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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 5-Jul-2021 16:43:43
#61 ]
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BigD 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 5-Jul-2021 17:01:03
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7305
From: UK

@geen_naam

Any ‘reinventing the wheel development’ is just one step above wasting money on court cases. Why don’t they buy out Hyperion and then use the license to start OS4.x development again fully merged with Enhancer software?

Last edited by BigD on 05-Jul-2021 at 05:02 PM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 5-Jul-2021 17:16:42
#63 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1204
From: Unknown

@FairBoy

Quote:
@TRIPOS
Quote:
If they can not surpass MorphOS quality, features etc (which of course they won’t) then what’s the point?

To be fair, they already declassed MorphOS in terms of graphics.


Well, their driver is a stand-alone, third party product. If they bundled it with X5000 for OS4 they could have opted to bundle it with X5000 for MorphOS as well. That’s only one, rather small piece of the OS-puzzle. It’s difficult to understand how they are going to realize this enormous endeavor in a reasonable time frame, staying clear of potential copyright infringements. Surely AROS can’t be the answer to fill all the gaps? Maybe they will simply license parts of MorphOS? After all, MorphOS developers made the X5000 firmware as well as some X5000 device drivers for OS4 I think. And MorphOS is the only Amiga platform with a reasonable 2021 Internet ability, are they really going to undertake that huge effort as well? And SDK? It’s mind-boggling. Very strange.


@Cool_amigaN

Quote:

Cool_amigaN wrote:
I think this is rather big news as it's the first time someone is trying to build a distro out of OS4.1. Also, it shows a clear sign that at least business entity is still willing to invest more on OS4.


This is obviously not an OS4 thing (OS4 is Hyperion). It’s not evolution, it’s re-implementation.


@bison

Quote:
bison wrote:

@Hypex

Quote:
I conclude it is not fully independant nor an alternative OS4 distro.

Yeah, the only way it makes sense is if the intention is to eventually replace the entire OS. I view the current state as a work in progress.


Exactly!

AROS was the first re-implementation, MorphOS the second, OS4 the third. And “AeonKit OS” will be the fourth. Right now their OS puzzle is missing a lot of pieces, hence they have made an installer to fill all the gaps using already existing components from another OS (in this case OS4). Just like MorphOS had to do in early development around year 2000-2001 (and early AROS as well some years before, as well as early OS4 some years later).

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TRIPOS 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 5-Jul-2021 17:32:18
#64 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1204
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@geen_naam

Any ‘reinventing the wheel development’ is just one step above wasting money on court cases. Why don’t they buy out Hyperion and then use the license to start OS4.x development again fully merged with Enhancer software?


1st reason is probably because Ben Hermans will ask a humongous sum of money for it. And that sum does only in part reflect the value of the OS itself, a great deal of it will be to recover what Ben Hermans sees as debts that Hyperion has to him personally, he will undoubtedly want to collect that money when selling Hyperion.

2nd reason is probably because OS4 (and OS3.2 etc) was built using Olsen’s port/rewrite of the old Commodore/Amiga source code, so it’s “polluted” with copyrights now belonging to Amiga Corp that they won’t have control over.

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BSzili 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 5-Jul-2021 19:13:17
#65 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 447
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
1st reason is probably because Ben Hermans will ask a humongous sum of money for it. And that sum does only in part reflect the value of the OS itself, a great deal of it will be to recover what Ben Hermans sees as debts that Hyperion has to him personally, he will undoubtedly want to collect that money when selling Hyperion.
(...)


I bet this already happened behind the scenes.

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cgutjahr 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 5-Jul-2021 19:27:40
#66 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@geen_naam

Quote:

So I'm looking forward to this new development. Curious about the mentioned development on the 2d front.

AOENkit bought the rights to Aladdin 4D, announced a LibreOffice port in 2012 and bought and updated a 25 year old 8-bit paint program just to ask Aminet to remove the free version from the net so they could sell their update commercially.

I don't want to sound too harsh when judging their ability to manage large software projects, but... ROTFLOL.

Also, do you honestly believe that there's enough customers left to finance the development of both stupid hardware and a new OS? Keep in mind that the end result will likely not be called "Amiga" or "Amiga[something]" (not for lack of trying - but Battilana seems to be willing to defend his marks).

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 5-Jul-2021 20:37:56
#67 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12791
From: Norway

@geen_naam

I hope we won’t see too few developers taking on too many projects again, developers burn out that way and quit, and customers get angry when things are not delivered.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 05-Jul-2021 at 08:38 PM.

