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      /  Back when Ben was the White Knight!
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Lou 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 30-Jun-2021 13:44:25
#81 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4135
From: Rhode Island

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote:
Hammer Quote:

SNES needs 2nd gen Super FX at 21 Mhz to render cutdown Doom.
https://youtu.be/784MUbDoLjQ?t=1119
DF Retro: Doom - Every Console Port Tested and Analysed!


The CD32 can almost run Doom as well as the SNES.

I have a CD32 with SX-32 and RAM. It does not run GLOOM anywhere near as good as an SNES w/SuperFX2 runs DOOM.

Also, the DOOM that the SNES version runs is the PC version, not the geometrically cut down version made for the Jaguar and other consoles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pid5joubrPo

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BigD 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 30-Jun-2021 14:10:16
#82 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6190
From: UK

@Lou

Quote:
I have a CD32 with SX-32 and RAM. It does not run GLOOM anywhere near as good as an SNES w/SuperFX2 runs DOOM.


That strikes me as a weird comparison. The Amiga couldn't do these types of games without at least an 030 although it gave Alien Breed 3D a fair go on the 68020 14Mhz with its optimised blitter-utilising screenmode. The SuperFX2 grunt and SNES graphics tech (Mode 7 etc) was more than a match for a 68000 or 68020 AGA Amiga generally. Again Guardian AGA/CD32 needs an 030 to run smoothly throughout. Starfox was smooth as I recall though on-rails

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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Hypex 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 30-Jun-2021 15:43:06
#83 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10547
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Lou

Quote:
So AKIKO became a way to cost-reduce the Amiga. I imagine moving the 'code' into one chip package actually ends up saving some space due to elimination of redundancy of having separate chips. It also by default adds CDTV+CD32 compatibility. People seem to ignore its other functions other than C2P... /sigh


In that case the most used functions are the least mentioned. Useful in the CD32. But in the Vampire, or at least in the SA, extra functions for CDTV+CD32 compatibility are redundant. Since you can't plug a disc drive in as standard. Or a disk. One of the few new Amiga machines where it was acceptable to not only lack Amiga floppy compatibilty but lack any way to plug in a drive. Unless it was SD.

Quote:
The tests are in. AKIKO is a performance boost. You can go on about overhead all you want but as I have said many times, doing it all in the CPU is hubris and not the true Amiga-way. The CELL processor in the PS3 is a perfect example of such a failure. In the end it still needed the NVIDIA gpu.


The proper way would have been a packed pixel mode. Surely they could have added that in? Or created a copper mode that disabled bitmap and read pixel data from a copper list. I mean, both the copper and Paula data was in some form of chunky or direct byte format it read in fine a word at a time, so I really see no excuse for not adding chunky modes. Just to kick the Amiga in the nuts more, Atari's answer to the A1200, the Falcon, did one better and featured 16-bit pixel chunky modes!



Quote:
If you don't know that the '080 is dual-threaded then I guess you haven't been paying much attention.


But what does that actually mean? The 080 is a virtual CPU running in an FPGA. What is a thread inside an FPGA?

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Lou 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 30-Jun-2021 17:55:49
#84 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4135
From: Rhode Island

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
I have a CD32 with SX-32 and RAM. It does not run GLOOM anywhere near as good as an SNES w/SuperFX2 runs DOOM.


That strikes me as a weird comparison. The Amiga couldn't do these types of games without at least an 030 although it gave Alien Breed 3D a fair go on the 68020 14Mhz with its optimised blitter-utilising screenmode. The SuperFX2 grunt and SNES graphics tech (Mode 7 etc) was more than a match for a 68000 or 68020 AGA Amiga generally. Again Guardian AGA/CD32 needs an 030 to run smoothly throughout. Starfox was smooth as I recall though on-rails

It wasn't me that made the comparison.

Matthey said CD32 runs Doom as good as SNES... A side question would be to also qualify what dimension of reality he was perceiving this in...

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Lou 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 30-Jun-2021 17:57:12
#85 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4135
From: Rhode Island

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote:


Quote:
If you don't know that the '080 is dual-threaded then I guess you haven't been paying much attention.


But what does that actually mean? The 080 is a virtual CPU running in an FPGA. What is a thread inside an FPGA?

Ask Gunnar! He'll be happy to explain it to you!

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matthey 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 30-Jun-2021 22:31:42
#86 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1459
From: Kansas

Lou Quote:

Also, the DOOM that the SNES version runs is the PC version, not the geometrically cut down version made for the Jaguar and other consoles.


