Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
6071 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
» Home
» Features
» News
» Forums
» Classifieds
» Links
» Downloads
Extras
» OS4 Zone
» IRC Network
» AmigaWorld Radio
» Newsfeed
» Top Members
» Amiga Dealers
Information
» About Us
» FAQs
» Advertise
» Polls
» Terms of Service
» Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
23 crawler(s) on-line.
 151 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 miggymac:  26 mins ago
 Gunnar:  55 mins ago
 pixie:  2 hrs 15 mins ago
 DiscreetFX:  2 hrs 54 mins ago
 DWolfman:  3 hrs 4 mins ago
 cncparts:  4 hrs 37 mins ago
 saipaman4366:  5 hrs 23 mins ago
 Beajar:  5 hrs 42 mins ago
 Rob:  5 hrs 45 mins ago
 agami:  6 hrs 48 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga Emulation
      /  Amiga 1222
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 Next Page )
PosterThread
pavlor 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 27-Apr-2021 16:08:07
#81 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@cgutjahr

Don´t get blinded by hatred (again). Both X1000 and X5000 sold out despite their insane price and laughable performance.

Since when are Amiga users sane?


From my own experience, there is quite a lot of people (far more than the entire Classc/NG community), which like to play with weird electronic toys (RPi is an embodiment of such sentiment). This target market requires only a sensible price (even 500 EUR is too high), lack of general usability is of no issue here.

Quote:
There are multiple reasons for the limited adoption of OS4


MorphOS or AROS should have millions of users then...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rose 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 27-Apr-2021 16:53:51
#82 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 982
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
Both X1000 and X5000 sold out despite their insane price and laughable performance.


When you make em on lots of low hundreds selling em out isnt much of achievement.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
number6 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 27-Apr-2021 17:06:21
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@matthey

Quote:
where A-Eon is producing 500-1000 AmigaOne units every few years


Slight correction. It's been 10 years and the units are still in the hundreds by any and all accounts.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cgutjahr 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 27-Apr-2021 17:21:29
#84 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

Since when are Amiga users sane?

Well, given that you never bought any PPC hardware, you're either sane(ish) or not an Amiga fan.

Given how many are shaking their heads or start laughing whenever the AmigaOne series is mentioned in other forums, a surprising number of them are apparently too sane to buy an AmigaOne.

Quote:

This target market requires only a sensible price

Sensible price, yes. But certainly not "only" that: Hardware that is actually in stock more often than just twice a year for a few weeks would help too. And Hardware that arrives less than three to eight years after its announced would be a good thing.

And while I completely agree with your description of a potential target market for AmigaOS, these people usually lean towards "openness" (for lack of a better word): open source hardware and software, well documented hardware and APIs, collaboration, sharing... None of these adjectives come to mind when thinking about the current Amiga scene.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 27-Apr-2021 17:39:57
#85 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@cgutjahr

Quote:
Well, given that you never bought any PPC hardware, you're either sane(ish) or not an Amiga fan.


With less than 1000 EUR/month, 2000-3000 EUR for "a golden chocolate teapot" (in The Inquirer words) is somewhat more I´m willing to pay. Of course, I could sell my kidney or some of my relatives to slavery... however, I think waiting for Tabor is the best (and least violent) course of action right now.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
BigD 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 27-Apr-2021 18:01:11
#86 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@geen_naam

Quote:
To bad that the X5000/40 and X1000 are not on sale anymore. I would gladly spend another €xxxx to add them to my collection.


The X5000/40 was NEVER on sale, it's just that some beta testers paid to get access to the machine. These lines seem to get very blurred in the land of AmigaNG

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
matthey 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 27-Apr-2021 19:17:14
#87 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1968
From: Kansas

#6 Quote:

Slight correction. It's been 10 years and the units are still in the hundreds by any and all accounts.


If talking about the AmigaOne 1222 specifically, then it would be 5-6 years and a few hundred units at most produced including prototypes. According to the article you linked, Trevor said, "the first commercial production of motherboards which we anticipated would take place in late 2015/early 2016". The first prototypes "were produced in late 2014". Motherboards did not exist before 2014 and CPUs would not have been purchased as Trevor said, "in 2014 we asked Varisys to come up with a design for a cut-down, low cost motherboard to support this market".

geen_naam Quote:

What a complete bullshit discussion. Apparently you don't have hobbies.
I have friends who spend a lot more on fishing gear, cars, bicycles, model trains, audio equipment or koi fish then I spend on my X5000. And who am I to judge them because I don't share the same hobby.