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matthey 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 5-Jul-2021 20:59:23
#68 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1966
From: Kansas

TRIPOS Quote:

AROS was the first re-implementation, MorphOS the second, OS4 the third. And “AeonKit OS” will be the fourth. Right now their OS puzzle is missing a lot of pieces, hence they have made an installer to fill all the gaps using already existing components from another OS (in this case OS4). Just like MorphOS had to do in early development around year 2000-2001 (and early AROS as well some years before, as well as early OS4 some years later).


What about ARP?

https://aminet.net/package/misc/antiq/ARP_13

ARP is only a partial re-implementation of parts of AmigaOS but that is what the AmigaKit distribution is currently. What ARP lacked in completeness it made up for in influence as most of the enhancements were adopted into AmigaOS.

AmigaKit could try to use their "Amiga Kit" trade marks to call the new OS "AmigaKit OS" claiming the age of their trade marks give them squatter's rights of a sort. This could easily result in lawsuits too. AmigaKit has "AmiBench" trade marked which may be intended as the new name for Workbench.

The sane business heads among Amiga Corporation, A-Eon, Amiga Kit and Hyperion need to sit down and decide what to do together. Going in different directions and stepping on each other's feet is inefficient and causing problems. Even without the, "None shall pass" black knight at Hyperion, the resources of Amiga Corporation, A-Eon and Amiga Kit are stronger together. Again I suggest considering a possible merger, likely as Amiga Corporation and with no shareholder having majority control. There likely needs to remain two branches of AmigaOS, one for low end devices currently represented by AmigaOS 3 and one for high end computing that hopefully could be fully modernized and is represented by AmigaOS 4. All will be for not unless the Amiga market can be expanded. This likely requires affordable hardware which is appealing to non-Amiga users. The current business models are broken or dying so try something else. This may require raising capital but without it there is just milking the last of a sick and dying cow like Hyperion is doing.

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abalaban 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 5-Jul-2021 21:29:26
#69 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Oct-2004
Posts: 1114
From: France

@Hypex

I do not read PPC asm, but no need to examine assembler to understand what is behind IExec->DebugPrintF.
You need to access the address behind IExec at offset represented by DebugPrintF (first indirection) just to find the address of the actual code to call. This second address is probably what is referred to as the second indirection but in fact it is not, it is the effective call jump. Else this would mean that using a pointer to function is an indirection (which is not).so there is one indirection VS no indirection and everybody can understand that doing one operation cannot be faster than not doing it, but how this translate to user day to day usage is something else and after all this is just "jump and execute the code at the address found in address X" which is a common use case IMHO.

The interface pointer being *automatically* and *implicitly* passed to the function is something only relevant to library implementors and is exactly what existed back in 68k with the library base address automatically loaded in register. So no real news except it is passed on via the stack instead of registers...

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eliyahu 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 5-Jul-2021 21:48:16
#70 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1956
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@cgutjahr

Quote:
AOENkit bought the rights to Aladdin 4D, announced a LibreOffice port in 2012 and bought and updated a 25 year old 8-bit paint program just to ask Aminet to remove the free version from the net so they could sell their update commercially.

I don't think that's quite fair. Andy made quite a few nice improvements to Personal Paint, not the least of which was a native PPC build which runs quite nicely on my AOS4 machines. And the LibreOffice situation is more complicated than you might imagine. There's plenty of reasonable criticism to be made, but not on those two points -- at least IMO.

-- eliyahu

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cgutjahr 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 5-Jul-2021 23:35:48
#71 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

Quote:

Andy made quite a few nice improvements to Personal Paint

It's an 8 bit paint program that already ran on OS4 (might have been on my BlizzardPPC not on the SAM - can't remember). I can imagine more worthwhile things for Andy to work on than that.

The only reason that commercial update happened was that they probably could get the rights for cheap. And to maximize profits, they tried to get the free version off the net.

Quote:

And the LibreOffice situation is more complicated than you might imagine

Thank god developing a commercial OS project from scratch isn't "complicated"...

How many status updates regarding the LibreOffice project did we get in the last nine years?

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eliyahu 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 5-Jul-2021 23:41:39
#72 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1956
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@cgutjahr

Quote:
It's an 8 bit paint program that already ran on OS4 (might have been on my BlizzardPPC not on the SAM - can't remember). I can imagine more worthwhile things for Andy to work on than that.

