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      /  What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
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Poll : Continue to build new PPC hardware?
Become a retro platform with Raspberry Pi or other hardware?
Port to x86 or ARM and get a new mobo etc.
Switch to unix/linux core asap and build great Amiga like experience and call it AmigaX?
 
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Hondo 
What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 17-Nov-2021 7:50:03
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1365
From: Denmark

The Amiga way of life has had a hard time the last 25 years, and I'm sure we can all agree, that none of the initiatives has really expanded the universe as much as it truly deserves.

There has been many good visions and projects through the times - AmigaAnywhere, Linux port, AmigaOne, Pegasos, AmigaOS4, AROS, MORPHOS, X1000, X5000, A1222, WAMPIRE, CUSA, etc. - and all of these initiatives have kept the Amiga torch alive until today.

But now we need to look forward, and take the next step for the Amiga universe and the Amiga community. So as Onetimer1 said in another thread:

What would you accept (wish or dream of) as the next Amiga decades comes to us?

You can start by vote on the 3 options, and/or tell us about your vision or dream for the Amiga platform/community.

EDIT: I wanted to make a poll where you could choose: Continue PPC hardware line, but the system took it as a poll title...damn - and of course no edit functionality in polls.

Last edited by Hondo on 17-Nov-2021 at 07:57 AM.
Last edited by Hondo on 17-Nov-2021 at 07:54 AM.
Last edited by Hondo on 17-Nov-2021 at 07:53 AM.

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BigD 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 17-Nov-2021 12:38:06
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5938
From: UK

@Hondo

It's probably good PPC isn't a poll option as it's not going to be a real option beyond one more extended generation of A-EON hardware and maybe a bonus open source laptop! But yes, a port to the laptop and another high end machine after the Tabor should be released and definitely the X5000/40!

If this is achieved I'd consider a purchase otherwise RPi accelerators for 68k and transition to stand alone machines with an AmigaOS Arm port plus the A500 Mini is the way to go IMHO. This will boost Amiga interest and keep the party going!

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Lou 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 17-Nov-2021 15:37:37
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4121
From: Rhode Island

100% port to RPi4

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bison 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 17-Nov-2021 16:35:58
#4 ]
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1903
From: N-Space

@Hondo

I voted #3, but why call it AmigaX? Presumably any new project on Unix/Linux would use Wayland, not X11.

Last edited by bison on 17-Nov-2021 at 04:38 PM.
Last edited by bison on 17-Nov-2021 at 04:36 PM.

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Turrican3 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 17-Nov-2021 17:24:39
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 355
From: Italy

@Hondo

ACCEPT:
Port to RaspberryPi ASAP and build a decent userbase with cheap, more or less standardized hardware.

Then, and only then, assuming numbers are there, you can start thinking about more expensive route(s).


DREAM:
Build a state of the art, affordable, full custom hybrid computer/game machine comparable to the original Amiga in terms of power and innovation.

Ok this isn't happening of course, especially with a hugely crowded market where even Microsoft can't dethrone Sony... but a man can always dream, right?

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Hondo 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 17-Nov-2021 17:32:01
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1365
From: Denmark

@bison

I didn't think about X11 or Wayland - just thought that AmigaX sounded better, fresher, modern, and energetic compared to AmigaOS - with a slight hint towards unix.

Last edited by Hondo on 17-Nov-2021 at 05:42 PM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 17-Nov-2021 17:34:29
#7 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 351
From: Unknown

Changes should solve problems.
Not to preserve old problems and add new one.
emu68k, buffy, aros on x86/arm all this little endian crap is not acceptable.
After breaking compatybility problems with
- memory protection
- drivers
- unix compatibility
- smp
- mixing 32/64 bit code
should be solved.
And of course new Amiga solution should be open source and hardware agnostic.
No more problems with hardware.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 17-Nov-2021 18:28:15
#8 ]
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Samurai_Crow 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 17-Nov-2021 19:44:55
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2308
From: Minnesota, USA

@Hondo

How about an ARM based compute module with an FPGA on the host board? The variety of Compute Modules like the RasPi compute module 4 make system configuration a very flexible option for system builders while the FPGA can run a Minimig or similar core to pass into the camera inputs of the RasPi CM4 series compute module. There's not even a supply issue for compute modules because Pine64 is making their own compute module called the SO-Quartz that is pinout compatible with the RasPi CM4 series but using a later model RockChip SoC.

Re:Endians on ARM and PPC

ARM can run big-endian code almost as easily as PPC can run little-endians. The PPC has 2 sets of loads and stores for big and little-endians respectively while ARM has an opcode that allows the memory accesses to use ARMeb big-endian mode and back to ARM little-endian.

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redfox 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 17-Nov-2021 20:25:35
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1873
From: Canada

I withdraw my comment.