The SNES Doom port started with the PC version but it is cut down big time!

SNES Doom runs in 256x224 resolution with a black border around the outside where the Amiga low resolution is 320x200 NTSC and 320x256 PAL.

SNES effective canvas size 108x144 = 15552 pixels
SNES canvas size 216x144 = 31104 pixels
SNES resolution 256x224 = 57344 pixels
Amiga NTSC 320x200 = 64000 pixels
Amiga PAL 320x256 = 81920 pixels

SNES Doom renders with half vertical resolution.

Quote:

For you technical junkies, Doom on the SNES used 216144 pixels for the 3D canvas, using halved vertical resolution (columns are rendered twice, effectively making the canvas 108144 pixels), at 10 frames per second on average. Many levels had to be cut in order to fit the game on a cartridge, as were most of the monster poses and sound effects. Floors and ceilings had to be rendered as solid colors to increase rendering speed.


https://bloody-disgusting.com/video-games/3623985/source-code-snes-port-doom-released/

The SNES Doom engine had to be rewritten and calculates less than half the pixels of Doom running in 320x200 like the Amiga would use. Ceilings and floors are a solid color. Enemies always face forward and have much simplified AI. Many levels had to be cut.

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Super_NES

It is impressive that the SNES version of Doom is as playable as it is but it is *not* the PC version.

Lou Quote:

Matthey said CD32 runs Doom as good as SNES... A side question would be to also qualify what dimension of reality he was perceiving this in...


Did you watch the video I showed with a CD32 running Doom?

matthey Quote:

The CD32 can almost run Doom as well as the SNES.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5N8F1egmNc

With some display reduction and tweaking, the CD32 may have been capable of as good of port as the SNES and 3DO Doom ports. With a 68030 and fast memory, a CD32 Doom could have been better than the Sega Saturn and Atari Jaguar ports of Doom. A 68030 was low enough cost it could have been used in the CD32.


The CD32 resolution is 320x200 so it is pushing roughly twice as many pixels as the SNES 216x144 canvas size and about four times as many pixels if using the SNES Doom effective canvas size of 108x144 pixels due to halved vertical resolution by rendering columns twice. The Amiga version has ceiling and floor textures, full animations, full enemy AI and full levels of the PC version unlike the SNES Doom port. The CD32 on the right in the video is using the original 68020@14MHz with a 8MiB fast memory upgrade. A CD32 with 68030@28MHz and 4MiB fast memory would have likely allowed to play a full Doom in 320x200 resolution with a frame rate better than the cut down version SNES Doom which is only about 10 fps. A stock CD32 could likely play a cut down version of Doom better than the SNES Doom too.

You can keep trolling if you want but it will just make you look more like a fool.

Last edited by matthey on 30-Jun-2021 at 10:35 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 30-Jun-2021 22:52:15
#87 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6190
From: UK

@matthey

Quote:
The CD32 on the right in the video is using the original 68020@14MHz with a 8MiB fast memory upgrade. A CD32 with 68030@28MHz and 4MiB fast memory would have likely allowed to play a full Doom in 320x200 resolution with a frame rate better than the cut down version SNES Doom which is only about 10 fps. A stock CD32 could likely play a cut down version of Doom better than the SNES Doom too.


But the CD32 couldn't be upgraded to 8MiB of fast ram cheaply and the user base was such that a cut down version would never have been green lit considering the extra development costs and optimisations needed. Since the CD32 doesn't run a cut down version we'll never know if it could have done a better job than the SNES. What is known is that it was possible to stuff extra processing chips in a cartridge to relatively cheaply and easily boost games that needed boosting.

In the Amiga's defence, Alien Breed 3D had a 2-player null-modem mode and Doom SNES didn't! But I don't believe the CD32 version contains the 2-player game mode

We'll call it a technical draw but since ADoom didn't arrive until very late 1997. The SNES wins!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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Lou 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 1-Jul-2021 0:23:49
#88 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4135
From: Rhode Island

@matthey

Are you on criz-nack?
The CD32 was running at about 3 fps and the stretch-factor was 3....which means the rendering resolution is closer to 100x60...

With the TF330 ACCELERATOR it was playable-ish.

I'm not saying the core resolution of the SNES was any better, but there is a world of difference between 3fps and 10fps...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pid5joubrPo

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matthey 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 1-Jul-2021 0:25:35
#89 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1459
From: Kansas

BigD Quote:

But the CD32 couldn't be upgraded to 8MiB of fast ram cheaply and the user base was such that a cut down version would never have been green lit considering the extra development costs and optimisations needed. Since the CD32 doesn't run a cut down version we'll never know if it could have done a better job than the SNES. What is known is that it was possible to stuff extra processing chips in a cartridge to relatively cheaply and easily boost games that needed boosting.