Fair enough. But it happens to be my favorite color paint program, and I'm delighted with what he did. It's fast, stable, works with high resolutions; I'm very pleased with my purchase. So that's at least one satisfied customer.

Quote:
The only reason that commercial update happened was that they probably could get the rights for cheap. And to maximize profits, they tried to get the free version off the net.

I have no idea as to why they decided to fund an update. But it's hardly surprising that the owner would prefer it be distributed under its own aegis. Haven't other software developers requested their software be removed from Aminet before?

Quote:
Thank god developing a commercial OS project from scratch isn't "complicated"... How many status updates regarding the LibreOffice project did we get in the last nine years?

I understand this sentiment. I just think that there was intervening issues of which you are not aware that explains why this is so. In any case I have hopes for LibreOffice on Amiga. If it doesn't happen, we have productivity software that I'm happy to use for personal purposes. It just doesn't cut it for working on documents shared with mainstream platform users. LibreOffice would solve that, at least for me.

-- eliyahu

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thinkchip 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 6-Jul-2021 3:39:46
#73 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 1183
From: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

I think they should discontinue backward compatibility of OS4.x. It is holding it back. That would make it a lot like a new operating system.

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davidf215 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 6-Jul-2021 4:27:54
#74 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2010
Posts: 95
From: Texas

@Cheese

Perhaps it's the beginning of AOS5. The talk of from the ground up does seem to suggest they are working to replace components of AOS4. Maybe they are progressing similarly to the way the Haiku team did such that components of the original OS (BeOS), were reverse engineered and replaced over time.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 6-Jul-2021 5:27:08
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12791
From: Norway

@thinkchip

Far from it, the implementation is lazy, it should be improved, if ExecSG 4.2 supported more classic software its appeal should be a lot bigger.

It’s absolutely possible to get NallePuh working, with a bit of work, or add alle the DBPAL, DBNTSC, PRODUCTIVITY modes that are missing, etc.

I wont AllocVec() to be removed from obsolete list, and I wont chip memory to be respected.

And I like it to be safely patch the chipset address spaces

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Jul-2021 at 07:08 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Jul-2021 at 07:07 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Jul-2021 at 06:34 AM.

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AP 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 6-Jul-2021 5:49:15
#76 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 617
From: Vienna/Austria

@geen_naam

Quote:

If you only focus on what goes wrong. You miss out on what's actually delivered while rolling on the floor.


True. Also he has no clue if the Enhancer-development-team is handled professional or not. I didn't notice his name on the betatester-list by now.

Last edited by AP on 06-Jul-2021 at 05:52 AM.
Last edited by AP on 06-Jul-2021 at 05:49 AM.

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Trixie 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 6-Jul-2021 6:30:50
#77 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2089
From: Czech Republic

@cgutjahr

Quote:
Thank god developing a commercial OS project from scratch isn't "complicated"...

Remember that the information about A-EON developing "their own operating system" is still based on speculation.

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FairBoy 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 6-Jul-2021 8:10:54
#78 ]
Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2020
Posts: 76
From: Unknown

@Trixie
Quote:
@cgutjahr
Quote:
Thank god developing a commercial OS project from scratch isn't "complicated"...

Remember that the information about A-EON developing "their own operating system" is still based on speculation.

His very own speculation, to be precise and fair.

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agami 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 6-Jul-2021 8:46:45
#79 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1632
From: Melbourne, Australia

@BigD

Quote:
Why don’t they buy out Hyperion

Because Hyperion's sell price is too high. It actually costs less money to develop/implement a different OS for the A-Eon HW. Though of course it takes a lot of time.

That said, I'm here for it. Bring it on. If I were running A-Eon, I would've looked to distance myself from Hyperion and their courtroom ways, way back when. It doesn't pay to have your business hitched to an entity that doesn't share your vision.

I would've gone down the AROS path. It's OK to have MorphOS compatible HW: It increases the target market. But if I wanted more control over the overall experience, and if I wanted to get some form of SMP or AMP into the OS so that the developers and users can take better advantage of the HW I'm producing, then I'd get an A-Eon AROS distro going.

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agami 
Re: A-EON is internally testing Alpha releases of their own operating system
Posted on 6-Jul-2021 8:51:57
#80 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1632
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Rose

Quote:
Amiga Liberation Front of Cardiff OS 4.2

Or is it Cardiff Liberation Front for Amiga?

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