Last edited by redfox on 17-Nov-2021 at 11:05 PM.
Last edited by redfox on 17-Nov-2021 at 08:48 PM.
Last edited by redfox on 17-Nov-2021 at 08:47 PM.
Last edited by redfox on 17-Nov-2021 at 08:46 PM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 17-Nov-2021 20:37:26
#11 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 351
From: Unknown

@Samurai_Crow

repeating what phase5 do twenty five years ago with ppc but now with arm
is irritating and stupid.
It is time to move to something fast, decent, open source, hardware agnostic.

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matthey 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 17-Nov-2021 22:21:59
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1213
From: Kansas

ppcamiga1 Quote:

repeating what phase5 do twenty five years ago with ppc but now with arm
is irritating and stupid.
It is time to move to something fast, decent, open source, hardware agnostic.


Samurai_Crow Quote:

AmigaDE! /me ducks


Amiga Everywhere then Amiga Anywhere and finally Amiga Nowhere. The final hardware agnostic solution. All it needs is more virtual optimization for a virtual Amiga earning virtual money. The ultimate hypothetical hyperbole Amiga project to solve all Amiga problems because the Phase5 strategy was nothing compared to the Amiga Inc. strategy. Why have a little abstraction in a realistic world when you can have ludicrous levels of abstraction in Amiga Never Land?

Last edited by matthey on 17-Nov-2021 at 10:50 PM.

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QBit 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 17-Nov-2021 23:04:50
#13 ]
Member
Joined: 15-Jun-2018
Posts: 25
From: Unknown

I want an Amiga Culture Revolution lead by Mao Tse Tung.. Bring Amiga to China!

Any Chinese shall know Amiga!

Last edited by QBit on 17-Nov-2021 at 11:07 PM.

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Valiant 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 17-Nov-2021 23:07:58
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Oct-2003
Posts: 1103
From: West of Eden, VT USA

@BigD

Unless an Amiga laptop comes about, the X5000/40 will probably be the last h/w I will buy. After that I'll just use the best emulator that's available.

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kolla 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 18-Nov-2021 1:17:54
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote:
Amiga Everywhere then Amiga Anywhere and finally Amiga Nowhere. The final hardware agnostic solution. All it needs is more virtual optimization for a virtual Amiga earning virtual money. The ultimate hypothetical hyperbole Amiga project to solve all Amiga problems because the Phase5 strategy was nothing compared to the Amiga Inc. strategy. Why have a little abstraction in a realistic world when you can have ludicrous levels of abstraction in Amiga Never Land?


Refreshing, coming from you! :D

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ppcamiga1 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 18-Nov-2021 7:30:44
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 351
From: Unknown

@matthey

too much hassle
Amiga gui and graphics on top unix will be just ok

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amigang 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 18-Nov-2021 11:19:47
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1676
From: Cheshire, England

So in a fantasy world I would love another option outside of Windows, Mac and Linux. I would love that to be Amiga, but know it not likely to happen with out some billionaire coming along.

Realistic point of view I feel targeting low cost hardware like the Pi is likely the best market to go for now, Amiga with its lack of development of the high end tech, doesn't need multi core support, doesn't need high end hardware to do all the stuff it can do, Amikit XE kind proved this to me, with it running things like Hollywood as well as my X1000 does!

So my dream is kinda this,

and i think I plan to build something like this when ever the Pi5 / Pi500 comes outs as that point i hope Amiberry will be better, JIT ARM will be improved, faster base pi hardware will allow the Rabbit hole part to run quicker and i might be able to use this as maybe my main machine, when 90% of what I do is either, coding, basic photo editing, web work, youtube surfing and retro gaming.

The great thing about the Amiga community is no longer do we have to wait for the legal Amiga owners to pull there act together, this can be done today! Largely thanks to community efforts which is great, just a shame as if it was all legally supported and OS was ported official to it, it would be a even better product and I think would help the Amiga community.

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matthey 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 18-Nov-2021 20:33:29
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1213
From: Kansas

amigang Quote:

So in a fantasy world I would love another option outside of Windows, Mac and Linux. I would love that to be Amiga, but know it not likely to happen with out some billionaire coming along.


Most of us would like to see an Amiga option. I don't think it would require a billionaire either. The original Amiga required roughly $50 million to bring to market which would be a lot of money today. Development and production costs of hardware have dropped precipitously though. Fabless semiconductor companies have started with a fraction of that and often turned out to be good investments. The last attempt at a new desktop OS by a company that I can think of was BeOS from Be Inc. in the '90s which was a failure with the OS eventually ending up in the hands of Access Co. for embedded use. Be Inc. had an embedded OS called BeIA so it didn't bet the farm on a desktop OS.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010608090423/http://www.be.com/products/ Quote:

BeIA delivers a responsive user experience and the kind of stable environment that consumers have come to expect from traditional home appliances. We offer vendors the ability to completely customize an Internet appliance's user interface, so they can create an experience and image appropriate for their target environment. Using BeIA, an Internet device will feature instant-on capabilities to eliminate start-up and connection delays, native TCP/IP networking to guarantee reliable performance in both broadband and narrowband applications, a modular architecture so that vendors can easily create customized implementations, and support for both x86 and PowerPC processors.