4 MiB of fast memory may have been enough. Doom for the PC required 8MiB but the 68k Amiga is a better memory miser. ADoom was allocating 4-5 MiB for "zone management". If a single large chunk is not needed, it may be possible to stick some of the data in chip memory or load some from disk as needed but this makes porting more difficult. A cut down CD32 Doom version may have been as simple as reducing the rendering canvas and adding some optimizations. I don't think it needs nearly as much as the SNES version. The CD32 has a significantly more powerful CPU and more memory than the SNES which other hardware, even on a cartridge, has a difficult time overcoming.

The CD32 could have had a PCMCIA slot like the Amiga 1200 which could have been used to add memory if it was undesirable to open the case. The logic to support a PCMCIA slot was likely already in the Akiko chip. A SIMM socket could have been added internally as well. CBM was bad about providing the slowest possible 68k CPU, slowest memory and fewest expansion options possible.

BigD Quote:

In the Amiga's defence, Alien Breed 3D had a 2-player null-modem mode and Doom SNES didn't! But I don't believe the CD32 version contains the 2-player game mode


SNES Doom actually supports networked play.

BigD Quote:

We'll call it a technical draw but since ADoom didn't arrive until very late 1997. The SNES wins!


No. The CD32 wins the technical battle while the SNES wins the financial and marketing battle.

CD32
Motorola 68EC020 @ 14.32 MHz (NTSC), 14.18 MHz (PAL) (32 bit, 256B ICache, 32 bit data bus)
2 MiB chip memory

SNES
Ricoh 5A22 @ 3.58 MHz (enhanced 16 bit 6502 accumulator CPU but still only 8 bit data bus)
128 kiB general purpose memory and 64 kiB VRAM for video and audio

The SNES custom hardware, cartridge ROM space and hardware, fast memory and audio DSP help but the CD32 has custom Amiga AGA chips with Akiko and a CD-ROM drive which helps too. The SNES is a 8/16 bit console and the CD32 is a 16/32 bit console with enough advantage to win even though CBM could have easily, and with little additional cost, unbottled the CD32.

Last edited by matthey on 01-Jul-2021 at 01:21 AM.
Last edited by matthey on 01-Jul-2021 at 01:19 AM.

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matthey 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 1-Jul-2021 1:01:06
#90 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1459
From: Kansas

Lou Quote:

Are you on criz-nack?
The CD32 was running at about 3 fps and the stretch-factor was 3....which means the rendering resolution is closer to 100x60...


It's slow. Probably 3-5 fps but it is pushing significantly more pixels than the SNES version of Doom, is playing the full version of Doom and looks much better. The SNES port of Doom is a professionally rewritten and optimized rendering engine for the SNES reduced to a blurry mess that is almost playable when it is possible to make out what the blurs are.

Lou Quote:

With the TF330 ACCELERATOR it was playable-ish.


It is more playable than most of the hardware that Doom was played on when it came out. This is maybe 10-15 fps which is playable except for the fps snobs today. The display size could be reduced one notch for a little better fps. It is already faster and looks better than the SNES, Jaguar, 3DO and Saturn console professional Doom ports.

Last edited by matthey on 01-Jul-2021 at 01:07 AM.

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Lou 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 1-Jul-2021 1:18:32
#91 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4135
From: Rhode Island

@matthey

blowing up a low res image to 3940x2160 isn't a win if you can't play the game.

Just like Gunnar you change the measurement rules to claim superiority.

Fact of the matter is the SNES is pushing more FPS and by definition more pixels per second.

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matthey 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 1-Jul-2021 2:56:12
#92 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1459
From: Kansas

Lou Quote:

Fact of the matter is the SNES is pushing more FPS and by definition more pixels per second.


Technically, the SNES cartridge has a board with a processor which is similar to a CD32 accelerator board with a processor. The CD32 board has the advantage it can work with more than one game though. Since we are counting add on boards with processors, I'll take a CD32 add on board with a 68060. The TF360 and 128 MiB of memory should put the competition to rest.

TF360 Prototype - The Fastest Amiga CD32 Ever!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXxYmfMnkEc

Doom and Quake shown in the video since the CD32 and SNES are on an even playing field now.

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Hammer 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 1-Jul-2021 3:26:08
#93 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4271
From: Australia

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
I have a CD32 with SX-32 and RAM. It does not run GLOOM anywhere near as good as an SNES w/SuperFX2 runs DOOM.


