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      /  What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
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Poll : Continue to build new PPC hardware?
Become a retro platform with Raspberry Pi or other hardware?
Port to x86 or ARM and get a new mobo etc.
Switch to unix/linux core asap and build great Amiga like experience and call it AmigaX?
 
PosterThread
agami 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 23-Nov-2021 7:11:07
#61 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 721
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Hondo

What would I accept (wish/dream) as the next Amiga?
I voted for the third option as it represents the closest option to how I would like to see the Amiga spirit empower computing in the first half of 21C. Let me elaborate:

While I am happy with, and a consumer of what's happening in the Vampire 68080+SAGA stream, and I would love to see it go much further, I consider it an extension/continuation of what the original Amiga was, and would therefore not consider it as the "next" Amiga.

Furthermore, and I know this is anathema for many, I would not care if the next Amiga would have the Amiga branding. It's hard enough starting a new platform, and unless there were hundreds of millions of dollars in funding, I would hate to see $20M+ wasted on trademarks and licensing rights.

In many ways, what I would accept as the next Amiga, would be more like the daughter of Amiga, so from here on in instead of constantly typing "next Amiga" I will use the term Mija (Miha).

As I mentioned in post #47, I think it's important to consider the entire platform, and not just one piece of it e.g. motherboard, ISA, OS, etc. Based on the collation of my personal research and that of many others over the past 20 years, there is about 10% of the global personal computing market (from combined segments) that would choose a third player if it delivered what the other two were not delivering. It's important to note that Linux distributions are generally not considered to be a commercial personal computing option.

No new platform can expect to immediately gain 10%, but it is there for the taking if they can address the needs of the different segments. For me, Mija would be capable of of grabbing 1% of the global personal computing market within 5 years. The "how" exactly this could be achieved is a topic for another discussion, but Mija will not be able to do this without having the following:

- Flexible hardware options in terms of price and performance, and definitely laptop options
- A modern kernel with support for 32/64bit processors, process scheduler supporting SMP/SMT/AMP/Big-Little architectures, secure memory management, hypervisor, and flexible file-system and driver management system
- Scalable object oriented libraries and APIs for all systems and subsystems
- An extensible and pluggable presentation and interaction layer
- A Flexible automation framework with intuitive scripting language and UI
- A rich SDK with intuitive workflows for new and younger developers
- An App Store for paid + free apps, games, and dev components

Bare minimum applications: Up to date web browser, email client, video-conferencing client + to get the ball rolling:
- At least 1 killer app for the podcasting/vlogging/streaming audience that showcases the user friendliness and creative flexibility
- At least 1 exclusive online fun and addictive multiplayer game that is open to modding using Mija's super intuitive SDK
- At least 1 port of a Linux creative app that looks and operates way better on a Mija system

Initially, the Mija system would not be targeting Pro users. Instead, it's raison d'ętre would be to help average users create Pro results. It will be more intuitive than Windows, macOS or any Linux distro, it will cost less to accomplish the same work on either a Windows compatible or Apple system, and it will carry on the management flexibility and the "user-first" philosophy of the original Amiga OS.

I apologize for the long post. What can I say, I'm passionate about this topic.

Last edited by agami on 23-Nov-2021 at 07:13 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 23-Nov-2021 8:45:01
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5978
From: Unknown

@agami

That sounds good... where do you get the millions of dollars you need to implement that all including killer apps?

I am more pragmatic... we have a current state. There are certain projects in development like emu68 that offer certain perspectives. Both hardware and software. On that I build up my ideas and expectations. Everything else is just daydreaming. The big investors that "make Amiga great again" will not come. Sorry for too much realism.

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dipsomania 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 23-Nov-2021 10:57:22
#63 ]
Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2014
Posts: 14
From: London

I agree.

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 23-Nov-2021 18:02:10
#64 ]
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Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 532
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

@dipsomania

EMBRACE ME COMRADE

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ppcamiga1 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 23-Nov-2021 20:14:37
#65 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 407
From: Unknown

@agami

I expect that after switch to little endian cpu and breaking compatibility,
Amiga like solution be no more than twenty years behind mainstream.
We have year 2021 twenty year ago was year 2001.
In year 2001 were relased Mac Os X and Windows XP.
Since year 2001 everybody outside Amiga asylum use Windows or Unix.
Everything else is considered outdated and weird.

Either We should stay "retro" and use real or fpga 68k or ppc.
Either Amiga solutions on x86 or arm should provide speed and comfort that rest of world has twenty years ago.

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BigD 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 23-Nov-2021 21:02:07
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6039
From: UK

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
Either We should stay "retro" and use real or fpga 68k or ppc.
Either Amiga solutions on x86 or arm should provide speed and comfort that rest of world has twenty years ago.


Yes, retro and 68k all the way but also an Arm port of the AmigaOne OS please. In fact, why not call it that and leave AmigaOS with the legal entity known as Hyperion?

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agami 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 3:26:39
#67 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 721
From: Melbourne, Australia

@OlafS25

Quote:
That sounds good... where do you get the millions of dollars you need to implement that all including killer apps?

As I said, the "how" is a separate conversation. Here I am outlining what I would accept as the "next Amiga". I'm just answering the question.

Everything else that is going on in the Amiga retro/revival ecosystem is nice, but I will never consider any of those efforts as the "next Amiga".

I'm not as impractical as you might think. A lot of thought has been put in behind the scenes.
If you're curious, the numbers I've put together suggest that it would take an investment of about $20M USD to get my version of a 3rd commercial personal computing platform to a point where it becomes self funding.

The global personal computing market is worth $160B+. At 0.5% market penetration, the platform would potentially bring in $800M.