...

BeIA Hardware Requirements
Processors - x86 (Pentium-class or better), PowerPC (all)
Storage - 8MB of persistent storage (such as Compact Flash)
Memory - 32MB RAM
Display options - VGA, SVGA, television
Peripheral types - USB, IEEE 1394, serial, parallel


That was nothing the 68k Amiga could have done with half as much memory. At least Be Inc. management saw the IoT (Internet of Things) coming, perhaps too early, where CBM management was oblivious. There were companies, with ex-Amiga employees, who tried to acquire the AmigaOS after the demise of CBM for embedded use as well. Trying to conquer the desktop OS market with a direct assault is suicide even with the best desktop OS in the world.

amigang Quote:

Realistic point of view I feel targeting low cost hardware like the Pi is likely the best market to go for now, Amiga with its lack of development of the high end tech, doesn't need multi core support, doesn't need high end hardware to do all the stuff it can do, Amikit XE kind proved this to me, with it running things like Hollywood as well as my X1000 does!


Yea, the Amiga seems more at home on minimalist hardware because the AmigaOS is minimalist. Desktop OSs can't scale down to minimalist 68k AmigaOS specs. Cheaper hardware can be used for the AmigaOS and still provides a usable system.

amigang Quote:

So my dream is kinda this,
https://amigang.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/assets.newatlas.com_.jpg
and i think I plan to build something like this when ever the Pi5 / Pi500 comes outs as that point i hope Amiberry will be better, JIT ARM will be improved, faster base pi hardware will allow the Rabbit hole part to run quicker and i might be able to use this as maybe my main machine, when 90% of what I do is either, coding, basic photo editing, web work, youtube surfing and retro gaming.

The great thing about the Amiga community is no longer do we have to wait for the legal Amiga owners to pull there act together, this can be done today! Largely thanks to community efforts which is great, just a shame as if it was all legally supported and OS was ported official to it, it would be a even better product and I think would help the Amiga community.


Emulation of the 68k on a Raspberry Pi may be an upgrade to many Amiga users but it is a down grade to most people already using a Raspberry Pi as they lose 2/3 of their processing power on a core. Emulation, virtual cores and more levels of abstraction reduce the performance, footprint and power efficiency advantages of the AmigaOS. The Raspberry Pi shows how cheap it is to produce hardware so why not make hardware for the AmigaOS which retains advantages? A retro Amiga in an Amiga 1200 case like you have pictured would likely sale well. The Amiga 1200 styled case would likely cost more to produce than the hardware. Well, the Raspberry Pi 400 keyboard case costs less than the hardware but it is of cheaper quality than I would want to use everyday. The Raspberry Pi Foundation is the modern smarter CBM equivalent while the modern Amiga is a desktop wannabe.

Last edited by matthey on 18-Nov-2021 at 10:49 PM.

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amigang 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 18-Nov-2021 23:14:51
#19 ]
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Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1676
From: Cheshire, England

@matthey

Quote:
Emulation of the 68k on a Raspberry Pi may be an upgrade to many Amiga users but it is a down grade to most people already using a Raspberry Pi as they lose 2/3 of their processing power on a core.


Yes but your missing one big part of this, many are not even aware an Amiga desktop can look like this and do the stuff it can do in the Os, a fairly big part of retro scene only even remember the Amiga as a games machine. The Os if they remember it, many will think of it as a boring, plan grey and blue desktop, I shown a few friends what a modern Amiga looks like and they kinda blown away by the customisation you can do.

Plus the in Amiga terms its fast vs Pi terms its slow, well actually i played with a few linux pi images and I tell you some of them are very slow, where simple things like open a folder and the window will slowly renders in, I question why they are on pi hardware when the gui struggles to runs.

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OlafS25 
Re: What would you accept (wish or dream of) as next Amiga?
Posted on 18-Nov-2021 23:49:48
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5934
From: Unknown

@amigang

I think emu68 as base of a 68k system on RPi would be really nice with good hardware at unbeatable low price, even without chipset. It should be very very fast, expecially compared to something heavy running on it. It would be a nice option for amiga user and it could create interest outside the typical amiga camp. In this sense I see it very positive.

@Matthey

I know we disagree about where the platform should go. Finally you need developers who do it. Either they do it for fun or for money (or both). The fastest way would be to pay developers for it but that would cost a lot of money. For that you need investors giving you the money. I would like to know how you would like to persuade investors to give you the money and where it differentiates from competing much bigger platforms. Why do you think people would be interested in such a system and spend money for it? That are questions people would ask you. I am skeptical there. Amiga today is retro, as I said 68k and topics like gaming fit in that context and 68k Aros running on RPi would be very nice and hopefully create more interest. There is a lot of development in the 68k market today. I see a healthy growing retro market as a big chance. Everything else is pure dreaming.

BTW in the survey is "become a retro platform" is wrong, Amiga today IS retro.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 18-Nov-2021 at 11:54 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 18-Nov-2021 at 11:51 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 18-Nov-2021 at 11:50 PM.

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