That strikes me as a weird comparison. The Amiga couldn't do these types of games without at least an 030 although it gave Alien Breed 3D a fair go on the 68020 14Mhz with its optimised blitter-utilising screenmode. The SuperFX2 grunt and SNES graphics tech (Mode 7 etc) was more than a match for a 68000 or 68020 AGA Amiga generally. Again Guardian AGA/CD32 needs an 030 to run smoothly throughout. Starfox was smooth as I recall though on-rails

68020 and 68030 have similar IPC, hence 68020 @ 25 to 33 Mhz clock speed is comparable to 68030 at similar clock speeds.

A1200/CD32's 68EC020 @ 14 Mhz almost double its compute performance with a fast ram setup.

A1200/CD32's 2MB Chip Ram wasn't balanced with CPU compute's Fast Ram configuration.

SuperFX2 is a 16 bit RISC DSP that has a 21.477 Mhz clock speed. Being a RISC design, 1 MIPS has 1 Mhz match. Two INT16s would equal a single INT32. SuperFX2 being off-chip from the main CPU introduces some latency.

68030 at 50 Mhz with ~10 MIPS INT32 would be comparable without factoring SuperFX2 off-chip latency.


_________________
Ryzen 7 5800X, DDR4-3600 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 3080 Ti
Ryzen 9 3900X, DDR4-3200 32 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 3080 Ti
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, TF1260, 68060 @ 63 Mhz, 128 MB)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, KS 3.2, 68K 50Mhz, 12 MB RAM)

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Hammer 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 1-Jul-2021 3:30:53
#94 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4271
From: Australia

@Lou

Quote:

I have a CD32 with SX-32 and RAM. It does not run GLOOM anywhere near as good as an SNES w/SuperFX2 runs DOOM.

Also, the DOOM that the SNES version runs is the PC version, not the geometrically cut down version made for the Jaguar and other consoles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pid5joubrPo


SNES Doom without floor and sky/roof texture render reminds me of Amiga 500's Dread. :p

https://youtu.be/DvRxpxVRdEg?t=594
Amiga 500's Dread.

Last edited by Hammer on 01-Jul-2021 at 03:31 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 7 5800X, DDR4-3600 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 3080 Ti
Ryzen 9 3900X, DDR4-3200 32 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 3080 Ti
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, TF1260, 68060 @ 63 Mhz, 128 MB)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, KS 3.2, 68K 50Mhz, 12 MB RAM)

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Lou 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 1-Jul-2021 3:35:37
#95 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4135
From: Rhode Island

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote:
Lou Quote:

Fact of the matter is the SNES is pushing more FPS and by definition more pixels per second.


Technically, the SNES cartridge has a board with a processor which is similar to a CD32 accelerator board with a processor. The CD32 board has the advantage it can work with more than one game though. Since we are counting add on boards with processors, I'll take a CD32 add on board with a 68060. The TF360 and 128 MiB of memory should put the competition to rest.

TF360 Prototype - The Fastest Amiga CD32 Ever!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXxYmfMnkEc

Doom and Quake shown in the video since the CD32 and SNES are on an even playing field now.

Nobody is buying your story.

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Hammer 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 1-Jul-2021 5:46:14
#96 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4271
From: Australia

@Lou
Quote:

Lou wrote:
@matthey

Nobody is buying your story.


I support most of Matt's arguments.

SNES Doom is a cutdown version in a similar approach to A500's Dread.

John Carmack is a hypocrite to allow a cutdown 16-bit console version while condemning the Amiga.

John Carmack's statement against the Amiga platform has caused significant damage to it.

If AW.net was Twitter, I would say #$%^& at John Carmack.

Last edited by Hammer on 01-Jul-2021 at 05:46 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 7 5800X, DDR4-3600 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 3080 Ti
Ryzen 9 3900X, DDR4-3200 32 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 3080 Ti
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, TF1260, 68060 @ 63 Mhz, 128 MB)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, KS 3.2, 68K 50Mhz, 12 MB RAM)

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Hammer 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 1-Jul-2021 6:46:38
#97 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4271
From: Australia

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote:
Lou Quote:

Fact of the matter is the SNES is pushing more FPS and by definition more pixels per second.


Technically, the SNES cartridge has a board with a processor which is similar to a CD32 accelerator board with a processor. The CD32 board has the advantage it can work with more than one game though. Since we are counting add on boards with processors, I'll take a CD32 add on board with a 68060. The TF360 and 128 MiB of memory should put the competition to rest.