Last edited by agami on 24-Nov-2021 at 03:42 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 9:43:34
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5978
From: Unknown

@agami

then make a business-plan and offer it investors. First big step is already done obviously by collecting numbers and make calculations.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 24-Nov-2021 at 10:45 AM.

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amigang 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 13:08:42
#69 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1729
From: Cheshire, England

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
JIT for UAE is avaible since august year 2000. It results in nothing.
Twenty one years of nothing.


I know I should not feed the troll, but I make this point one last time,

Cloanto who now owns the Amiga, made its money largely from selling a Emulation Package, this result in them spending money to improve emulation, for them to say involved in the Amiga market, they help fund some Amiga shows, it did not result to nothing!

Hyperion have made quite a few sales of OS4 Classic PPC & OS3.1.4/OS3.2 to the Emulation market. More money and sales means more development, result is not nothing!

The Emulation tech is starting to help to produce low cost add on cards like Pistorm, result is not Nothing

Having Amiga emulation on every platform has likely made a few new fans or people interested in checking out the Amiga platform, result again is not nothing!

Its now creating new commercial ventures by Retro Game ltd in its A500 mini product, result Amiga back on the high street.

Emulation help me experience a graphics card Amiga, making me want to get back to Amiga and keeping me a fan of the platform, when I was off it.

To say it results in Nothing, is a very short sighted and narrow view.
I wont reply again to @ppcamiga1 in this thread anyway.

Last edited by amigang on 24-Nov-2021 at 01:16 PM.
Last edited by amigang on 24-Nov-2021 at 01:14 PM.
Last edited by amigang on 24-Nov-2021 at 01:12 PM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 18:24:03
#70 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 407
From: Unknown

@amigang

Nobody sane will develop for emulator.
It is obvious and twenty one year of JIT in uae is best prof.

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 24-Nov-2021 at 06:24 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 21:01:56
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5978
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

nobody sane would develop for any niche. And nobody sane would care about it. Why are you here? Sane?

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BigD 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 21:12:18
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6039
From: UK

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
Nobody sane will develop for emulator.


Just to clarify are you only arguing for the status quo with PPC as the only way forward? It hasn't served us well up to now!

68k is gaining traction while PPC stumbles and the chip foundries stop making them! Where is the Tabor and when do we think it'll be out? By comparison we know there is an A500 Mini (Arm 68k/Amiga Custom Chip emulation) and incoming PiStorm (RPI 68k emulation) and Apollo IceDrake A1200 boards (Apollo 080 core 68k extension and SAGA)! I believe they will be delivered in early 2022 and they will further reinvigorate the 68k market whether you consider it obsolete or not!

Suck it up that it's nearly 2022 and 68k is booming while PPC fades away! Also, people ARE developing on emulators and the games/apps are being run on both real Amiga and emulators! It's never been this good in 20 years!

Last edited by BigD on 24-Nov-2021 at 09:36 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 24-Nov-2021 at 09:35 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 21:32:36
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5978
From: Unknown

@BigD

+1

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BigD 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 21:57:24
#74 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6039
From: UK

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
... open source, hardware agnostic


Oh, I see that you are evangelising for AROS! Go ahead and use it then! Just don't expect it to gain much widespread traction!

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BigD 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 22:03:40
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6039
From: UK

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
Something like Mac Os X is the only way forward.


Why create an Amiga version of Unix when you can just use macOS with an Amiga emulator if you want that?

68k developments are progressing on branching paths apart from AROS and Unix your hardware agnostic and "only way forward" options!

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OlafS25 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 22:12:38
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5978
From: Unknown

@BigD

You know Aros?

http://www.aros-platform.de/ADFmount.png

Last edited by OlafS25 on 24-Nov-2021 at 10:15 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 24-Nov-2021 at 10:14 PM.

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BigD 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 22:18:38
#77 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6039
From: UK

@OlafS25

Not really but it seems to be what ppcamiga1 is looking for! If an open source and hardware agnostic solution is what he is looking for then it is surely the answer no?

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OlafS25 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 22:35:49
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5978
From: Unknown

@BigD

it is not hardware agnostic and will never be

every platform needs its own driver and optimizations. 68k is very different from ARM or X86. And ARM or X86 also have very different requirements with very different hardware. Something "hardware diagnostic" would need drivers for almost any hardware on the world. Not even Linux is able to do that. Impossible.

It is open source and adaptable and source compatible. And in case of Aros 68k it is binary compatible and can be combined with most of the 68k amiga components and software. Not more, not less.,

With the right and optimized desktop it feels like amiga. Basically it is the implementation of 3.1 API + RTG + Network + USB

Last edited by OlafS25 on 24-Nov-2021 at 10:40 PM.

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bison 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 22:46:27
#79 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1959
From: N-Space

@BigD

Quote:
Not really but it seems to be what ppcamiga1 is looking for! If an open source and hardware agnostic solution is what he is looking for then it is surely the answer no?

It's not the same thing. AROS hosted is a client OS (AROS) hosted by another OS (Linux). What @ppcamiga1 is banging on about is an Amiga windowing system (Intuition) running directly on Unix or Linux. So it's this:

Linux => Intuition

not this:

Linux => AROS => Intuition

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OlafS25 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 22:54:37
#80 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5978
From: Unknown

@bison

Michal has his "Arix project" that seems to be a little like what ppcamiga1 wants... the merge of amiga (in this case Aros) and Unix. It would be something really new despite being much easier to port amiga software to it. But even he is for the near future more interested in the "old stuff" (68k). Many of the old NG developers (if not left the platform at all) returned to 68k. It is our common old world with its own attraction. For job and work we certainly all use modern stuff. For me Amiga (or in my case Aros) is relaxation because it is much simpler than the stuff I normally work with. And I am there certainly not the only one.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 24-Nov-2021 at 10:58 PM.

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