The problem is the software, accessories, community and support that such a small market lacks. Trevor said, "I was still keen on creating an entry level motherboard at a price/performance level to attract more next-generation Amiga users". He realizes the problem and has tried to address it with cheaper niche market hardware, A-Eon software development and supporting development bounties. Niche market Lamborghini accessories aren't going to be available at the local auto parts store, parts are going to be insanely expensive and mechanic support is going to be severely lacking. The problem can't be fixed by putting a cheap mass produced engine in a Lamborghini. The same goes for the AmigaOne 1222 with a cheap and cheapened CPU.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cgutjahr 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 27-Apr-2021 21:53:23
#88 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@geen_naam

Quote:

Get yourself another hobby if you think that AmigaNG is not worth the money

That's exactly what I did - I sold my SAM and got myself another hobby. And so did a lot of other people, apparently - which is exactly the topic we were discussing.

What's your explanation for the current situation, i.e. an OS4 scene that's just a pathetic shadow of what it used to be a decade ago? The complete lack of interest from anybody but the most diehard Amiga(One) fans?

Quote:

I would gladly spend another €xxxx to add them to my collection.

I'm very happy for you and the other three people who think like that. Personally, I'm not a collector of exotic hardware, I'd just like to use AmigaOS. Something the current 'strategy' makes pretty much impossible.

@pavlor:

Apologies, I didn't know about your financial situation. I take everything back, apparently you are insane

Last edited by cgutjahr on 27-Apr-2021 at 09:56 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rose 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 10:46:59
#89 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 982
From: Unknown

@geen_naam

Quote:
Sure, you moved on to another hobby. That's why you still run amiga-news.de and display your bitterness in this thread.


Because Amiga doesn't exist outside of OS4 hardware?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
BigD 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 10:49:28
#90 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@geen_naam

Quote:
Ok, this might come as a shock to you but the Amiga was dead from the moment that commodore went legs up.


Not true, Commodore UK survived the bankruptcy and had a great business plan sucker-punched by Escom and particularly Petro convincing Chinese investors to dump C= UK and back them.

Recently, it hasn't really been a problem of Trevor's strategy of supporting hardware and software development but simply the implementation of the plan; PA-Semi PA6T selection for X1000 and similarly the gimped CPU in the Tabor and then the A1222 Plus no show! The fact we keep throwing good money after bad doesn't help.

The Vampire team and Warp Accelerator teams are showing the way. Small scale fun 68k based projects are the way forward for hobbyists. The AmigaNG scene needs to get more professional or it will grind to a complete halt!

Last edited by BigD on 28-Apr-2021 at 10:52 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
number6 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 13:16:47
#91 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@geen_naam

Quote:
And let's take a look at Aros. It "runs" on x86 hardware. It's been in development for 26 years. Where's the large user-base? Where is the supported x86 hardware? Where are the applications? 26 years of development with on average 3 times more developers then for amigaos4 and it got them nowhere.


You might want to take a look at ApolloOS and Vampire V2.
After all, this is what sparked the book title "Vultures to Vampires" coming from David Pleasance and Trevor Dickinson.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cgutjahr 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 13:32:16
#92 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@geen_naam

Quote:

Sure, you moved on to another hobby. That's why you still run amiga-news.de and display your bitterness in this thread.

The OS4 scene is just a very small part of the Amiga cosmos. Right now, I'm having a ton of fun trying to play through Arabian Nights.

Quote:

Apparently you were not happy with your sam440 either and blame it on a-eon?

I was unhappy with the lack of progress regarding OS4 and all the crap happening behind the scenes.

Instead of addressing these problems, A-EONs involvement cemented them: A-EON solved the one problem OS4 did not have - there was hardware you could buy, and it had decent support from the manufacturer. Yeah, it was stupid hardware - but so is anything A-EON has offered (or completely failed to offer after seven years).

At the same time, the real issues got worse every month.

Quote:

From your previous comments I understand that you would have preferred that amigaos4 would have been ported to an x86 platform.

No, I would have preferred a port to anything but custom hardware - we have spent a decade and a half proving that custom hardware was a stupid idea. And I would have preferred an actual strategy for the OS, something that goes beyond "which mutinous or disappearing developer do we have to replace with an inexperienced but loyal coding slave this week?" and "wait, Ben didn't pay them either? Trevor, you there?".

Quote:

Lol. Ok, this might come as a shock to you but the Amiga was dead from the moment that commodore went legs up.

I've been using AmigaOS as my main workhorse until not too long ago, and so did quite a lot of other people. Aka "the original target audience for OS4".

Quote:

My amiga is my h-o-b-b-y. And hobbies do not need to make sense.

Yeah, that's the new target audience for OS4. And it's just a tiny fraction of the original crowd.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
cgutjahr 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 13:41:25
#93 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@geen_naam

Quote:

No need to call others insane or nutjobs.

Apologies, I'm not a native speaker: I called all of us nutjobs, at least I meant to - I'm as insane as they come. I'm just saying you and your three pals are even more batshit than the rest of us.