TF360 Prototype - The Fastest Amiga CD32 Ever!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXxYmfMnkEc

Doom and Quake shown in the video since the CD32 and SNES are on an even playing field now.

CBM, AMIGA Technologies GmbH (Escom) and Motorola/Freescale didn't transition 68040 and 68060 into mainstream replacements for 68000 and 68020.

No 68K based platform vendor has transitioned 68040 and 68060 into mainstream replacements for 68000.


Last edited by Hammer on 01-Jul-2021 at 06:48 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 7 5800X, DDR4-3600 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 3080 Ti
Ryzen 9 3900X, DDR4-3200 32 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 3080 Ti
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, TF1260, 68060 @ 63 Mhz, 128 MB)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, KS 3.2, 68K 50Mhz, 12 MB RAM)

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Hammer 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 1-Jul-2021 6:56:20
#98 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4271
From: Australia

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote:

The proper way would have been a packed pixel mode. Surely they could have added that in? Or created a copper mode that disabled bitmap and read pixel data from a copper list. I mean, both the copper and Paula data was in some form of chunky or direct byte format it read in fine a word at a time, so I really see no excuse for not adding chunky modes. Just to kick the Amiga in the nuts more, Atari's answer to the A1200, the Falcon, did one better and featured 16-bit pixel chunky modes!

In a Commodore-like mentiality, Jack Tramiel gimped Atari Falcon with a 16 bit memory bus.

_________________
Ryzen 7 5800X, DDR4-3600 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 3080 Ti
Ryzen 9 3900X, DDR4-3200 32 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 3080 Ti
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, TF1260, 68060 @ 63 Mhz, 128 MB)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, KS 3.2, 68K 50Mhz, 12 MB RAM)

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matthey 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 1-Jul-2021 7:25:27
#99 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1459
From: Kansas

Hammer Quote:

SNES Doom is a cutdown version in a similar approach to A500's Dread.


The SNES Doom engine is likely more advanced than the Dread engine but suffers from low resolution more than Dread. Dread looks closer to a Wolfenstein engine but a little more advanced. The Amiga 68000 CPU is actually a better comparison to the SNES CPU.

Ricoh 5A22 @ 3.58MHz (based on 65C816 which is a 16 bit version of the 6502)
accumulator architecture - 16 bit ALU, 8 bit data bus, 24 bit address bus
16 bit Accumulator, X index, Y index and SP registers
no caches
no hardware multiplication or division instructions

68000 @ 7.16MHz
CISC reg-mem architecture- 16 bit ALU, 16 bit data bus, 24 bit address bus,
32 bit D0-D7, A0-A7 (16 GP registers)
no caches
16*16, 32/16

68EC020 @ 14.32MHz
CISC reg-mem architecture - 32 bit ALU, 32 bit data bus, 24 bit address bus,
32 bit D0-D7, A0-A7 (16 GP registers)
256B ICache
16*16, 32*32, 32/16, 32/32, 64/32

The 68000 is not high performance for it's frequency so the the matchup with the 5A22 is closer than it first appears but the 68000 has a better ISA, nicer features and better code density. The 68EC020 outclasses the 5A22 and should be several times better performance. SNES hardware may be better than ECS but AGA looks more competitive. Maybe the SNES is closer to the performance of a 68000 with AGA?

Hammer Quote:

CBM, AMIGA Technologies GmbH (Escom) and Motorola/Freescale didn't transition 68040 and 68060 into mainstream replacements for 68000 and 68020.


That was part of the problem. CBM, Atari and Apple were buying more of the low end 68k processors making it difficult to mass produce the high end full (not EC or LC) processors. At that time, a processor like the 68060 was too expensive for all but the highest end embedded market which was also buying the lower end 68k processors. Today, the 68060 would be considered low end and in the sweet spot of embedded market demand.

Hammer Quote:

No 68K based platform vendor has transitioned 68040 and 68060 into mainstream replacements for 68000.


Not entirely true. Apple sold a lot of 68040 CPUs. CBM sold some of the low clocked 68040s Apple didn't want. Neither Apple or CBM used the 68060 but Motorola was anti-marketing it for personal computers by that time telling them PPC was the replacement. Ironically, Apple had trouble making a descent early PPC laptop and the 68060 would have been perfect for a laptop.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Back when Ben was the White Knight!
Posted on 1-Jul-2021 8:17:56
#100 ]
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From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

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Dear friends...

OPS LAST EDITED BY MEGA_RJ_MICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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