the slow buster chip, and lack of PCIe and no whey of connecting modern graphic card, the Amiga hardware is really old and out dated in general.

The Vampire is big step up, not having to deal with bottlenecks, but even compared to Sam440, its going to be slow. But people buy Vampire to run 680x0 software, its for users, not developers, so it’s not a big problem.

I agree MMU and FPU is not that important to run on old outdated software, as most of that do not support this things anyway, but for any modern OS, running on any modern hardware it is essential, why do you think all drama about AmigaONE-A1222 not having standard FPU was all about?

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-May-2021 at 03:14 PM.

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