Quote:

He wants to run workbench.

No, I have no desire to run Workbench right now. It hasn't been going anywhere since the release of 4.1 in 2008 (?), and shortly after that I lost all hope it might ever recover. Again: I want to get work done with an operating system, not marvel at the shiny new hardware it runs on that has a number of unused CPU cores, a SATA driver that doesn't do DMA and plays HD video only if I convert it to a series of ILBM pictures first.

I want actual progress for the OS and the software running on it. Something that might convince me it might one day be useful again. Right now, it's just held hostage to sell stupid hardware.

Last edited by cgutjahr on 28-Apr-2021 at 01:43 PM.
Last edited by cgutjahr on 28-Apr-2021 at 01:42 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
noXLar 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 14:12:28
#94 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-May-2003
Posts: 736
From: Norway

@cgutjahr

Absurd maybe, fits nicely for alot of hobbies many have. and this was made made possible because of Trevor trying his best he can to help his dream computer get somwhere and have fun.
It was always known he wouldn't get back his investment. but a fiasco? hardly.. he succeeded by bringing products out for people to buy, and he is committed getting software for the platform, this is damn insane in Amiga world. Things are progressing, not very fast, but something is being done thanks for the A-eon's & co initiate, and all the programmers & users still there, enjoying the system. yea, he was not so lucky with the cheap AmigaOne option. Maybe the reasons is cpu/fpu, other components, os4,Hyperion,Cloanto, lack of programmers or even money., what ever it is, the guy don't give up.. it's his hobby, everything amiga is his passion.

And this might be absurd to you because you rather like something else instead?
Accept it and move on. Let Trevor and users using the system and have fun.
He should be recognized for all he has done, i love my 460ex & X1000. (i do have mac mini + morph os and A1200 asweel)
I guess you wanted another direction for Trevor's investment or OS4, since you so negative for anything related os4 for years and years, and you not the only one not helping out. I wonder how Trevor getting his motivation from..

Anyway, stop being so negative and help instead. If no one ever received constructive criticism, things would take a lot longer to improve. I always envied people who can graciously accept constructive criticism. Being negative doesn't help anyone.

_________________
nox's in the house!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Everblue 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 15:04:30
#95 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Posts: 678
From: Amigaland

I understand that Trevor wanted (or wants) to do his own thing, it is his money after all.

I do have some questions, perhaps someone can illuminate me:

- why release expensive machines first (X1000) and then (some day, if ever) the A1222, instead of other way round, or in parallel? Releasing the A1222 first would have allowed the whole thing to grow and gain an audience

- what is the point of super expensive machines (again, X1000 and X5000) with features that will never be supported by Amiga OS, making them extra expensive for no extra value?

- instead of splashing all that money like this, why wasn't money used simultaneously to develop more affordable hardware (with reachable features) and contribute towards improving the OS, and most importantly, create new productivity software? (visual enhancements for desktop are nice but they are not system sellers, not even for a hobby machine)

I understand that there are technical, legal reasons for all this - but it is a pity that nearly 12 years after the release X1000 we are pretty much where we were then.

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 15:30:29
#96 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@cgutjahr

Quote:
Apologies, I didn't know about your financial situation.


Well, most people here earn even less, so I´m quite rich.


That is why low hardware price is so important. Back in 2002/2003/2004 Pegasos became de-facto NG Amiga standard in my country, because it was significantly cheaper than then AmigaOne. Our OS4 community expanded only thanks to the cheap SAM440ep. I expect Amiga communities in other Central/Eastern European countries are in similar condition money-wise. Amiga users around here are still quite young (most in the early 40s), unlike Western Europe or even US, so they may form - literally - viable basis for further grow.

Last edited by pavlor on 28-Apr-2021 at 03:31 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
number6 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 15:34:06
#97 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@pavlor

Case in point. Poland's attempted bulk buy when it was still called tabor.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Everblue 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 16:01:15
#98 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Posts: 678
From: Amigaland

@geen_naam
Fair enough, but still I don't understand how you can build the ultimate AmigaOne if most of the features on offered are not catered for by OS (and software). I think the biggest problem here is the lack of understanding that in order to be successful hardware, OS and software have to be designed hand in hand.

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
number6 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 28-Apr-2021 16:22:19
#99 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@Everblue

Actually that was one of the points of the X1000 project.
A-eon V1 included Ben and was hoped to work hand in hand.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Everblue 
Re: Amiga 1222
Posted on 29-Apr-2021 8:34:24
#100 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Posts: 678
From: Amigaland

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@Everblue

Actually that was one of the points of the X1000 project.
A-eon V1 included Ben and was hoped to work hand in hand.

#6


Yeah, that is exactly why I thought there are "politics" involved.

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle