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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
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Poll : What would you pay for a AOS 4.X Pi license?
0 to 50 US
50 to 100 US
100 to 150 US
150 and above
Bisquick !
 
PosterThread
Trekiej 
Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 20-May-2021 19:19:36
#1 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 854
From: Unknown

I was wondering how many would like to see AOS 4.X ported to Raspberry PI.

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matthey 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 20-May-2021 20:23:32
#2 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 971
From: Kansas


AmigaOS 4.x 99€ (old price reflecting true development cost according to AmigaKit)
P96 10€ (since P96 is only licensed for PPC)
Enhancer Software Plus with 3D driver 57.45€ (Hyperion no longer develops 3D drivers)
RoadShow 25€ (no TCP/IP stack in AmigaOS 3.2 so assuming license was only for PPC also)
---------------------
Total: 191.45€ ($233.93 U.S.)

Amiga users would probably be excited to pay nearly 7 times the price of the $35 U.S. hardware for an AmigaOS which doesn't support SMP or 64 bit and has practically no natively running software on ARM. The Amiga used to be about value and efficiency.

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Trekiej 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 20-May-2021 20:29:41
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 854
From: Unknown

@matthey

Thanks, cool reflection.

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OldAmigan 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 20-May-2021 20:38:05
#4 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Dec-2003
Posts: 648
From: Dumfries, Scotland

@Trekiej

I'd love to see it on the Pi but what matthey said certainly is a sobering thought

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bison 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 20-May-2021 21:19:56
#5 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1819
From: N-Space

@Trekiej

0 to 50, but... I'd rather have it hosted on Linux so I can run a modern web browser on the same desktop.

Last edited by bison on 20-May-2021 at 09:20 PM.

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Trekiej 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 20-May-2021 21:24:29
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 854
From: Unknown

@matthey

Looks like we could use an investor.

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g01df1sh 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 20-May-2021 23:28:47
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1723
From: UK

I would like to see it on Arm but not pi. I want a real mini itx board with normal power supply options and space for expansion.

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Trekiej 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 21-May-2021 5:02:23
#8 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 854
From: Unknown

@Trekiej

I think it is honorable that folks are taking this more serious and not fighting.
Maybe AOS3.2 news is new sedative.

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outrun1978 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 21-May-2021 6:30:48
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 593
From: Unknown

@Trekiej

Someone should just do it. There is clear money to be made in a port of Amiga OS 4 to a Raspberry Pi 4/400.

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BigD 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 21-May-2021 9:00:47
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5724
From: UK

@outrun1978

RiscOS is on the Pi already. What would AmigaOS bring to the party that RiscOS doesn’t already?

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 21-May-2021 9:12:28
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11694
From: Norway

@Trekiej

“I think it is honorable that folks are taking this more serious”

Only because you did not ask if this can be done, from technical point, is likely to be done, or going to be done, this time you did not demand someone to do it.

I simply answer the question, as if Hyperion has already done it, despite all technical challenges, despite having to push SMP and 64BIT support to the side, or having to stop the work on supporting upcoming PowerPC solution, etc. because that is what it will take, it require complete refocus of all development efforts. It will halt any progress on more technical important features, it also require a agreement with Trever about it, as he owns the kernel now.

So far they earn 1.850,- USD, if all the people who says they are going buy it, are buying it, if it was available.

How many developers will they be able get to work full time for that money

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-May-2021 at 01:35 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-May-2021 at 09:48 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-May-2021 at 09:17 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-May-2021 at 09:15 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-May-2021 at 09:14 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 21-May-2021 12:11:02
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5850
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

You mean progress even more slowly than now?

There are no resources for any ISA change and you are right... first AOS should fully support the hardware that is available and already supported. But even that is not very propable except there is a big investor with millions of dollars

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outrun1978 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 21-May-2021 12:58:10
#13 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 593
From: Unknown

@BigD

RiscOS isn't most people's cup of tea and it certainly isn't mine.
Besides AmigaOS on Raspberry Pi would mean that you finally get your hands on a Next Gen machine.

The answer should be obvious to anyone serious about making money from Amiga related items. cheap accessible hardware = more users = more licences sold = more software = more interest = more people brought on board...

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BigD 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 21-May-2021 13:07:17
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5724
From: UK

@outrun1978

The way I see it is that AmigaOS 4.x is technically sold at a loss at the moment, it's just that the developers don't often accept payment from Hyperion so they have no problem selling at such a low value! All modern-ish features come from Enhancer. The ONLY room for profit is therefore from the hardware and extra software not from the OS itself (mirrored in the mainstream where all major OSes are now free).

The Raspberry Pi ISA change would cost a lot of money and take away the ability for A-EON to make a profit other than joint AmigaKit software projects like the Amistore! While great for the users I don't think RISC OS on the Pi led to anyone getting rich and neither will an AmigaOS port. Expensive hardware dongles ARE the AmigaOS way! If you can't cope with that then use AROS or AmigaOS classic (i.e. Workbench as we used to call it)!

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 21-May-2021 15:38:44
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9223
From: Unknown

@Trekiej

Improving PPC emulation in WinUAE would make far more sense than port to another CPU architecture.

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Trekiej 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 21-May-2021 17:02:21
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Oct-2006
Posts: 854
From: Unknown

@Trekiej

I wonder if a quick fix would be Amiga OS 4.X on WinUAE with full acceleration.

edit:

of FS-UAE, or qemu.

Last edited by Trekiej on 21-May-2021 at 06:12 PM.

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hth313 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 21-May-2021 17:48:39
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-May-2018
Posts: 158
From: Delta, Canada

@BigD

Is Windows free now? Last time I checked they wanted money for it, maybe you do not regarded a mainstream major OS.

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matthey 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 21-May-2021 23:07:15
#18 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 971
From: Kansas

BigD Quote:

RiscOS is on the Pi already. What would AmigaOS bring to the party that RiscOS doesn’t already?


Preemptive Multitasking
more software especially games (no 26 bit addressing incompatibility)
smaller memory footprint

RISC OS review Quote:

So many good things I could say about this but they are outweighed by the bad ones.

* Way faster than Linux every Linux on cheap hardware like a Pi Zero and uses far fewer resources.

* Entire OS with GUI fits in a TWO gigabyte SD card and boots in just seconds.

* Will smoke Linux+GUI on a Pi Zero at pretty much everything.

Major cons:

* Has all of the flaws of old software with none of the charm.

* The GUI looks like it belongs in the early-mid 90s.

* Only runs in a single process on a single core. Your multi-core ARM won't be any faster than a single, everything else being equal but Amdahl's law applies.

* Single thread, cooperative multi-tasking means a single stuck process or something waiting for input can bring it to its knees.

* Plings are (a) still called plings and (b) they're visible in the GUI in much the same way as .exe, .com, .bat were in very early versions of Windows.

* Very few developers. A real shame as this could and should have been used for those uber-cheap OLPC devices as it's way faster than Linux on cheap hardware and uses far fewer resources.

* Best suited to boards like the Rpi Zero or Zero W but doesn't support the WiFi and I was unable to find any USB Ethernet adaptors that work (although presumably something does for the Pi 2/3 to work.


https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=risc

This may be an embedded developer evaluating RISC OS for the Pi Zero (most normal users would pay for a full Pi). The reviewer was impressed by the lightweight features on low end hardware but there were more drawbacks than the AmigaOS. There is now a cut down RISC OS Pico for even lower end hardware than the Pi Zero which is the new Pi Pico.

The Amiga 1000 had 256kiB of memory and 256kiB of WCS (pre-ROM) in 1985. The most minimal RISC OS hardware was the Archimedes A305 with 512kiB of memory and 512kiB of ROM introduced in 1987. Modern versions of RISC OS use a 4MiB Flash (post-ROM) while I couldn't find any minimum memory requirement. AmigaOS 3.2 68k uses a 512kiB kickstart (ROM or flash) and requires 2MiB of memory likely without much effort to reduced the footprint. Most of the modules are likely still compiled for the 68000 instead of 68020 even though most are run on 68020 capable systems. Compilers for the 68k were barely better than average at best and code generation quality has deteriorated in most compilers which still support the 68k. It looks like the AmigaOS 68k footprint is smaller than that of RISC OS using ARM but this may not be the case of AmigaOS using ARM although it would almost certainly be better than most Linux distributions.

Quote:

The way I see it is that AmigaOS 4.x is technically sold at a loss at the moment, it's just that the developers don't often accept payment from Hyperion so they have no problem selling at such a low value! All modern-ish features come from Enhancer. The ONLY room for profit is therefore from the hardware and extra software not from the OS itself (mirrored in the mainstream where all major OSes are now free).

The Raspberry Pi ISA change would cost a lot of money and take away the ability for A-EON to make a profit other than joint AmigaKit software projects like the Amistore! While great for the users I don't think RISC OS on the Pi led to anyone getting rich and neither will an AmigaOS port. Expensive hardware dongles ARE the AmigaOS way! If you can't cope with that then use AROS or AmigaOS classic (i.e. Workbench as we used to call it)!


Both the AmigaOS and hardware together need to be competitive on features and price in some market for Amiga to proliferate. "Expensive hardware dongles" are not the answer. Costs for developing an OS can be spread out but this requires volume sales which are highly unlikely on hardware which the OS does not come on. Think how much OS development could be funded with just 5% of the sales of 1,000,000 Pis per year ($35x.05x1,000,000=$1,750,000) compared to 50% of the AmigaOS sale price for 1000 AmigaOnes per year ($120x.50x1000=$60,000). Good luck getting users to change the OS of their hardware in mass especially with noncompetitive features. The way to do it is to go where the AmigaOS is more competitive (small footprint hardware) and make mass produced custom hardware which includes the AmigaOS. Of course this would require investment and cooperation unheard of in Amiga circles.

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cdimauro 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 22-May-2021 10:20:51
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2252
From: Germany

@BigD Quote:

BigD wrote:
@outrun1978

The Raspberry Pi ISA change would cost a lot of money and take away the ability for A-EON to make a profit other than joint AmigaKit software projects like the Amistore! While great for the users I don't think RISC OS on the Pi led to anyone getting rich and neither will an AmigaOS port. Expensive hardware dongles ARE the AmigaOS way!

I think differently. An Amiga-/like o.s port to a RPi can led not only to profits, but a great increasing of the Amiga base & support.

The Amiga o.s. wins hands down against RISC OS: there's no competition at all. See what Matt has written.
Quote:
If you can't cope with that then use AROS or AmigaOS classic (i.e. Workbench as we used to call it)!

And that's another true thing: the port to RPi was a great missed opportunity for AROS.

@pavlor Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@Trekiej

Improving PPC emulation in WinUAE would make far more sense than port to another CPU architecture.

Better to improve QEMU, instead. OS4 and MorphOS already run on the pure QEMU, without the burden of the Amiga custom chips emulation.

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga OS 4.X and Raspberry Pi Poll
Posted on 22-May-2021 10:46:16
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9223
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

Quote:
Better to improve QEMU, instead. OS4 and MorphOS already run on the pure QEMU, without the burden of the Amiga custom chips emulation.


In theory, yes. However, from end user POV WinUAE is far more mature for OS4. That being said, improving PowerPC CPU emulation speed (QEMU) would certainly help.

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